Nazis! - In my neighborhood!

EmperorNero · Jul 26, 2000

wow, such stupidity. first of all, tagej, perhaps someone else can tell you have your head up your ass. here was what I originally said:

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for all of the people who thinks trinitron is at the nazi's level for hating them, think about this: the nazis hated people based on their nationality, skin color, etc which a person has no control of. they also killed 6+ million jews, not to mention various other groups. and anyone who is flies a nazi flag (in most cases) is supporting nazi idealogy and mentality. trinitron hates them for that. he hates them b/c of the way their narrow-minded CHOICE in lifestyle. nazis hated ppl for the way they ARE. there's a big difference between trinitron's and the nazi's hatred. and it's at the least personally insulting to compare the two hatreds.

and since we're on the subject of assholes living in our neighborhoods, I just moved here about 3 years ago, which is cincinatti, ohio. I just found out a year ago that we actually have an organized KKK clan here, although small group but disgusting nonetheless. they tried to rent a space at [something] Square to display their burning crosses. fortunately, the church intentionally bought all of the spaces to prevent them for displaying them. but a few weeks later, about a dozen KKK members went on a little march. all around them other ppl were protesting, but they just marched around w/ their chin up too high in their stupid little white costumes made from piss-stained bed sheets while cops had to safeguard those bastards from the speculating crowds. if they think they are so superior, they should at least not hide behind some damn masks, those cowardly jackasses. UGH.
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and your reply was "EmperorNero: You still don't seem to grasp this concept. True freedom means EVERYONE has the same rights, the same freedom to express their beliefs and opinions, provided they don't break the law." perhaps someone who understood my post without jumping to conclusion can tell you that in my original post that I quoted above, no where does it say or imply that I didn't think true freedom is for everyone. I'm tired of arguing with you over this, it's a major insult to my intelligence to keep repeating myself to such a jackass who won't listen to anything but the voices echoing through his ass.

kabelogo, and I thought resorting to sarcasm was bad, I see you're even worse than that other idiot tagej...I mean "emperor nincompoop"? come on, that's a reminescent of 3rd grade. again, I repeat myself: it's quite stupid and ignorant of you to euphamize all the animosities of crimes against humanity done by the nazis as a whole to the responsible of one man - you're quite twisted in thinking ONLY hitler was resonsible. "Believe it or not, a lot of people did not know what was happening. The german population along with the world, first thought the jews were just being shipped out of Germany" if that statement wasn't so twisted from the truth, I would have pissed in my pants laughing b/c of how some ppl still live under a rock.

kabelogo · Jul 26, 2000

e.n., I assume since you live in cincinatti, you can tell me what goes on behind the closed doors of every business meeting and anything going on. You could also tell me where every train carrying goods is headed, and what it is carrying, and why. You can't.

You would be an idiot to think that everyone knew what was happening during that time. Honestly, you can't be that stupid. Have you ever been to Korea, in the DMZ? Can you tell me what the N Koreans are up to? I mean, we can see them, and what it looks like they are doing, but, hmmm. are you for sure?

You are right, Hitler was not in charge. He did not set up the policies in germany, or control the government. He was a puppet for the entire population, that really believed in Osterra. (isn't that stupid thinking)

Hitler led that nation, and his ideas were impressed on the people, either by force or by want.

please go back to your american summer school and learn some real history, not your bastardized Ohio, USA teaching.

If hate groups are banned in germany, how can you explain the neo-nazi facism that is running rampant in the skinhead community.

You have to love the USA, where some mid-westerner can tell the world what it is like to live. Nero, be quiet, please.

rahvin · Jul 26, 2000

<<You would be an idiot to think that everyone knew what was happening during that time.>>

They rounded up 6 million people, put them in cattle cars and shipped them to large incinerators and detention camps. Those of workable health and age were put to work building in the local communities until their strength was gone then they were murdered. The smell of human flesh burning is a distinctive aroma. With extensive family and friends and the distributed nature of the detention camps are you honestly stupid enough to believe that 95% of the population didn't know what was going on? It's human nature to deny what was going on but everyone knew what was happening, you don't take peoples neighbors away without them having a clue.

