Need upgrade, or underperforming?

[nwkegan]

Hello,

I'm a big PC gamer with a budget build looking for optimal performance in a wide variety of settings. Right now, I have the following setup:

Intel Core i3 2100 CPU
HD Radeon 6850 GPU @ 840/1000
4 GB G.Skill DDR3 RAM, @ 1333? Rated for 1600, need to adjust in BIOS
650w Antec Earthwatts
MSI P67a-G43 MOBO

Using BF3 as an example, at 1920x1080 I can only run the game smoothly on low settings. At that point, GPU usage remains at 70-90%, almost never 99%, and I get a constant 60fps with minor dips. If I turn it to medium, it's still playable, but choppier despite having 50+ FPS and just barely reaching 99% GPU usage, sometimes dipping below.

I've read of folks with a Phenom II x4 955 + an HD 6870 running on High at this resolution, and I'm no where near it with a slightly less powerful card, so what gives?

Similarly, Skyrim runs like crap, even on the LOWEST SETTINGS POSSIBLE; I check my FPS, and it's still capped at 60 or a little below, it's just not smooth! Both games' auto-detect features adjust every setting to high, yet I get crappy performance on low in Skyrim. Is it a software/hardware problem, or is my system just capped there?

If it's capped, I already plan to upgrade to a Core i5 2500k, and either purchase another 6850 for crossfire or go with a 2gb 6950. I want to make sure first, though, that it's entirely necessary, and that I might not have the same lag problems after upgrading!

If we establish THAT, then my next question would be which part I should upgrade first, the GPU or CPU? I am certainly going to overclock both, and I think I'll have enough power for even the 6950 + a 4.5 GHz 2500k.

Any help? I greatly appreciate it!

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Well, the best you can do (and the cheapest) is probably crossfiring, i dont know if your mobo supports it

 

[Ken g6]

Crossfiring 6850s or 6870s causes the worst micro-stutter.

First, what Catalyst version are you running?

 

[nwkegan]

That is why I am leaning towards the 2GB 6950; I can afford it.

I can put the 6850 in my old comp, or sell it.

I'm running 11.12. I've tried a few other versions and reinstalled Windows 7 64 to no avail.

 

[lehtv]

In Skyrim you'll probably benefit more from a 2500K, it is so CPU dependent. I'm a bit surprised though that you're getting bad performance even on low settings.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

In Skyrim you'll probably benefit more from a 2500K, it is so CPU dependent. I'm a bit surprised though that you're getting bad performance even on low settings.

yeah me too

 

[nwkegan]

Yes, everyone says it is abnormal... yet no one can tell me why it's happening. It's not their fault, it's just frustrating that it's so odd as to be difficult to solve.

I just want to fix it and have a normal PC for once. I had a similar issue with my last comp. First, I had to RMA the GPU because it had bad tearing issues, regardless of vsync status. Then, it would stutter at the weirdest times in the games I played. Ultimately it was fixed, but by that time the hardware was outdated.

What parts should, and how can I test for an issue, or how should I attempt to resolve it?

 

[mfenn]

Using BF3 as an example, at 1920x1080 I can only run the game smoothly on low settings. At that point, GPU usage remains at 70-90%, almost never 99%, and I get a constant 60fps with minor dips. If I turn it to medium, it's still playable, but choppier despite having 50+ FPS and just barely reaching 99% GPU usage, sometimes dipping below.

Similarly, Skyrim runs like crap, even on the LOWEST SETTINGS POSSIBLE; I check my FPS, and it's still capped at 60 or a little below, it's just not smooth!

How are you checking your FPS? If your games are getting 50+ FPS, that should be fluid unless one of three things is happening:
1. The framerate measurement is just wrong.
2. You are hitting segments where your minimum FPS dips and are perceiving that as "not smooth".
3. You are hyper-sensitive to framerate in general.

Can you be more specific about what "not smooth" and "choppy" mean?

 

[nwkegan]

I'll try! I don't think it's specifically a sensitivity to framerates, as I watch other people's FRAPs footage and drool.

I monitor the FPS in BF3 with both the in-game console command and MSI Afterburner. Both report similar numbers. On low settings, I get a constant 60 FPS with minor stutters every second or two, sometimes no stuttering at all.

Turned up to medium, even though the FPS reads 50-60, I get consistent stutters every second or two.

On high I'll get ~25-45 fps, averaging around 38 (estimate), yet when I move around the screen does not move fluidly, objects do not move fluidly, but it is not choppy like 15 fps would be. I get those same stutters as before but in greater severity.

Two interesting things to note are that:

1) The in-game performance monitor will show the stutters as sudden CPU (and sometimes, but not always GPU) render time increases. Very abrupt, lasts only a millisecond, and consequently drops right back down. Kind of like ___|___|___

2) Turning vsync off on low seems to give it similar qualities to those witnessed on high. Worse stutters and fluidity issues, yet the FPS is above 60 at all times!

