Need feedback on this rig

[kirilus]

Hello,

I have the following wish list and would like to hear your expert opinion on the performance/price aspect:

ASUS MAXIMUS EXTREME LGA 775 Intel X38 /// $349
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz /// $220
EVGA 512-P3-N841-A3 GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB ///$339
OCZ Platinum 2GB SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) ///$279
Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM ///$169
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM ///$154
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply ///$169
ZALMAN Z-MACHINE GT1000 BLACK ///$349

---
Total ~2K

I also need decent speakers and cpu cooler.

All comments are welcome. Thank you.

 

[NamelessMC]

I think you have a lot of money to spend. Congratulations.

 

[Roguestar]

Why DDR3? It's exorbitantly expensive for such a little performance gain.
You could build 2 computers for $2k.
Scaling the motherboard down to a P35 board, the RAM down to standard DDR2-800 and perhaps spending sensibly on a case could save you $500~.

 

[kirilus]

Thank you for your reply, Roguestar.

P35 boards do not support 45nm and according to the recent article in either Techgage or AnandTech, DDR3 adds about 2-5% overall performance which is a lot for a single PC component.

 

[chinaman1472]

You've picked a HORRIBLE price/performance system.
You can spend $1k and get a system that's probably just 10% slower in benchmarks, and 1% slower to the human eye.

 

[MarcVenice]

P35 boards support 45nm just fine. And erm, 2-5% is not a lot. If you clock your CPU to 3.6ghz you get the same extra performance if not more, and if you clock it to 4.0ghz it's even better. You could also buy a HD3870 X2 instead, which will improve performance a lot more then 2-5% over a 8800GTS 512mb, and for a lot less money. PSU is a little overkill to, 520hx would be just fine.

 

[kirilus]

How about this change:

ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX ///$179.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz /// $220
Patriot Viper 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) PVS24G6400LLK ///$129.99
COOLER MASTER Real Power Pro RS-650-ACAA-A1 ATX Form Factor 12V V2.3 / SSI Standard EPS 12V V2.91 650W ///$139.99
Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 ///$169.99
HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 HDS721075KLA330 (0A34914) 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s ///$179.99 (I need extra storage)
ZALMAN Z-MACHINE GT1000 BLACK ///$349
Thermaltake CL-P0114 120mm CPU Cooler ///$45
Logitech THX Z-5300e 280 Watts RMS 5.1 Speaker ///$130

huh?

Is 3870 X2 a better card than 8800gts 512 @ 1600x1200?

 

[angry hampster]

$350 for a case :laugh:

 

[kirilus]

yes, my friend, 350 for a case

if you don't have anything useful to say - don't

 

[NamelessMC]

Laughing at a $350 case is quite useful. Look, if you want best of the best, that's fine.

But just understand that the people here are more of modest/honest spenders. Spending $350 on a case isn't modest. It's overkill.

What's to stop you from getting a $200 Stacker or $150 Lian Li, a Dremel, some air brush paint, some nice fans from www.jab-tech.com and making your OWN case, rather than spending $200 more than what a case is worth, to get some engineered garbage that's branded by some punk gamer's retail name all over it.

In fact, taking that example further. You could get a $100 Thermaltake Armor and spend the remaining $250 on water-cooling, and beat the piss out of any computer with the same specifications as yours in no time flat.

Here's what I recommend-
1) Ditch the Zalman case and the Thermaltake cooler.
Go with a Corsair 620HX (It's modular and higher quality than the Cooler Master 650, trust me on this, it's built by Seasonic, one of the top server-grade PSU manufacturers in the world)
2) Get a full-tower ATX case, either this Thermaltake Armor-
http://www.petrastechshop.com/thvaarbl.html
http://www.svc.com/va8003bws.html
Or this for $50 More
Cosmos: http://www.svc.com/rc-1000-ksn1-gp.html
Stacker 830: http://www.svc.com/rc-830-kkn1-gp.html

3) And with the remaining $200 or $150, get some water cooling:
www.jab-tech.com
Swiftech MCR220QP
Swiftech Apogee GT
Swiftech MCP655-B
Swiftech MICRES Reservoir
Some pretty tubes in colors you like
Some brackets
Some Yate Loon Blue LED fans

4) ....