<<Can you tell me what the N Koreans are up to?>>

No, but I bet you the CIA can tell you when Kim II last used the potty.

<<He did not set up the policies in germany, or control the government. He was a puppet for the entire population, that really believed in Osterra.>>

Jewish hatred in europe was extensive and had been propogated for thousands of years, around the year 1100 in one of the bourses in germany a rumor started that the jews were taking communion wafers and stabing them to try to kill jesus again. The local peasantry promptly rioted and killed most of the jews in the bourse. Jewsish hatred in Germany only needed mild encouragement, if you honestly think that the a good % of the population objected to such things you are seriously misguided. Hitler provided a basis for blame for the economic condition and even went so far as to blame the loss of WWI on the Jews. He incited the population with long lingering Anti-semitism which allowed him to execute his "final solution" without protests by the population. Many many people benfited from the deaths of those 6 million people and every one of them knew where all that property and money had came from...

There are a lot of groups and people these days trying to re-wire history to suit their demands. And a lot of people don't want to believe that the German populace KNEW what happened to those 6million people, that doesn't make it less true that an overwhelming majority DID know.

kabelogo · Jul 26, 2000

rahvin, they didn't take all 6 million at once, you know. it was a slow but gradual movement. Could you imagine the logistics involved in moving that many people.

I'm sure some did know, others knew, but did not accept it. When they originally started shipping the undesirables out, it was under pretense that they were shipping them to poland, or such an area. The populus was not aware until later on. You make it seem like it all happened in one day.

My family was outside of the loop yours must have been in, rahvin. My family, Prussian, and within the Polish Corridor, just must not have been watching cnn when the story broke and Wolf blitzer clued the whole world in on what had gone down.
I have not tried to rewrite history. I am only giving you the perspective that a lot of people just trying to live day to day saw. And did those people profit from it, yes they did. Europe continues to profit from every mistake germany has ever made.

BoberFett · Jul 26, 2000

rahvin

Did a majority of Americans know that Japanese-Americans were being shipped off to detention camps? Where was the moral outrage then?

kabelogo · Jul 26, 2000

did americans know when the haitans flooded their borders, what happened to those guys? this is the 80's we are talking about. They were carted to similar holding camps in places like ft mccoy wis. and held til they could be returned to Haiti. and what outrage was there here.

BA · Jul 26, 2000

"for all of the people who thinks trinitron is at the nazi's level for hating them, think about this: the nazis hated people based on their nationality, skin color, etc which a person has no control of. they also killed 6+ million jews, not to mention various other groups. and anyone who is flies a nazi flag (in most cases) is supporting nazi idealogy and mentality. trinitron hates them for that. he hates them b/c of the way their narrow-minded CHOICE in lifestyle. nazis hated ppl for the way they ARE. there's a big difference between trinitron's and the nazi's hatred. and it's at the least personally insulting to compare the two hatreds."

I'd consider judaism a CHOICE in lifestyle too. A person is as free to choose religion as they are to choose a political affiliation.

Looney · Jul 26, 2000

<<Nobody here said Trinitron should 'like it' that some neo-nazi idiot moved into his neighborhood. We do, however, reconize that the other person has a right to follow whatever ideology he choses. As for the child molester moving in, nobody would *like* that, but there's nothing you'd be able to do about it -- even they have the right to live where they want, so long as they don't commit criminal acts.>>

And you're telling me you wouldn't do *anything* if a known child molester moved next door to you? And he started to hanging around the local parks and schoolyards (similar to the overt actions of how the nazi is putting up the flags and such). I didn't say Trinitron should go kill or assault the nazi. What i asked was would YOU not react the same way as Trinitron. ie, would you not bitch that you have a molester living near you, would you not threaten that if the molester came near your family that you would kill him (if not to him, to your friends), would you not be upset? People here are saying that if Trinitron shows hate for these Nazis, that he's down to their level... but is he really? a molester moves next door to you and you wouldn't hate him? how about if O.J. moved next door?