EDIT: I could try to take some video of it in the coming days...

Also, forgot to mention that I've lowered the res to 1600x900 and played in campaign mode, low settings, and gotten even WORSE stuttering despite not maxing out the GPU (70-80&#37 and maintaining 60 FPS. CPU was less taxed as well. Really wonder what the hell is going on.

 

[mfenn]

Based on what you are describing, I'm thinking that this is a software problem more than a hardware problem. Here's a few things to try:
- Make sure that you have all background processes closed, especially programs that poll the hardware such as: MSI Afterburner, CPU-Z, any utilities that came with the mobo, etc.
- Close any programs that are downloading stuff in the background, etc.
- Update your BIOS and GPU drivers.
- Set any overclocks back to stock
- Run DPC Latency Checker and watch for spikes

 

[nwkegan]

Running DPC Latency checker... no spikes while I'm lagging, that I can see.

No background programs, no afterburner, no CPU-Z, etc. Up-to-date BIOS and GPU drivers, stock clocks. Same problem.

Thanks for the help btw.

 

[j03h4gLund]

could it just be a shit hd?

 

[coolpurplefan]

Maybe you have spyware/malware or a trojan horse. I know there was a long thread at malwarebytes forum detailing how to get rid of problems on your computer. I don't know if I can find the thread but I think ATF Cleaner and TDS Killer was on the list of programs to use.

EDIT: I found it hehe...
http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=98915

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Clean and fresh windows install solves so many issues.....might be worth a try?

 

[nwkegan]

Thanks for the input, guys.

I have already tried a fresh install of Win7 64 w/ new drivers. No fix.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

hmmm. Try one stick of RAM just for the lols.

PSU: getting any voltage variations?

I'm thinking either GPU or Mobo problem. Got a buddy with a rig you can swap the GPU into and test? Or grab a different GPU and test it on your system? Maybe do a best buy rental?

 

[mfenn]

Maybe do a best buy rental?

Recommending fraud is not a good way to start off on this forum.

 

[mfenn]

could it just be a shit hd?

That is actually a distinct possibility. If a HDD takes a long time to respond to requests due to having marginal sectors, it can really cause the whole system to feel weird.

 

[mfenn]

Running DPC Latency checker... no spikes while I'm lagging, that I can see.

No background programs, no afterburner, no CPU-Z, etc. Up-to-date BIOS and GPU drivers, stock clocks. Same problem.

Thanks for the help btw.

Another thing to check is to make sure that you are not running out of memory. The "Available" field in the task manager is what you want to look at.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

nvm - was going to suggest dpclat but you already doing that.

Mfenn- sorry won't happen again

 

[AnMig]

Few newb suggestions:

Decrease resolution to (1024/720 or something) and run the game and see if the stuttering is still there, if its gone then most likely its a video card issue.

Try forcing setting resolution (AA, AF resolution ect) in the AMD control panel (not application or game). I know there was an issue with Skyrm.

My game crashes in BF3 went away after upgrading my ram to 8gb (was on 3gb), of course I upgraded my Mobo/and CPU to an I5 also

my bet is on the video card.

good luck

 

[nwkegan]

I have memory left, how would I test for a HDD issue?

I've tried lowering res and it does not help the stutter issue in BF3 and the performance in Skyrim is still poor in resolutions as low as 1280x760 or whatever I set it to. There is no reason my system can not handle this friggin' game...

 

[Belegost]

That is actually a distinct possibility. If a HDD takes a long time to respond to requests due to having marginal sectors, it can really cause the whole system to feel weird.

Further, it doesn't even have to be the boot drive. After I got my M4 in my q6600 I thought it felt a little sluggish, but put it down to the old p35 board getting old. But when I got my new 2500K Z68 setup and it still felt slow, it bothered me. Traced it down to a SATA rack I had for hot-swapping drives a few years ago, seems it was going bad, once I pulled it out, boot times were cut in 1/3, load times for games were way better, and overall the system felt as fast as I thought it should.

The OP doesn't mention what HDDs he has, but I really suggest checking the drives well, get a program to read the smart logs. Also, try swapping around sata cables, those can wear out. This is especially relevant if the old cables were used, since the op mentions that it has been this way through more than one build.

 

[nwkegan]

None of the parts from this build came from the last. It's brand new, and has only been in commission for 6 months.

I have http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148701 this HDD.

Will look for a program and try to diagnose the issue, thanks.

EDIT: Scanning for errors now, but according to HD Tune Pro the HDD's health is okay.

 

[mfenn]

Run the Seagate SeaTools full diagnostic, that will find more errors than a generic test.