My Fan is Too Loud!

Gilby

Senior member
May 12, 2001
753
0
76
Just picked up a new (to me) board, chip, hs and fan. I'm cooling a 2600+ mobile with a Thermalright 947u and a Vantec Tornado 92mm Fan....

...Now I'd heard people complain about noisy fans before, but figured it was no big deal. Nothing I've had previously seemed too loud for me, including my 4-fan PSU. But this thing's unbelievable. It may help when my new case arrives tomorrow and I can actually close it up, but I can't see it helping that much.

So. Suggestions on making things quiter? Maybe another, quieter 92mm fan? Or perhaps a fan controller just for this fan--that would allow me to turn it back up if I want to do more than the minor OCing I currently am.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
Gilby, ma man!! You have had the Vantec Tornado experience!!

Does it "moan" at 3,000 rpm? Does it "roar" at 5,000 (or its officially rated 4,800 rpm)?

Still, a helluva fan at 119 CFM at the top end!!

I still have two of these things -- one new in the carton and the other used for about a month before I replaced it. And I still believe they have some effective and strategic use. Believe it or not, I am contemplating the replacement of a fairly quiet Silverstone 120mm with a Vantec, as it will be the only high-CFM fan I can use with an XP90 cooler, and the XP 90 is the only ThermalRight that will fit the motherboard in question.

You might try a couple of things. First, use silly-cone-rubber fan grommets to deaden the vibration traveling through your CPU heatsink. Second, buy $10 worth of AKasa PaxMate Noise-deadener foam, cut a 38mm thickness of it that is (92 X 4)mm long, and wrap that sucker!!

Next, you might try building a blowhole duct that has a bend in it, so that it draws air from -- say-- the case rear-exterior. Anything but channeling the sound directly through a side-panel intake port.

And -- hey -- since you might buy the PaxMate foam sheets with adhesive backing, consider using it as it was originally intended and covering your side panels. That at least causes the Vantec noise to cease bouncing around inside your case.

There are other 92mm fans "out there", but I'm afraid that most people gravitate toward "silent" solutions that have lackluster throughput. However, the Zalman 92mm fan is as quiet as a churchmouse and spins up to 3,000 rpm -- they just don't tell you its rated throughput. The ThermalTake Blue LED 92mm fan has a variable speed that delivers nearly 3,600 rpm and something like 78 CFM. The noisier TT solution is the 92mm "UFO" fan, replete with dual-colored LED lights and an innovative intake vent design that the makers boast increases throughput -- it moves about 81 CFM. But it -- more than the Blue LED -- has a motor-whine at its top end.

Given the throughput, I really think you should try noise-muffling solutions for the Vantec before replacing it.
 

Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,508
0
0
Tt fans are junk, don't waste your time. Sounded deading material has very negligible affect and is the last thing to look at when attempting to lower the noise of a PC.

A "L" series Panaflow will give you plenty of air flow for that chip if you really want more there are the "M" and "H" series.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Man, you started with the loudest fan you could possibly buy! I have had luck with 92mm Enermax fans with variable resistor attached to them. Also, 92mm Panaflo M1A @ 7V, or Panaflo L1A 92mm
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
I've had noticeable improvement in reducing noise using the sound-deadening pads. The Vantec is the only fan of its size which delivers nearly 120 CFM.

What is the CFM rating for the Panaflo "H"? I myself should go back and take a look at that one. I've just been able to find other fan manufactures that have higher throughput than the Panaflo.

The problem with the TT fans is their noise at the high end, but that was pretty much limited to the "Smart Fan 2", which had a piercing motor-whine. They are also the only fans out there I've seen, other than a few Enermax and a Vantec (different model than the Tornado) -- which provide use of a thermal sensor as well as a bundled rheostat, and which can be set to run at their minimum speed or maximum speed without either the sensor or the rheostat.

I think their marketing approach to many of their products is gawdy and a bit tasteless, but the Blue LED series has not nearly the motor-whine of the 80mm Smart fan. In fact, for the size of the fans in the Blue series, the dB level is competitive with other fans which have the same throughput. I never bought the Blue LED's for their appearance -- it was just an extra feature to which I was indifferent. But I especially like the versatility. You don't need a controller for these to vary the speed; the thermal sensors work reliably.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
Anyway -- let's resolve a point of contention.

