Need upgrade, or underperforming?

[nwkegan]

I did not find a full diagnostic option in SeaTools, but I ran all of the basic tests without error.

 

[mfenn]

What about temperatures? Have you checked your CPU and GPU temps under load?

 

[j03h4gLund]

You may just have a faulty motherboard. If it was me, I would swap that out first if its possible to RMA. The mobo has way more going on than any other part, but maybe it's your dimm slots that are broken. Try moving the RAM to dimm's 3 and 4.. What do you think mfenn?

 

[DominionSeraph]

OP, try a different monitor. Something's really funky if you're running with vsync on and showing a solid 60fps and seeing stuttering. ANY miss of a frame drops framerate at least in half with vsync on. If you're seeing massive stuttering you'd have to be missing tons of frames -- i.e., only getting 10-15fps.

There seems to be a massive disconnect between the 60Hz timing and the output you're seeing. If everything on the software side is showing 60fps (and properly showing higher with vsync off) it really sounds as though everything underneath is working fine, but you have some massive display bug.

 

[nwkegan]

My temps are okay on both the CPU/GPU. I've run Prime95 for ~12 hours without error, too.

How should I check the motherboard? I can def move the RAM over.

The stuttering isn't quite massive. BF3 on low settings is absolutely playable and quite smooth aside from the drops, though they ARE annoying as hell and detract a great deal from my experience. With Skyrim, the game also plays at a high framerate - it was actually worse before; the patches and various mods I've installed have helped some - it's just jerky (especially while turning.) It SHOULD all be smooth, though, which is what irks me. Spent $60 I could have saved on Skyrim...

I'll see if I can try a different monitor, too.

Some games play better than others, which leads me to believe it might instead be a software/driver issue. I know some other folks on OCN/TH are getting similar problems (and similar readouts on the BF3 perf monitor.) It just seems awfully unlucky, and a bit peculiar, that both Skyrim AND BF3 would have issues on my comp.

TF2 runs between ~150-220 FPS on maxed settings, and with less than full GPU power. L4D2 was flawless maxed when I played it; might download it again and see if it's still that way.

 

[mfenn]

Not a bad idea to try to move some DIMMs around. Though if there is a memory problem, I would expect it to manifest with crashes instead of strange game slowdowns.

A couple more ideas:
- Make sure that there isn't some high level of AA or AF being forced on in the driver.
- Follow Dominion's advice and try a different monitor. Also, try changing input types (VGA to DVI or vis versa) on the same monitor.

 

[nwkegan]

Not a bad idea to try to move some DIMMs around. Though if there is a memory problem, I would expect it to manifest with crashes instead of strange game slowdowns.

A couple more ideas:
- Make sure that there isn't some high level of AA or AF being forced on in the driver.
- Follow Dominion's advice and try a different monitor. Also, try changing input types (VGA to DVI or vis versa) on the same monitor.

I'll swap the DIMMs around ASAP; I ordered 8GB of DDR3 and will run 2 dual channels for 12 combined gigabytes, or if that's unstable just the 8GB. I also have a core i5 2500k processor on the way, though I'll avoid changing more than one thing at a time for diagnostic purposes.

Overall, I posit that it's a software issue. Skyrim, on ultra with AA/AF turned off, runs VERY SMOOTHLY now, it just stutters at parts. GPU usage is friggin below 100% sitting between 70 and 85, and CPU usage is NOT MAXED. Plenty of available memory. No errant processes (that I can identify), no spyware, no malware... Weird.

I'm running DVI, will take the converter off and try VGA. Will also scrounge for another monitor. Reporting back tomorrow most likely.

Thanks for the continued attention mfenn; I appreciate that you take time out of your day to help me. Thanks goes out to all other contributors as well!

 

[mfenn]

Overall, I posit that it's a software issue. Skyrim, on ultra with AA/AF turned off, runs VERY SMOOTHLY now, it just stutters at parts.

AHA! I'm betting that you are running out of VRAM with your 1GB card. AA is extremely VRAM-intensive, it can easily double the game's requirement.

Thanks for the continued attention mfenn; I appreciate that you take time out of your day to help me. Thanks goes out to all other contributors as well!

No prob, sorry I couldn't respond for a couple of days, was traveling.

 

[nwkegan]

Okay, so I've installed the 8GB of RAM; it changed nothing, but I wasn't expecting much to begin with. I suppose I should still try a different configuration since it's the same 2 slots, though.

I still don't have another monitor to try, and I ONLY have the DVI ports on the back of my video card.

As for the VRAM thing, that makes sense to me, but the stuttering occurs even in the absence of MSAA, AF, and FXAA.

 

[mfenn]

Yeah, the stuttering is probably due to some other gremlin, but the MSAA was why you are getting low framerates. You should be able to enable FXAA if you want though, it is not "true" AA as such, but instead a smoothing filter applied during post-processing.

Let's see if the new CPU helps, if not I'm thinking that you have something wrong with your storage subsystem.

 

[upsdriver]

Your framerates are fine for your rig. An i3 2100 is not going to give you incredible frames in bf3 at @1080p in multiplayer. You need a quad core and hyperthreading is not a substitute.

Your stuttering issue sounds driver related. Have you tried to uninstall your drivers and reinstalling them?

 

[nwkegan]

I installed the 2500k with the Hyper 212. I'm really nervous about having potentially damaged something plus mucking up the install, even though everything seems to be running fine. Will almost definitely reapply the thermal paste as some leaked out of the sides, and my temps, while not high, aren't as low as they could be.