And as for this argument that the world knew what the Germans were doing with the Jews, remember that back then information flowed MUCH more slowly than they do now... especially in times of war.

<<They rounded up 6 million people, put them in cattle cars and shipped them to large incinerators and detention camps>>

nobody knew they were being shipped to incinerators! did they wear a sign on their shirts that would have a picture of an oven or a mining camp? how the hell did the world knew what was going on. If just the fact they were being shipped to detention camps was indication enough that something serious was happening to them, what about what the US did to local asians, particularly japanese? do you tell me there is cause for concern that the US was shipping them to detention center to incinerate them? don't be so ignorant. it's easy to see things with 20/20 vision in hindsight.

rahvin · Jul 26, 2000

<<Did a majority of Americans know that Japanese-Americans were being shipped off to detention camps? Where was the moral outrage then?>>

Absolutely, you had to be mentally defficient to not know about the internment camps. American's didn't care, now if they had been putting the Japanesse in big ovens I have a feeling that people might have been upset. I didn't say america was pure in their actions in WWII.

<<rahvin, they didn't take all 6 million at once, you know. it was a slow but gradual movement. Could you imagine the logistics involved in moving that many people.>>

It took time to establish the death camps. Your right it was a slow process, but the logistics were still very complicated, thousands of millitary and civillian personal were required to accomplish this feat. They took people from every neighboorhood in all of europe. Here is a link for you, I suggest you review it. It's a nice timeline of the holocaust.

http://www.ushmm.org/education/history.html

Here is a nice quote for you:

<< On March 11, 1938, Hitler sent his army into Austria and on March 13 the incorporation (Anschluss) of Austria with the German empire (Reich) was proclaimed in Vienna. Most of the population welcomed the Anschluss and expressed their fervor in widespread riots and attacks against the Austrian Jews numbering 180,000 (90 percent of whom lived in Vienna). >>

Really kablengo, I doubt you were there and I know I wasn't there so neither of us really knows how much people knew. You ascertain that people didn't know, I look at the evidence and ask how could the not know? If you read through that link above it will show you that Auschwitz-Birkenau processed close to half a million people in about a 2 month time frame (mostly jews from poland). I really don't know how you can deport and transport 1/2million people in 2 months without everyone knowing where they are going. To claim that people didn't know what was going on at Auschwitz-Birkenau and the other death camps is just stupid. Word gets around and that big billow smoke that smells like burning flesh would have been one hell of an indicator. Couple that with the fact that a lot of people went in to that camp and no one came out should paint a picture that everyone would see the solution to.

Ya maybe today we don't know what's going on in rail transit, back then it was the only form of transit. I just don't buy it that people didn't know, people may claim they didn't know but a lot of people claimed that, even some of the people that worked at the death camps claimed that after the war, that doesn't make it true.

<< But to label everything bad to be the fault of the nsd itself is wrong. Hitler, and his policies, were directly responsible. >>

Oh yes I will label the NSD (nazi) party directly responsible. They took him in and allowed him to become their representative. He didn't single handidly overtake some party against their will. They willing sided with him and his policies and ideas and provided him the manpower to propagate his Ideology. I do blame the NSD as much as I blame their leader. That party should be extinct. You may claim the ideaology has changed but I will never believe it. You yourself labled yourself as a supporter of the party that spawned the nazi's and hitler and resulted in the death of over 100million people in europe. That, I find despicable. Any party that supported something like that should not exist anymore, period. Your party will always be identified with evil.

kabelogo · Jul 26, 2000

maybe everyone knew back then because they used the internet to warn others, huh?

BoberFett · Jul 26, 2000

kabelogo

LOL

rahvin

Can you tell me what your next door neighbor did today? I didn't think so. Now tell me why everyone should have known what was happening to people they didn't even know.

rahvin · Jul 26, 2000

Bobberfet,

They went to work, one of the mothers stayed at home because she is a stay at home mom with 2 kids under the age of about 3. I do know that the SS didn't come by, paint a big yellow jewish star on their door, and haul them off (and giving their condo and all their possesions to another person), I have a feeling I would have remembered that and put that on my list of unusual occurances for the day.