People prefer low-decibel fans because they are "noiseless". Unfortunately, there are limitations to fan design such that the simple aerodynamics of the fan idea means that you either sacrifice cooling through a more "quiet" design, or you increase noise for the sake of cooling with higher rpms and throughput. There are two categories of this noise: air-turbulence -- which can be partially muffled inside a closed case enclosure, and motor noise and vibration -- generally consisting of a "tone", "whine", "moan". As to the vibration of the motor transmitted through the fan frame, the rubber grommets resolve that considerably.

You get more effective cooling with greater CFM's. Greater air-pressure means greater air density which means greater heat-capacity and heat-removal potential. That also explains why cases and fan deployments which create a case "vacuum" do not cool effectively. Such cases and fan deployments generally result in a higher case-interior ambient and a degraded "case-design" cooling profile.

To provide greater CFM's, there is some limited potential for improving fin-design, vents, and other features, but it ultimately boils down to rpm's. Fans of the same size may vary across a range of CFM performance, but they ultimately fall into classes or categories of fans with a narrow range of CFM performance -- each class corresponding to size and maximum rpms for that size. That leaves the matter of decibel-level. Not a lot can be done when increasing CFM throughput to reducing "air-turbulence" and "white-noise", so the only thing left to do is to eliminate motor noise.

Finally, the remaining consideration is "longevity". You can't test your new fan for 50,000 hours, so you rely in the manufacturer's tests and specifications. Generally, if the warranty is "3-year" to "lifetime" -- the manufacturer has high confidence in his product. I think that Vantec Tornado has a 100,000 hour MTBV rating, so that's worth something.

Everyone has their approach to cooling. I prefer to focus on cooling as a top priority and noise as a second priority. I see many computer builds in these forums and other forums where the idle temperature for a processor like mine is between 36 and 40C, and load temps are as high as the low-50's, and these configurations are deemed "successful" and triumphant by the enthusiast who created them. My idle values at a 20% over-clock are around 27C at a room-ambient of 23C or 73F. My load temperatures never -- NEVER -- exceed 38 or 40C -- they seldom exceed 99F.

It's all a matter of personal preferences and trade-offs. But eventually, you have to decide whether you are going to live with a machine that is virtually noiseless with a load CPU temperature of 55C, or if you will be happier with a machine with load values under 40 or 45C, and some noise. If you can deaden the noise, so much the better. If you need complete quiet, you can take solace in the fact that both Intel and AMD thermal limits are above 55C.

Some may recall the Zalman TNN500 (I think that's the model number) -- their all-aluminum, black, $1,000 computer case that uses heat-pipes attached to motherboard components and hard drives to turn the case-panels into a heatsink. I'm surprised that nobody has tried marketing CPU and VGA cooler kits that go beyond the simple heatpipe design and use heatpipes to transfer the heat to any case -- be it steel, aluminum, flimsy, solid, old, new, ugly or "trick". Maybe the reason no-one has done that is that each case requires a custom solution and kit-manufacturing costs would be prohibitive.

But -- hey -- I'm retired, and the components I've acquired keep building up in the closet. I just might try it myself . . . .
 

cryptonomicon

Senior member
Oct 20, 2004
467
0
0
Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
Anyway -- let's resolve a point of contention.

People prefer low-decibel fans because they are "noiseless". Unfortunately, there are limitations to fan design such that the simple aerodynamics of the fan idea means that you either sacrifice cooling through a more "quiet" design, or you increase noise for the sake of cooling with higher rpms and throughput. There are two categories of this noise: air-turbulence -- which can be partially muffled inside a closed case enclosure, and motor noise and vibration -- generally consisting of a "tone", "whine", "moan". As to the vibration of the motor transmitted through the fan frame, the rubber grommets resolve that considerably.

You get more effective cooling with greater CFM's. Greater air-pressure means greater air density which means greater heat-capacity and heat-removal potential. That also explains why cases and fan deployments which create a case "vacuum" do not cool effectively. Such cases and fan deployments generally result in a higher case-interior ambient and a degraded "case-design" cooling profile.

To provide greater CFM's, there is some limited potential for improving fin-design, vents, and other features, but it ultimately boils down to rpm's. Fans of the same size may vary across a range of CFM performance, but they ultimately fall into classes or categories of fans with a narrow range of CFM performance -- each class corresponding to size and maximum rpms for that size. That leaves the matter of decibel-level. Not a lot can be done when increasing CFM throughput to reducing "air-turbulence" and "white-noise", so the only thing left to do is to eliminate motor noise.