5) Profit!!!! (And by profit I mean, you can over-clock to 4.2-4.3 GHZ with the Wolfdale, or a steady/safe 4.0GHZ without worries, your system will be quieter, will run cooler, will LOOK totally badass and in the future when you get more money, you can get a bigger radiator and add a water block to the video-card and even the chipset and be fully H2O which not only looks cool, makes your system almost completely silent, but gives you the best possible over-clocks you can get, well until you factor phase or dry ice, which is totally not worth it)

 

[chinaman1472]

The second setup is better... but the mobo is still overkill if you don't need the features. The case isn't necessary. Raptor series isn't any faster.

 

[kirilus]

2 NamelessMC:
That made me think... However, here is an issue:

The Bottom Line
The next time a computer friend tells you water cooling performs better or is quieter than air cooling, tell him his information is out of date. Air coolers have evolved to the point where a top $50 to $75 air cooler will normally outperform a water cooling kit at $300 or below. The best air coolers are much cheaper, easier to install, lower in noise, and provide better overclocking results than water cooling kits that are up to six times more expensive. -link-


I will be getting ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink instead of Thermaltake CL-P0114 (AnandTech Review) and a different case, yes. But I care about aesthetics and need a good case w/window and w/o ugly LED lights. Any ideas? Self-painting is an option.

Has anyone had any experience with Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower?

 

[MarcVenice]

Kirilus, the anandtech review got bashed PRETTY hard by experienced watercooling people. The watercooling units they reviewed simply suck. You would have to get your own parts together, and it will be a little more of a hassle to install, I grant you that, but I bet it will be fun as well, and there is no way in hell a tuniq or thermalright 120 will outperform a 300$ watercooling kit, if done the right way. Price performance wise it's more expensive, but I didn't see you being concerned about money that much.

As for the zalman, have you looked at the tuniq tower 120 for 45$ It performs better, and it looks pretty cool too if you ask me. As for the antec nine hundred, check the cases and cooling forum, you'll see mostly positive buyers, it's a solid, qaulity case, that isn't actually that loud, and provides very good cooling. Here's a post I stole some guy made for a CPU only loop, which can be had for less then 250$, and will so kick any aircoolers ass.

Swiftech MCR220-QP $40
Swiftech MCP655/Laing D5 Vario $75-80
ApogeeGTX/D-Tek Fuzion $60
Swiftech MicroRes $20
10' Masterkleer 7/16" ID Tubing
EK-High Flow 1/2" Barbs (except, if you get the ApogeeGTX, use the barbs provided... the EK's leak with the ApogeeGTX).
8 Worm-gear Clamps
2/4x Yate-Loon DS12-H @ Jab-tech for $3.50/each
PTS - Bionuke and G11 Pentosin

Get these at jab-tech and Petra's Tech shop. They have decent prices. With shipping, it shouldn't be more than $250 and it will be a very decent migration to water.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: kirilus
Thank you for your reply, Roguestar.

P35 boards do not support 45nm and according to the recent article in either Techgage or AnandTech, DDR3 adds about 2-5% overall performance which is a lot for a single PC component.

P35 boards support the 45nm processors just fine. 2-5% in RAM isn't much if you're still limited by graphics card speed and memory buffer size, then processor speed in that order, when playing games. Spend more money in that order before heading to components that it won't make as much difference on.

Bear in mind that when buying a windowed case it won't shield surrounding electronics from EMI like a solid metal case will, just a thought incase you have other AV equipment right beside your PC.

The 3870X2 will perform better than the 8800GTS 512 at 1600*1200 when you've got lots of AA and AF on.

 

[kirilus]

Sorry, P35 indeed support the 45nm processors, with bios update.

Watercooling... Asus sells a few motherboards that can be watercooled (I think it is Maximus Formula SE) - is it a better choice when considering water? After all cooling just the processor you still need air for other parts.