<<maybe everyone knew back then because they used the internet to warn others, huh?>>

Ever heard of gossip? Curiosity? Oh of course maybe they didn't gossip back then and no one was curious where all those people were going. And I'm sure you're possitive that NO ONE knew anyone that might have been in the military or maybe that the SS didn't make it clear what was happening. And I'm possitive that the "final solution" to the "Jewish problem" wasn't leaked from the thousands of CIVILLIANS that worked at the concentration camps. It was just a great big secret right? They did it and no one noticed? And it certainly isn't true that the rest of the world knew about it before the mass killing started. No evidence like the swiss passing information to the brit's and american's surely isn't documented. And of course all that information did get passed around before the gas chambers started up. No of course not, and I'm not the least bit sarcastic either.

Do either of you even know the history of the Holocaust? Why it was unique?

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html

And here is a quote from that first one:

<< In Jan(1940) - Quote from Nazi newspaper, Der Stürmer, published by Julius Streicher - "...The time is near when a machine will go into motion which is going to prepare a grave for the world's criminal - Judah - from which there will be no resurrection." >>

Of course you can disregard them saying in the national paper that they are going to prepare a grave for Judah. And of course you can disregard...

<< In Jan(1941) - Quote from Nazi newspaper, Der Stürmer, published by Julius Streicher - "Now judgment has begun and it will reach its conclusion only when knowledge of the Jews has been erased from the earth." >>

Completely baseless right? How about this one...

<< Dec 16, 1941 - During a cabinet meeting, Hans Frank, Gauleiter of Poland, states - "Gentlemen, I must ask you to rid yourselves of all feeling of pity. We must annihilate the Jews wherever we find them and wherever it is possible in order to maintain there the structure of the Reich as a whole..." >>

I'm sure no one cared what their local politicians were talking about, right? What about this...

<< May 18, 1942 - The New York Times reports on an inside page that Nazis have machine-gunned over 100,000 Jews in the Baltic states, 100,000 in Poland and twice as many in western Russia. >>

Not like america didn't know.... And how about these?

<< June 11, 1942 - Eichmann meets with representatives from France, Belgium and Holland to coordinate deportation plans for Jews. >>

<< Summer (1942) - Swiss representatives of the World Jewish Congress receive information from a German industrialist regarding the Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews. They then pass the information on to London and Washington. >>

<< July 23, 1942 - Treblinka extermination camp opened in occupied Poland, east of Warsaw. The camp is fitted with two buildings containing 10 gas chambers, each holding 200 persons. Carbon monoxide gas is piped in from engines placed outside the chamber, but Zyklon-B will later be substituted. Bodies are burned in open pits. >>

<< Dec 17, 1942 - British Foreign Secretary Eden tells the British House of Commons the Nazis are "now carrying into effect Hitler's oft repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people of Europe." U.S. declares those crimes will be avenged. >>

<< In 1943 - The number of Jews killed by SS Einsatzgruppen passes one million. Nazis then use special units of slave laborers to dig up and burn the bodies to remove all traces. >>

<< May 19, 1943 - Nazis declare Berlin to be Judenfrei (cleansed of Jews). >>

And lots more fun ones if you look through the timeline....

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/What_makes_the_Holocaust_unique.html

BoberFett · Jul 27, 2000

OK, you've made your point. Not to add insult to injury, but, ummm, if there were things printed in the newspaper saying that armed thugs were going to come to my house and kill me and my family I think I'd frigging leave before I found out if it were true.

rahvin · Jul 27, 2000

<< OK, you've made your point. Not to add insult to injury, but, ummm, if there were things printed in the newspaper saying that armed thugs were going to come to my house and kill me and my family I think I'd frigging leave before I found out if it were true. >>

You think it's the Jew's fault they were killed? Are you actually implying that? Maybe you missed these little tidbits?

