Need cheap graphics card for 4K at 60hz , No gaming

[DAPUNISHER]

Poor health is a huge bummer. I sincerely hope you get to feeling better. Let's hope that RX550 solves the problem then.

 

[GeezerMan]

I have been fighting type one diabetes, way different than type two, since 1969 when I was eight. Hard to believe it's been 54 years.. It has just about killed me. Bleeding retinas, nerve damage, heart attacks, congestive heart failure. My legs are just about gone . BUT, I have 4K video to watch.

That stats for nerds is very interesting. I did not realize some things. If you set resolution to 3840 x 2160, and use the windows recommended " change size of text, apps, etc." it affects even the real full screen video resolution on youtube. Like windows wants to set apps at 300%, and doing that on a 4K video says the viewport is 1280x720*3. I don't know what the 3 means at the end. It still looks better resolution than 1280x720. Is the TV or graphics card scaling up the 1280x720 to 3840x2160 ?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The 3 means the 300% resolution scaling you are using via the windows display settings. The viewport is the res in the video player, which in your case is 720p. It probably looks better because of the physical pixel density of your display?

 

[GeezerMan]

I am trying to wrap my brain around this. If the 4K video is really 720P when scaling apps 300%, then I can't tell the difference between 720P and 4K with no scaling?

But if I play a bluray player, not through windows, and set it at 720P, I can sure see the difference on a 4K tv

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I am trying to wrap my brain around this. If the 4K video is really 720P when scaling apps 300%, then I can't tell the difference between 720P and 4K with no scaling?

But if I play a bluray player, not through windows, and set it at 720P, I can sure see the difference on a 4K tv

Getting out of my depth now. I don't work in related field or even have a videophile gene in my body. Is it a 4K BR disc or 1080p? Maybe the scaler chip in the BR player is trash?

 

[kschendel]

I think the 3x scaling is a HiDPI thing; graphic elements are sized as if they were on a 1280x720 screen, but rendered at the full 4k, so you get larger fonts, icons, etc but sharper. The bluray 720p setting probably renders at an actual 720p resolution with a very large and blocky pixel size. (A 720p pixel would be 3x the size of the native 4k pixel.)

 

[GeezerMan]

It's a 1080 bluray

I get what you are saying kschendel, and that was my original understanding of scaling that it affects things like text. Now the youtube stats say it is displaying the 4K video at 640X360*3.5, so youtube "knows" the 350% scaling in effect and does not alter the 4K image , so if I go full screen there is no difference.

I will do some more reading on the subject later today

 

[tcsenter]

The HP RX 550 2GB should have DDR5 , run 4K at 60Hz, and is supposed to decode VP9 with the better drivers. I am not sure how to test VP9

Delivery still on for Monday but who knows with the weather going through the easterly region of the USA from whence it is has been shipped (NY).

Isn't there an H265/HEVC option for Youtube content? I hardly ever watch YT content higher than 720p/1080i. Actually don't use YT for entertainment like films, per se. Edutainment, mostly (guitar tutorials, repair guides, debates or presentations).

 

[GeezerMan]

Hmmm. On our 2600X rig, I did a clean install of windows, Graphics is an old GT 720 that does not decode VP9. With hardware acceleration on in Chrome, it's very good with 4K youtube. I mean I am pretty sure I would be happy to leave it alone.

The surprise comes with hardware acceleration off, and the jerk comes back, BUT the nerd stats does not show an increase in dropped frames. Some jerkiness is not dropped frames like I assumed

 

[GeezerMan]

windows 10 updates have been messed up lately. After one update, one PC here would crash immediately upon opening to the desktop.

This may not be related, but today I noticed that my GPU usage was maxing out and my TV tuner software had a choppy picture. There is a process called DWM.exe, and that was eating up the time.

This is what worked for me :
open Performance Options window, and click on the Visual Effects tab. Select the radio button to Adjust the system for best performance. " You lose some eye candy, but things are quicker for me, and GPU, CPU, memory use went way down.

 

[tcsenter]

OK you can scratch the RX 550 off your list. Between 12% ~ 25% frames dropped testing several YT 4K@60 videos, using Chrome or Firefox with hardware acceleration enabled and latest AMD drivers as of this month. In all scenarios, there was no utilization of the video decode path for the AMD driver, it was all being done by GPU shaders and CPU (reported by Task Manager -> Performance Tab).

It's funny though I got about half as many dropped frames running Firefox as I did with Chrome, the latter is supposed to have the best support for this Google-centric VP9 codec or player support. And YT on Firefox seemed to keep the buffer filled better (stats for nerds) while the buffer was starved twice as much running Chrome? Weird. My internet is 20Mbps but IRL only achieve about 15Mbps. I even downloaded a VP9 (WebM container) video to my local drive and played in Chrome, VLC media player to eliminate network issues. Still dropped frames and a trad glitchy but much less.