Didn't help my performance issues, though. I mean, it does seem to have had some effect on the overall fluidity and in stemming the rate of hang-ups, but I still get the same issues with both games.

upsdriver: I have uninstalled/reinstalled drivers, uninstalled/reinstalled Windows 7, tried numerous optimization tweaks, increased power plan to high, etc. All to no avail.

 

[mfenn]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured would happen. Do you have a spare hard drive and SATA cable laying around? Try doing a clean Windows install onto it (also use a different SATA port on the mobo) and see what happens. You don't have do blow away your existing install, just unhook your drives and do a clean install onto the new disk. Don't bother even entering a CD key for Windows, it will work without one for 30 days, plenty of time to test.

 

[nwkegan]

Hmm, I don't have a spare HDD, shoot! Outrageous HDD prices recently, too... is there any way I can test this without one, or am I gonna have to drop the $$ on a new drive?

Also, is it possible I failed to hook up a power cable or something somewhere? Maybe I just put it together poorly? I dunno. I'll try anything to fix it at this point.

 

[mfenn]

Beg, borrow, steal? :awe: Maybe buy a small SSD like the 64GB Crucial M4? That'll give you a nice day-to-day boost so it would turn out to be a complete waste if it wasn't the issue.

Also, have you tried unplugging and unnecessary USB devices and add-in cards? Also disconnect the optical drive, we're basically trying to strip the system down to the bare minimum to eliminate as much as possible.

Basically, at this point we have a few things that haven't been changed:
- Storage
- PSU
- Mobo
- GPU

Of those, I think that storage is the most likely given the symptoms, but it could realistically be anything. I doubt the PSU would cause this, a lack of power typically just results in a crash. I suppose there is a remote chance that the GPU could be overheating or something, try manually changing the fan speed to 100%.

 

[nwkegan]

I'll watch the prices and consider snatching one. I have unplugged most USB devices from my computer, and after the Windows reinstall I made sure to leave it bare save for the essentials. Maybe I should try a different mouse/keyboard setup.

Something interesting is that Skyrim seems to run better when FRAPs is recording... Why would that be? Goes from stuttering to close (not quite) to ideal, nearly completely smooth. Stays at 60 FPS, too.

 

[mfenn]

Do you happen to have your HDD set to go to sleep in the Windows power profile?

 

[nwkegan]

It's set to never turn off. Currently using the high performance power plan.

 

[K40]

Here is my question. When you are monitoring using Afterburner do you have vram being monitored? BF3 at 1080p can eat a 1gb frame buffer to shreds. For 1gb cards I wouldn't (IMO) use anti-aliasing ( MSAA / post processing) or bloom.

Also what player counts on the servers when you notice the issues the most?

Sky Rim, can't say much on. But from my understanding it is also fairly VRam intensive.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

 

[nwkegan]

For some reason, I can't monitor VRAM with Afterburner as the option is not available in the monitoring settings. I have MSAA/FXAA off, bloom off, low settings, 1x AF, no blur, vsync on (unplayable with vsync off) and it STILL does it. Hell, I've turned the resolution down to 640x480 and gone into campaign mode and the blips still occur.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FbLB9T44Wis

This video shows what I see on MY perf monitor to a T every time I play BF3 with it enabled. Some have suggested that it's the monitor itself causing the issue, but I noticed it before I knew the feature existed, plus I've tried both hiding AND disabling the graph before playing, yet it's still there in all of its frustration inducing glory.

Setting the FrameRenderAhead limit to 1 just about halves the intensity of the stuttering/spikes, but it does not fix the problem entirely. Any other adjustment of this variable will cause a similar level of stuttering/spiking.

Keep in mind this is with GPU usage below 100%. Turning the settings up enough to bring full load will worsen the problem even further.

At least it's not crashing, I guess. Still, I'd like to play this game the way it was intended to be played - the way I see so many other enthusiasts enjoying themselves.

 

[K40]

This is a long shot, but it may be similar to issues some of us had with the Refractor engine (BF2 / 2142). What are you using for audio? If onboard maybe a test with the audio disabled at BIOS level.

Also may wish to take a look at ram timings, voltages, speed while your in BIOS. Too many times setting timings to auto has given me some very loose timings that starved my CPU.

Here is why I am considering the audio, your performance graph looks dead on to each other. At least at the games current Res. If the game is flooding the onboard audio it can cause weird issues with the CPU. Best way to eliminate the possibilities is to remove it from the equation.

Also another random thought, is your BIOS set for IDE or AHCI access mode? ( Be mindful that changing it needs tweaks first or you will likely BSOD) May I also suggest for grins and giggles a different sata cable, they don't go bad often but they can

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[nwkegan]

I am using onboard audio, RealTek. I have tried disabling the drivers via the OS, but not the BIOS, so I will definitely give that a shot.

Timings should be good, but I will set them again simply to be thorough.

In the BIOS it's set to IDE over AHCI. I plan to do another fresh reinstall if the rest of this stuff doesn't work, so maybe at that point I should try changing to AHCI? Then again, if it DID fix the problem then it might muddy the solution making it more difficult for others to take advantage.

I'll hunt around for a SATA cable; luckily I have two MOBO boxes sitting right next to me.

I appreciate the help greatly!

 

[K40]

I'm currently at work or I would dig the link out of my favorites, but there is a registry tweak that can be done to allow ahci without a re-install

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[mfenn]

I'm currently at work or I would dig the link out of my favorites, but there is a registry tweak that can be done to allow ahci without a re-install

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Here ya go.

 

[K40]

Nice, thank you sir.

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