New overclocker using 2GB RAM

[ecove]

Hi there. I'm really new to overclocking, and I'm having problems with the settings for my RAM, and I was hoping for some suggestions! I'm not a gamer, so I don't need to squeeze every last bit out of my components, but I'd like to get a decent overall speed increase. Here's the key parts to my setup:

Venice 3200
DFI Lanparty Ultra-D
Thermaltake Venus
Fortron Blue Storm
2GB (4x512) OCZ Value VX

I've tried to follow the sticky A64 overclocking guide, and aside from the memory, I've been able to overclock to 2.7Ghz using 270 FSB at 10x multiplier. I'm very happy with that, but I can't seem to get the memory to even run at its stock speed.

Here are the settings I've been trying:

FSB 269
LDT/FSB x3
CPU/FSB x10
CPU VID StartUp
CPU VID Control 1.375
CPU VID Special Control Above 113%
LDT Volts 1.40
Chipset volts 1.70
DRAM volts 3.20

DRAM Req. 180 (9/10)
CPC Disable
CAS 2
RAS to CAS 2
Min RAS 6
Row Precharge 2
Rest of the DRAM settings set to Auto

I gather that it's tricky to get 2GB to run at 1T - this would be nice but I can deal with 2T. I've tested each stick separately single channel (in slot 2) and individually I can get them to go to 2-2-2-6 ~490 (do I have that number right?). But when I start to put them in in in pairs or all 4 together, I can no longer use the same settings - XP keeps rebooting.

Any suggestions? Is this a RAM problem? Settings? The DFI? I really would like to stay with 2GB as again I'm actually not playing games but rather doing DCC (3D using Maya, Photoshop, etc).

 

[o1die]

Normally, you have to use a 2t setting on the command rate when you use all 4 memory slots.

 

[ecove]

Thanks for replying, oldie - as I noted, I've got CPC set to Disabled (ie 2T) so I assume this is not the problem.

By the way, I'm even having trouble with using just 2 sticks of this RAM (either at 1T or 2T) - I only seem to be able to run the memory at its stock timings or higher one stick at a time.

 

[JohnAn2112]

You're going to have to loosen the timings to run all 4 sticks at once. Try 2.5-3-2-10 to see if that's stable.

 

[ecove]

John, thanks - I tried those timings, got into XP for minute, then reboot. I'm trying to learn what's going on here. Why can't I even get 2 sticks to work at slightly aggressive timings, let alone 4? Any ideas as to a) what settings I would use for 2 sticks and b) what is happening when I go up to 4 that I need to loosen settings even further?

 

[Concillian]

How can 2 sticks do in slots 1 and 3 vs. 2 and 4?

Which BIOS are you running?

DFI has three seperate BIOS images with different optimizations for different memory configurations. I'd take a look at these with your memory configuration to find the best match. Typically, there is one set of slots that high voltage memory likes better and one set of slots that low voltage memory likes better. You may have to lower performance significantly from your ideal because you're using the other set of slots.

I'd start by verifying each pair in each set of slots, with each BIOS, and work forward from there.

The DFI board seems picky, but if you spend the time with it, it seems to offer excellent potential. However, there is a definite time commitment to squeeze the max out of the board.

 

[ecove]

Concillian (thanks for the reply) - I tried one pair of sticks in both pairs of slots. I have a couple of ?s about this: first, do I need to test all 4 sticks this way if I've tested each individually and they seem fine individually? Second, I noticed when I tried to boot using just slots 1 and 3, there was a message implying that I should be using slots 2 and 4 if only using one pair of sticks. I hit F1 and continued. Is there typically one pair of slots on this board (i.e. 1 and 3 rather than 2 and 4) that likes high voltage?

I'm using the latest BIOS I could find on DFI's site - 310. Are you saying there are other versions out there I might consider using?

 

[Emultra]

What core revision do you have?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

With the settings you show HTT 269 and 10:9 divider that gives you a ramspeed of over 240mhs DDR480 which is quite an over clock to try and maintain tight timings 2-2-2 with 2 sticks, 4 is out of the question at that speed. That VX can possibly do it with 2 sticks, but it may take 3.4+ volts and I wouldn't go that high without active cooling. With 4 sticks try 2.5-3-3-6 2T, but you will most likely have to use a lower divider like 6:5 or even 3:2.

With 4 sticks packed in there together and 3.2v, you ram has to be overheating without active cooling. You will probably have to drop the voltage with 4 sticks in, just because of how close together they are.