Finally, the remaining consideration is "longevity". You can't test your new fan for 50,000 hours, so you rely in the manufacturer's tests and specifications. Generally, if the warranty is "3-year" to "lifetime" -- the manufacturer has high confidence in his product. I think that Vantec Tornado has a 100,000 hour MTBV rating, so that's worth something.

Everyone has their approach to cooling. I prefer to focus on cooling as a top priority and noise as a second priority. I see many computer builds in these forums and other forums where the idle temperature for a processor like mine is between 36 and 40C, and load temps are as high as the low-50's, and these configurations are deemed "successful" and triumphant by the enthusiast who created them. My idle values at a 20% over-clock are around 27C at a room-ambient of 23C or 73F. My load temperatures never -- NEVER -- exceed 38 or 40C -- they seldom exceed 99F.

It's all a matter of personal preferences and trade-offs. But eventually, you have to decide whether you are going to live with a machine that is virtually noiseless with a load CPU temperature of 55C, or if you will be happier with a machine with load values under 40 or 45C, and some noise. If you can deaden the noise, so much the better. If you need complete quiet, you can take solace in the fact that both Intel and AMD thermal limits are above 55C.

Some may recall the Zalman TNN500 (I think that's the model number) -- their all-aluminum, black, $1,000 computer case that uses heat-pipes attached to motherboard components and hard drives to turn the case-panels into a heatsink. I'm surprised that nobody has tried marketing CPU and VGA cooler kits that go beyond the simple heatpipe design and use heatpipes to transfer the heat to any case -- be it steel, aluminum, flimsy, solid, old, new, ugly or "trick". Maybe the reason no-one has done that is that each case requires a custom solution and kit-manufacturing costs would be prohibitive.

But -- hey -- I'm retired, and the components I've acquired keep building up in the closet. I just might try it myself . . . .


very well explained

i myself use speedfan which is intelligent enough to take my fans out of silent mode only when necessary. i find the L1A's suitable to run stuff OC'd, and I couldn't do it without the cnps 7000-- best hs + fan, ever.

edit: to keep this relevant to the dude in need, there isnt much you can do with a tornado. Maybe an Off, 5v, 12v switch??? or a zalman MFC-1 controller.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
I should've kept a notebook of my fan-test results, especially for the Vantec Tornado.

At full-throttle 4,800 to 5,000 rpm, the wind-turbulence -- notice I don't use the expression "air-turbulence" -- is a deafening roar. (LOL -- I almost entertained the notion that it would "erode" my heatsink and fins, like eons of weather takes their toll on mountain-ranges). "Roar" is the only way to describe it.

You could run it at 4,000, with less wind-turbulence, and some "motor-moan". You could run it at 3,000, and still -- some motor-moan. My basic problem with it was not any bigger flaw in the fan itself than the motor noise -- it was the variation in the tone and pitch of the moan due to a fan-controller that doesn't keep the fan at a rock-steady setting. Well, figure with 12V @ 1.0 Amp, don't use an anemic fan-controller. I have hopes for pairing the Vantec with a Sunbeam Rheobus.

If your motherboard fan plugs will handle 12 watts or provide current beyond 1 Amp, you should be able to hook it up and use "Speed Fan" -- or simply set the fan-ratio to its lowest setting in the BIOS. That leaves "The MOAN" to take care of.

I think if you could muffle that particular noise -- and it may vary from one Vantec to another but I don't see why it would -- I can see the Tornado as "an asset" on a hot day.

You know -- every gadget, like people, probably has its place. Everytime I write, think or talk about the Vantec Tornado, I can't help but break out in a laugh -- a sort of chuckle. I actually feel affection for the damn thing, but when I install another one and resurrect a Tornado from my storage closet, I'm going to have a good mitigating solution for "The Moan".

It's a beefy enough fan that you could probably wrap two layers of PaxMate around it, and use PaxMate to build a duct for it. I may try that. No. I WILL try it. If the original creator of this thread decides to at least give it a try (Spire manufactures a product similar to Akasa PaxMate which is just a bit stiffer to the touch and costs a few dollars less for the package) --I'd like to hear how it turns out.