And, I forgot to mention, the case has to be portable as I might need to move it from place to place. The only solution I see is a water cooling block that goes in inside the tower, such as CoolIT Freezone.

And, how about Antec P182 Gun Metal Black case?

 

[kirilus]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Kirilus, the anandtech review got bashed PRETTY hard by experienced watercooling people. The watercooling units they reviewed simply suck. You would have to get your own parts together, and it will be a little more of a hassle to install, I grant you that, but I bet it will be fun as well, and there is no way in hell a tuniq or thermalright 120 will outperform a 300$ watercooling kit, if done the right way. Price performance wise it's more expensive, but I didn't see you being concerned about money that much.

Price IS the issue, just like for the most people. However, I am prepared to spend a little extra to build a decent system and I do not upgrade that often. Currently I have AMD 4400, Biostar NF4 Ultra-A9A, 2GB Corsair DDR, 7900GT, WD HDD most of it is ancient... However, I also understand that technology change quickly today and stuff gets outdated even quicker. Then the question arises - why spend money on latest and best if you can get an above average system and save some green? With that in mind what can you, experts), recommend in a $1700-2200 price range (CPU, video card, etc.)?

Thanks.

 

[MarcVenice]

Well, you're on the right track about hardware getting outdated real fast. Therefore, excluding a screen and OS, it's probably best to build a rig worth roughly 1000$ right now, and spend another 700-1200$ in a year or so. That way you will be on top of hardware for 2 years straight, but if you spend 1700-2200$ now, you'll be on top for a year and 2 months, and then you're hardware is going to be outdated again. What I'm trying to say is, spending 1000$ now and 1000$ in a year or a little more, will give you the most performance.

What I would build myself, had I had your money would be something like this: p35 mobo, 90-150$ depending on need for e-sata/firewire, e8400 for 190-220$, 4gb of ram for 95$, 8800gt 230$, p182 90$, 500gb HD, 110$, tuniq tower 120. You need a dvd-drive too, but that's it. Items listed below.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...&Tpk=abit%2bip35%2bpro mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115037 cpu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122 ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130318 videocard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822152052 HD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835154001 HSF / Tuniq Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...2E16811129025&Tpk=p182 Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16817139004&Tpk=550vx PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16817139001&Tpk=520hx or this one, which I would prolly get coz it's modular

This comes out at 1000$ or so AFTER rebates. That's what I would do, very FAST rig for just 1000$ I don't have a clue what I could possibly add to make this thing much faster, for a reasonably price. Faster ram could be this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145 so you can overclock a little further without the ram giving any trouble. Switching mobo's won't make any difference, but you could pay 50-70$ extra for a x38 mobo. Videocard could be a 8800GTS 512mb, for 40$ more or so, but the HD3870 X2 isn't that much value for money, rather go with a 8800GT(S) for now, and step up to g200 or r700, nvidia's and AMD's new high-end cards respectively. Case is just godly, so is the PSU, nice big heatsink to keep things cool and quiet. Samsung HD because it's cool and quiet running and plenty fast

Save those 1000$ and come back in a year, and let me spend it again, and you will have a lightning fast rig, very up to date, for at least 2-3 years in a row. Spending 2000$ now won't accomplish that. Oh, one last thing, the p182 is no lightweight, but if you're not a total wimp you can carry it around just fine.

 

[jterrell]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Well, you're on the right track about hardware getting outdated real fast. Therefore, excluding a screen and OS, it's probably best to build a rig worth roughly 1000$ right now, and spend another 700-1200$ in a year or so. That way you will be on top of hardware for 2 years straight, but if you spend 1700-2200$ now, you'll be on top for a year and 2 months, and then you're hardware is going to be outdated again. What I'm trying to say is, spending 1000$ now and 1000$ in a year or a little more, will give you the most performance.