<< In July(1938) - At Evian, France, the U.S. convenes a League of Nations conference with delegates from 32 countries to consider helping Jews fleeing Hitler, but results in inaction as no country will accept them. >>

<< In May(1939) - The St. Louis, a ship crowded with 930 Jewish refugees, is turned away by Cuba, the United States and other countries and returns to Europe. >>

<< Dec 12, 1941 - The ship "Struma" leaves Romania for Palestine carrying 769 Jews but is later denied permission by British authorities to allow the passengers to disembark. In Feb. 1942, it sails back into the Black Sea where it is intercepted by a Soviet submarine and sunk as an "enemy target." >>

HannibalX · Jul 27, 2000

Crap this thread has grown! I have ben without Internet for the last three days, so let me catch up a tad

kabelogo · Jul 27, 2000

All those dates are great rahvin, but they are all after 1940. Wonder why? The ghettos had been implemented prior to the camps. Why no outrage?

rahvin, you said it yourself. You weren't there, and neither was i. You can quote history all you want, but it's just like quoting the bible. read into it how you will. if the whole world knew, as you say, why did it go on?

EmperorNero · Jul 27, 2000

"You would be an idiot to think that everyone knew what was happening during that time. Honestly, you can't be that stupid."
but YOU do know right? you see, your weak arguments will backfire on yourself.

"please go back to your american summer school and learn some real history, not your bastardized Ohio, USA teaching."

that's just pathetic. considering someone of your intelligent quotient, I guessed I'm forced to explain why. first of all, you accused me assuming things that goes behind closed doors: do you even know what my "bastardized ohio" teachings are? secondly, we use textbooks that are distributed nationwide - it's not just ohio.

"If hate groups are banned in germany, how can you explain the neo-nazi facism that is running rampant in the skinhead community."
what is that even about? where did I say hate groups are banned. this is just another example of your senseless rambling.

"Hitler led that nation, and his ideas were impressed on the people, either by force or by want."
the words in bold says it all. my point proven: most germans wanted hitler and his screwed up philosophy b/c they just needed a scapegoat for their miserable lives - so when hitler presented the jews, they opened their arms to hitler, thus, they were also responsible for any wrongdoings against the jews. remember, you said so yourself: "by want."

why do you constantly insist ONLY hitler was responsible when you I quoted you otherwise (above) that even the germans wanted hitler? are you so pathetic as to wanting hitler to be the scapegoat for nazi's attrocities as hitler wanted the jews to be his? just pathetic - and this is when my faith in human intelligence and morals was increasing.

edit: although the following quote from you was a reply to rahvin, it's just so stupid that I have to butt in:

"rahvin, they didn't take all 6 million at once, you know. it was a slow but gradual movement. Could you imagine the logistics involved in moving that many people. I'm sure some did know, others knew, but did not accept it. "

first of all, the argument here is not whether the nazis took 6 million jews: they eventually did, and jews weren't the only one to be persecuted - so that argument of yours was rather pointless. and in the part about "some did know, others knew, but did not accept it": remember, weren't you accusing me of assuming things? hmm...did you know what the nazis were thinking when you said they didnt' accept it? hypocrisy runs abound.

"When they originally started shipping the undesirables out, it was under pretense that they were shipping them to poland, or such an area."

I believe you're talking about the german citizens here. that would be true but they eventually knew. and again, you supported my arguments once again: the germans and nazis were also responsible. if the germans knew about the evictions and deportation, they didn't do anything but sit by happily when it happened b/c they were able to take the jews' possessions. also, the nazis DID know that the jews were being shipped off to concentration camps b/c they were the ones doing the shipping. again, why are you saying only hitler is responsble? your childish logic stuns me.

yata · Jul 27, 2000

What the heck is all this?! I think the claims some of you has made are ridiculous.

Trinitron has all right to feel this way. He knows what Nazis are, whereas his neighbor is ignorant and nothing to do but claim some sh!t like this.

Forget about arguing over the Constitution or what-not. One has to be watchful of this stuff to keep you ars alive, let alone keeping democracy alive.