The worst thing I have to contend with at the moment is this faint bearing rattle from my 120mm EverCool aluminums. Those are scheduled for replacement -- not because I can't stand the rattle, which is faint -- truly -- but it reminds me of some . . . sewing machine in a run-down garment-district sweat-shop!!
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
Incidentally, here is a link for the Panaflo:

Panaflo 92mm and 59CFM

It would be interesting to compare CFM ratings for this fan and the Zalman 92mm, which spins at 2,950 rpm -- but Zalman doesn't provide any throughput info. From the breeze coming out my exhaust ports on another machine, I can only say "I believe" the Zalman measures up.
 

cyberknight

Senior member
Sep 3, 2004
378
0
0
you never really appreciate a quiet system until you have one. then at that point, building a silent PC can be addicting.
 

Gilby

Senior member
May 12, 2001
753
0
76
Lot's of ideas--all I know is this thing is giving me a headache as is. Though I'm just now hitting it with Prime95 and my temp is maxing at 36C--I can't argue that the thing is effective and it may be about necessary in an Oklahoma summer. Tomorrow I get my Super Lanboy and I'll see how it sounds closed.

Perhaps something like this would work?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
Sure. For instance, this bearing rattle I have -- it has to be in range between 2 and 8 dB -- if that. But it's something that can be fixed.

If you want "totally quiet" -- then it is either going to be some passive cooling radical heatpipe solution, or it will be water. I'd like the liquid cooling idea better if they could make it work with a non-conductive -- albeit messy substance like ethylene glycol. I've noticed that some watercooling setups actually use a 10% mixture of EG and water. I heard some folklore about a woman who sealed her computer case completely, installed her mobo and circuitboards, and then proceeded to fill up the case interior with ethylene glycol -- pure automotive anti-freeze.

Here's my original "fan-boi" story, a result of my choosing fans and having balked at the idea of radical cooling solutions.

We have some five machines running in this household, two of them downstairs where I sleep at night, three upstairs. I service all these machines, trouble-shoot the network problems, install the software, replace components. I've since focused on improving the air-cooled solutions and reducing the noise. IN the process, I made a point of filtering all the intake fans on every machine, because I get tired of blowing dust-bunnies out of the systems and sweeping them up off the carpet with a vacuum cleaner. Still, you have to clean the filters and dispose of the "fan-filter-cruft."

About two weeks ago, we had a problem with the pilot-light in the household's gas-heating. Somebody called the heating-and -AC maintenance people, and a guy in overalls showed up on our doorstep with the company nametag on his lapel.

Nothing out of the ordinary -- he fixed the problem. But we had been alerted to the problem because a carbon-monoxide detector had tripped its alarm. In point of fact, I think that the alarm was the problem, and there was no real difficulty with the pilot-light. But the maintenance man brought his testing equipment indoors.

I was downstairs when I heard the commotion. "This house has the cleanest air I've ever sampled in this entire county." (I live in the second-biggest county in Southern California).

Somebody asked him how many households he'd sampled air from. "Literally tens of thousands! I've been working this job for 20 years. Your house has the cleanest air in the county -- literally -- of all the houses I've sampled over that time!"

Fans have their noise drawbacks. Filters require maintenance. But . . .

"Please . . . don't call me 'Fan-Boi' . . . "

And don't make fun of my nose, either. My sinus problem of 20 some-odd years has completely disappeared . . . .
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,180
1,780
126
Gilby --

That's a pretty good sale price. You might want to compare it to the Sunbeam Rheobus at 24W per channel. Also, it looks like the reseller's "own-name" brand was probably made by Vantec and relabeled. It sure has the same specs and the Vantec Tornado 92.

Mmmm. Just checking Silicon Valley Compu-Cycle's site where I bought the Rheobus. They've replaced it with "PC Toys" models. For simplicity and "beefy-ness" in terms of wattage-per-channel, it is easy to recommend the Sunbeam Rheobus. When I ordered them from SVC last summer, they held up my order because they only had a single "silver" aluminum in stock -- people had bought them up at the sale price of $14.99. I got that straightened out by telling them "just send me one silver and one black."
 

DonRamon

Member
Nov 29, 2004
25
0
0
lmao @ tornado.. d00d.. I have that fan set on low on my controller and it's still loud.. I can't wait till rest of my parts for my new rig come in tomorrow so I can ditch this fan
 
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