You should test ram seperately from CPU by using a low CPU multi to find your best speed and timings. Then try and combine your best CPU and ram overclocks.

 

[ecove]

Emultra - sorry, no idea - where can I find this?

GuitarDaddy - excellent info, thanks. I should've guessed that packing 4 sticks in at such a high voltage would create some heat issues.

So I think my plan to use 2GB of the Value VX may not be ideal. I'm thinking I should RMA it. So my new question: if I do decide to replace the Value VX, what would be my best option for 2GB of RAM, knowing my components and settings? I'd really like to spend no more than $250 or so. Options I've been looking into are 2 1GB sticks of Patriot (could only find it at http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant...uct_Code=140291&Category_Code=DDR-PDP) or 4 512s of single-sided. Any suggestions?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

That patriot is the "stuff" IMHO, excellent price for TCCD with brainpower and 2-3-2-5. That is exactly what I would get if I were buying ram right now

 

[ecove]

Any thoughts on komusa, in particular this stuff?: http://www.komusa.com/2gbkit1pc40d1.html

About $60 cheaper than the Patriot.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I never heard of that one? its higher latency than the Patriot 2.5 vs 2.0

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ecove
Emultra - sorry, no idea - where can I find this?

GuitarDaddy - excellent info, thanks. I should've guessed that packing 4 sticks in at such a high voltage would create some heat issues.

So I think my plan to use 2GB of the Value VX may not be ideal. I'm thinking I should RMA it. So my new question: if I do decide to replace the Value VX, what would be my best option for 2GB of RAM, knowing my components and settings? I'd really like to spend no more than $250 or so. Options I've been looking into are 2 1GB sticks of Patriot (could only find it at http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant...uct_Code=140291&Category_Code=DDR-PDP) or 4 512s of single-sided. Any suggestions?

The consistent message I hear about 1GB sticks is that they just don't overclock well. One fellow on DFI Street can get his PDP memory (same stuff you're thinking of buying) only to HTT 207 even with loosened timings. So if you want to overclock, stay away from 1GB sticks.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: ecove
Emultra - sorry, no idea - where can I find this?

GuitarDaddy - excellent info, thanks. I should've guessed that packing 4 sticks in at such a high voltage would create some heat issues.

So I think my plan to use 2GB of the Value VX may not be ideal. I'm thinking I should RMA it. So my new question: if I do decide to replace the Value VX, what would be my best option for 2GB of RAM, knowing my components and settings? I'd really like to spend no more than $250 or so. Options I've been looking into are 2 1GB sticks of Patriot (could only find it at http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant...uct_Code=140291&Category_Code=DDR-PDP) or 4 512s of single-sided. Any suggestions?

The consistent message I hear about 1GB sticks is that they just don't overclock well. One fellow on DFI Street can get his PDP memory (same stuff you're thinking of buying) only to HTT 207 even with loosened timings. So if you want to overclock, stay away from 1GB sticks.

You're right, but if he wants to just overclock the cpu and use a divider than the 2gigs is fine. That is the debate I am going through for my X2 system in a month or two. I use Photoshop, Autocad etc so I am thinking that the 2gigs at spec is more important than the 1gig at high overclock. It is a tough call

 

[ecove]

Yup, michael, I've come to terms with the fact that if I want 2GB, I won't be able to do much with the memory. I'm ready to use a divider, loose timings, etc., as long as I can maintain a pretty fair CPU overclock.

So what's my solution, if I'd like to try and maintain my 270 FSB? 2 sticks of 1GB (eg PDP)? 4 sticks of 512 (and single sided or double sided)? It sounds like I probably can't go with the high voltages I was using with the VX.

I've taken the Value VX out by the way, and have 4 512 sticks of Corsair Value running at the second lowest divider...should I just stick with that?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ecove
Yup, michael, I've come to terms with the fact that if I want 2GB, I won't be able to do much with the memory. I'm ready to use a divider, loose timings, etc., as long as I can maintain a pretty fair CPU overclock.

So what's my solution, if I'd like to try and maintain my 270 FSB? 2 sticks of 1GB (eg PDP)? 4 sticks of 512 (and single sided or double sided)? It sounds like I probably can't go with the high voltages I was using with the VX.

I've taken the Value VX out by the way, and have 4 512 sticks of Corsair Value running at the second lowest divider...should I just stick with that?

I'm a little confused. In your original post, you say you're at 269 FSB with a memory divider of 180. That implies a memory speed of over 240. Yet you say the memory won't run stock (which would be 200). Remember, that "180" is the memory divider, not the actual memory speed.