Can a PC be used to cast or stream VP9 content to the fixed function decoding built into a 4K HDTV? Or if you have a 4K ready 'Smart' HDTV why not just use the Youtube app on the TV?

 

[GeezerMan]

" In all scenarios, there was no utilization of the video decode path for the AMD driver, it was all being done by GPU shaders and CPU "

I don't know what this means. Shaders are within the GPU, right? as is the video decode path? Where does one see the video decode path?

I live on the PC , and multi-task all day long. I go thru my youtube subscriptions and line up tabs to watch during the day, while I read forums, shop, banking, watch and record local OTA ATSC through my tuner card .

My GPU cards are both 30hz, the 4K TV is 60hz, youtube 4K is usually 60hz. I bet things would smooth out with a 60Hz card

 

[tcsenter]

I don't know what this means. Shaders are within the GPU, right? as is the video decode path? Where does one see the video decode path?

Programmable shaders can be used for some of the decoding like post-processing but not all of it and at considerable performance cost compared to dedicated fixed function decoding units. In some aspects of decoding using the shader resources is slower than just offloading to the CPU. This is why the GPU has dedicated video encode/decode processing units, which VP9 content cannot exploit in this case. But H265/HEVC runs wonderfully (because it has explicit support in the video processing unit and driver).

On Windows 10 and 11, you can see the various resource or functional utilization in Performance tab of Task Manager (and probably some other utilities), under the GPU section.

My GPU cards are both 30hz, the 4K TV is 60hz, youtube 4K is usually 60hz. I bet things would smooth out with a 60Hz card.

I think you meant 30 or 60 fps, not Hz.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think you meant 30 or 60 fps, not Hz.

Monitor refresh rates are typically specified in Hz. (cycles/sec)

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have been fighting type one diabetes

Lysulin can help to reduce the glucose overload by having the glucose flushed out with urine (formulated by a Ph.D): https://lysulin.com/

Discuss with your doc to see if it may help you.

 

[tcsenter]

Monitor refresh rates are typically specified in Hz. (cycles/sec)

I know but he said his 'cards were 30hz', and videos don't have a refresh rate expressed in Hz.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Now the youtube stats say it is displaying the 4K video at 640X360*3.5, so youtube "knows" the 350% scaling in effect and does not alter the 4K image , so if I go full screen there is no difference.

Youtube is saving on bandwidth. Either the video they have on their servers isn't full 4K or they are transferring a lower res version to your PC because they have determined that your internet isn't fast enough.

Text scaling should have no impact on video resolution. It would be monumentally dumb if it did.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I know but he said his 'cards were 30hz' and videos don't have a refresh rate expressed in Hz.

Watch videos at high frame rate (FPS) on YouTube - Computer - YouTube Help

How to watch at high frame rate To get high frame rate playback, watch a YouTube video at a quality of 720p or 1080p. In the quality menu, high frame rate will be listed next to the resolution. For

support.google.com

Hz and FPS are same and youtube supports 1080p60 videos.

 

[igor_kavinski]

But if I play a bluray player, not through windows, and set it at 720P, I can sure see the difference on a 4K tv

The bluray player will downscale the video to 720P and then the TV's upscaler will try to stretch that 720p over 4K worth of screen real estate. The result will obviously be a mess. Most 4K TV upscalers work best with 1080p video.

 

[tcsenter]

Watch videos at high frame rate (FPS) on YouTube - Computer - YouTube Help

How to watch at high frame rate To get high frame rate playback, watch a YouTube video at a quality of 720p or 1080p. In the quality menu, high frame rate will be listed next to the resolution. For

support.google.com

Hz and FPS are same and youtube supports 1080p60 videos.

Technically yes but nobody customarily describe the video's frame rate in Hz. And what does a 30Hz card mean?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Hardware 4K upscaler for low res content: https://venturebeat.com/business/mclassic-console-graphics-processor-review-it-actually-works/

 

[igor_kavinski]

And what does a 30Hz card mean?

Possibly some really old card that has a video output port that can't do any better than 30Hz.

 

[GeezerMan]

Possibly some really old card that has a video output port that can't do any better than 30Hz.

guilty as charged. Both my old cards here, that work fine with 1080p, not as fine with 4K are rated at 4K at 30Hz. So, my goal is a card that can handle 4K 60Hz with HDMI 2.1 port, no more adapters ever again for me. Oh, and can handle VP9

It's surprising how good these old cards can handle 4K youtube videos , with hardware acceleration on, and no VP9 decoding

 

[igor_kavinski]

Zen 4 has HDMI 2.1:

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17585/SoC_20.png

 

[GeezerMan]

Some messages posted on the web about some real good deals right now at micro center, if you have one near you

AMD Ryzen 9 7900X, ASUS B650E-F ROG Strix Gaming WiFi, G.Skill Flare X5 Series 32GB DDR5-6000 Kit, Computer Build Combo 600.00
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, ASUS B550-F ROG Strix Gaming WiFi II, CPU / Motherboard Combo 289.00

I don't have a need for them, but you might