Allied forces didn't even do anything when Germans first invaded. Only until they almost got their a$$ raped did they gather and fight. Can't chill and think it's no big deal.

Or claim those neighbors has right to hang a Nazi flag, jeez.

kabelogo · Jul 27, 2000

my neighbors fly the red white and blue, the american flag of ignorance, and i don't mind. At least they aren't from the mighty state of ohio, usa.

trinitron can feel how he wants, i do believe you stupid americans have that right. doesn't your constitution allow you to be ignorant, or is that just the public school system?

en, if you noticed, one of the other things you quoted me on was directed toward something rahvin said, but if you read the WHOLE thread, you'd have known that.

arrogant and ignorant, what a combination.

rahvin · Jul 27, 2000

<<All those dates are great rahvin, but they are all after 1940. Wonder why? The ghettos had been implemented prior to the camps. Why no outrage?>>

You are such a fvsking moron you know that? They weren't killing people in the ghetto's. Not mass murder anyway you twit. The death camps and the Einsatzgruppen did almost all the organized killing. Don't you get that?

<< In July (1940) - Eichmann's Madagascar Plan presented, proposing to deport all European Jews to the island of Madagascar, off the coast of east Africa. >>

<< March 26, 1941 - The German Army High Command gives approval to RSHA and Heydrich on the tasks of SS murder squads (Einsatzgruppen) in occupied Poland. >>

<< Summer (1941) - Himmler summons Auschwitz Kommandant Höss to Berlin and tells him, "The Führer has ordered the Final Solution of the Jewish question. We, the SS, have to carry out this order...I have therefore chosen Auschwitz for this purpose." >>

<< Dec 8, 1941 - In occupied Poland, near Lodz, Chelmno extermination camp becomes operational. Jews taken there are placed in mobile gas vans and driven to a burial place while carbon monoxide from the engine exhaust is fed into the sealed rear compartment, killing them. The first gassing victims include 5,000 Gypsies who had been deported from the Reich to Lodz. >>

<<You can quote history all you want, but it's just like quoting the bible. read into it how you will. if the whole world knew, as you say, why did it go on? >>

Oh so now history isn't a valid source of information? Is that what you are implying? Are you actually suggesting that the history I've presented is incorrect? Are you that ignorant?

My impression of you at this point is someone that completely denies the truth, you are in danger of allowing history to repeat itself. Of course you maybe an anti-semite and think what happened was a good thing. Maybe you don't, maybe you just don't understand how people could let that happen. Well that's a question psychology has been asking since the war ended. There is a book called "The Wave" that is a true story that maybe YOU should read. There is another book called "Night" that you should read as well. You don't understand history.

kabelogo · Jul 27, 2000

"history is made by beautiful people."--tmj

rahvin, are you a bananna? i was just wondering.

reitz · Jul 27, 2000

tagej,

<< To you, a skinhead's opinion is 'wrong'. To him, your opinion is wrong. So who's 'right'? Nobody -- the constitution grants everyone the same rights to express their opinions - whether they are nazis, skinheads, kkk, black panthers, or <gasp> even members of the democratic party. >>

Exactly. I was pointing out that early in the thread, everyone was quick to condemn Trinitron's beliefs, but at the same time supported the "Nazi". Hypocracy in action

EmperorNero · Jul 27, 2000

kabelogo, I see you didn't make any reference to my post except for this:

"my neighbors fly the red white and blue, the american flag of ignorance, and i don't mind. At least they aren't from the mighty state of ohio, usa."

now if you don't mind, I'm gonna go kick myself right now for wasting such precious time on an uneducated, twisted subhuman such as yourself. now if you're going to give me all that crap again, I hope you'll understand if I ignore your uninformed, incoherent babbling.

kabelogo · Jul 27, 2000

<<"If hate groups are banned in germany, how can you explain the neo-nazi facism that is running rampant in the skinhead community."
what is that even about? where did I say hate groups are banned. this is just another example of your senseless rambling>>

moron.

yawn.

I like that, uneducated, twisted subhuman. Creative. Now please go away. thank you.

Nazis! - In my neighborhood!

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