But even assuming the memory is running sub-200,, you're not going to gain much by going to the 2x1GB PDP memory (I'll bet the overall system performance difference will be less than 10%).

 

[ecove]

Let's see if I can recall correctly - I don't think I was able to get Windows to boot using 4 sticks of the Value VX unless I used the lowest memory divider - 100 - at stock timings (maybe it was unstable even then?). I'm probably fuzzy on the math/logic - i.e. if I was using 269 FSB with a 100 divider, what would the speed be?

Shira - when you say "But even assuming the memory is running sub-200,, you're not going to gain much by going to the 2x1GB PDP memory (I'll bet the overall system performance difference will be less than 10%). " do you mean there would be a ~10% gain over the system when using the VX, or the settings I'm using now (Corsair using a 100 divider at stock settings)?

I guess in the end I'm really just looking for a suggestion as to my best memory option given the other components/settings for 2GB for under $250.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: ecove
Concillian (thanks for the reply) - I tried one pair of sticks in both pairs of slots. I have a couple of ?s about this: first, do I need to test all 4 sticks this way if I've tested each individually and they seem fine individually? Second, I noticed when I tried to boot using just slots 1 and 3, there was a message implying that I should be using slots 2 and 4 if only using one pair of sticks. I hit F1 and continued. Is there typically one pair of slots on this board (i.e. 1 and 3 rather than 2 and 4) that likes high voltage?

I'm using the latest BIOS I could find on DFI's site - 310. Are you saying there are other versions out there I might consider using?

Check this thread. There is a TON of information on the DFI-STREET forums that are not available on the regular DFI site, including specific overclocker oriented BIOSes directly from the board designer:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11617

The part on specific slots is here:

Since the 3/16/05 bios sticks could go into Yellow or Orange slots and NOT have warning to place sticks in Orange slots. This means bios with ram tables 3/16 and 3/26 can have two stick dual channel in either Yellow or Orange slots.

Now knowing that you should be able to take advantage of this feature for "however much" you find it worth.
Yellow slots 1 and 3 are supposed better suited for HI voltage and therefore UTT/BH-5 types of memory.
Orange slots 2 and 4 are supposed better suited for normal lower voltages and therefore TCCD/TCCC/TCC5 types of memory.

I know if you find the limit for single sticks separately they will generally not run at that in dual channel, maybe a few MHz lower. I assume the same is true of all four vs. what a set of two will do.

I sould look at pair 1 in slots 1 and 3 then 2 and 4
then pair 2 in 1 and 3 then 2 and 4

I would start at ~ 10-15 MHz below the lowest of all of those, then slowly work your way up to find a maximum.

Personally, at this point you have 2GB of memory. I'd work with what you already have rather than go through the trouble of getting 2x1GB.

 

[xylem]

I am running a similar configuration. I have a 3000+ on the Ultra-D, at 9x278 (2.5 GHz), and am using 4 x 512MB sticks of Mushkin Blue (original BH-5 in this case), with a memory setting of 166 (5/6), for a memory clock of ~228 MHz, and timings of 2-2-2-7-2T. I have mem volts set to 3.1 + .03 option. I am using the beta 510-2 bios. The ram speed is calculated by bus x DRAM Req fraction, (in my case 278 x 5/6 = ~228). I suggest trying similar settings, and tuning from there, since VX is similar to BH-5. I also suggest lowering CPU multiplier until you can find a good sweet spot for your memory, to prevent CPU instability from having any chance of affecting your results.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: xylem
I am running a similar configuration. I have a 3000+ on the Ultra-D, at 9x278 (2.5 GHz), and am using 4 x 512MB sticks of Mushkin Blue (original BH-5 in this case), with a memory setting of 166 (5/6), for a memory clock of ~228 MHz, and timings of 2-2-2-7-2T. I have mem volts set to 3.1 + .03 option. I am using the beta 510-2 bios. The ram speed is calculated by bus x DRAM Req fraction, (in my case 278 x 5/6 = ~228). I suggest trying similar settings, and tuning from there, since VX is similar to BH-5. I also suggest lowering CPU multiplier until you can find a good sweet spot for your memory, to prevent CPU instability from having any chance of affecting your results.

Yep, that's pretty good RAM too.

I have 4x512 myself and am running the RAM 270 MHz at stock timings with 2T. I cannot budge this thing even 10 MHz beyond that but I'm very happy. That DFI board is a good one, if I was building one now that's what I'd be going for.....