What I would build myself, had I had your money would be something like this: p35 mobo, 90-150$ depending on need for e-sata/firewire, e8400 for 190-220$, 4gb of ram for 95$, 8800gt 230$, p182 90$, 500gb HD, 110$, tuniq tower 120. You need a dvd-drive too, but that's it. Items listed below.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...&Tpk=abit%2bip35%2bpro mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115037 cpu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122 ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130318 videocard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822152052 HD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835154001 HSF / Tuniq Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...2E16811129025&Tpk=p182 Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16817139004&Tpk=550vx PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16817139001&Tpk=520hx or this one, which I would prolly get coz it's modular

This comes out at 1000$ or so AFTER rebates. That's what I would do, very FAST rig for just 1000$ I don't have a clue what I could possibly add to make this thing much faster, for a reasonably price. Faster ram could be this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145 so you can overclock a little further without the ram giving any trouble. Switching mobo's won't make any difference, but you could pay 50-70$ extra for a x38 mobo. Videocard could be a 8800GTS 512mb, for 40$ more or so, but the HD3870 X2 isn't that much value for money, rather go with a 8800GT(S) for now, and step up to g200 or r700, nvidia's and AMD's new high-end cards respectively. Case is just godly, so is the PSU, nice big heatsink to keep things cool and quiet. Samsung HD because it's cool and quiet running and plenty fast

Save those 1000$ and come back in a year, and let me spend it again, and you will have a lightning fast rig, very up to date, for at least 2-3 years in a row. Spending 2000$ now won't accomplish that. Oh, one last thing, the p182 is no lightweight, but if you're not a total wimp you can carry it around just fine.

very nicely done indeed....

I'd go with a different heatsink (which is really not important) but that is about it.

 

[kirilus]

So it goes: Asus Maximus Formula, E8400, BGF 8800GTS, Patriot Viper 4GB DDR2, WD Raptor, CORSAIR 620W, Zalman CNPS9500, and Antec P182.

 

[MarcVenice]

Sounds like a reasonable setup to me A little more what I would bargain for, but not complete overkill. With some luck the Asus mobo will support next-gen cpu's as well. I wonder why you are so intend on getting the zalman though, when for the same price there are better coolers to be had. Oh, and one last bit of advise, shop around, I'm pretty sure you can get the 620hx cheaper on a different website then newegg.com.

 

[kirilus]

Thanks for the feedback. Zalman fan has no LED, is smaller than similar coolers that use 120x120 fan, is relatively quiet, and aesthetically acceptable. Plus, a good review on Techgage.

PSU is $20 bucks cheaper on several other sites but since I only paid $10 dollars shipping for ALL parts I decided to get everything in one place.

 

[kirilus]

OK, the Asus Maximus Formula does not want to recognize E8400... Called Asus and as usual got the worst technical support experience. This is my last Asus board.

So, I switched to Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and couldn't be happier. Easily overclocked the processor to 3.6 MHz and only have good thing to say about Gigabyte.

 

[HawkeyeRecon2]

Originally posted by: kirilus
Thank you for your reply, Roguestar.

P35 boards do not support 45nm and according to the recent article in either Techgage or AnandTech, DDR3 adds about 2-5% overall performance which is a lot for a single PC component.

You asked: "I have the following wish list and would like to hear your expert opinion on the performance/price aspect:"


His simple answer: "$350 for a case" expressed his opinion on the performance/price aspect. That the price was high and wouldn't effect the performance.

If you like the list you put together go for it. Lots of people here are showing you ways to spend less money though and get as good of a machine.

 

[imported_wired247]

Originally posted by: kirilus
OK, the Asus Maximus Formula does not want to recognize E8400... Called Asus and as usual got the worst technical support experience. This is my last Asus board.

So, I switched to Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and couldn't be happier. Easily overclocked the processor to 3.6 MHz and only have good thing to say about Gigabyte.

sounds like with the ASUS mobo, you failed "BIOS update 101: USB Flash drives and you"

 

[DarkRogue]

Originally posted by: wired247
sounds like with the ASUS mobo, you failed "BIOS update 101: USB Flash drives and you"

How can you flash the BIOS if the mobo doesn't recognize the CPU? Wouldn't it fail to POST, thus preventing you from accessing BIOS? Or am I mistaken here?