New Rig

[kilcan]

I have posted some specifics in other forums, but I was hoping to get some overall advice here for the new system I'm looking to build.

Motherboard: MachSpeed MSNV-939 ATX
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400 2.2ghz (Dual Core)
Video Card: eVGA 7300 (256mb)
RAM: 2 GB DDR PC3200
HD: 130GB Maxtor
Case: Sonata II or Enermax Chakra

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Any advice on the build as a whole or parts in specific is appreciated. I was thinking of getting a 420W power supply - have heard that Antec is a good brand. And also, would I need to purchase additional fans for this rig? Thanks so much for any and all advice.

Oh and also. I currently have about 1.5 GB DDR RAM PC 2100. If I mix the 2100 with the 3200, what exactly would that do to my performance? If say, I put in 2 x 512 PC2100, then 2 x 512 3200, would they all run at the 2100 speed, or if I put the 2100 in their dual channel slots and the 3200 in theirs, would each set run at their respective speed?

 

[engiNURD]

Yes, they would all run at the lowest common speed, PC2100, which usually slows down the system performance. What is your budget? Where will you be buying your parts? Don't bother with the old PC2100, the 2GB will be good enough.

 

[kilcan]

I am hitting a computer expo tomorrow first thing in the morning. I'm hoping to get some good deals there. I've been pricing out things on the tigerdirect.com site and so far it seems that I can build my system for around 650 bucks. I'm ok with that. I've been tweaking specs a little (the motherboard was making me nervous so Ive changed it) and now it looks something like this:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2.20GHz (199.99)
Asus A8N5X NVIDIA Socket 939 ATX Motherboard (79.99)
EVGA GeForce 7600 GS / 256MB GDDR2 / SLI / PCI Express (109.99)
Ultra 1024MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz (x2) (99.99)
Thermaltake / PurePower / 430-Watt (42.99)

I was also thinking of getting a case fan
Ultra Black/Titanium 120mm Ball Bearing Fan (9.99)

And I'm still contemplating a case but I was thinking it would run me anywhere from 30-60 bucks.

 

[yh125d]

Replace that vid card with this one. Its much better and is the same price, + a $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130062

 

[engiNURD]

Computer expo? You'll most likely get better deals online. You could build a nice AM2 or C2D system for $650. No point in buying a NEW system using parts that have been discontinued (socket 939).

$163 - Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2MB L2 Cache
$105 - Biostar TForce965PT LGA 775 Intel P965 Express
$70 - Kingston 1GB DDR2-667 KVR667D2/1GR
$110 - eVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 560Mhz 256MB ($20MIR)
$55 - WD Caviar WD1600JS 160GB 7200RPM SATA300 8MB Cache
$31 - Lite-On 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-16A7S-05
$40 - Ultra V Series 500W Power Supply ($40 - $40MIR + ~$10 Shipping)
$40 - Ultra Wizard Blue Mid ATX Tower Case ($40 - $40MIR + ~$10 Shipping)
==========
$615 + tax and shipping - $100 MIRs = ~$600

Here's some justification for going with this setup over an AMD:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2903

 

[kilcan]

Since I am really not very computer savvy, is there any way you have time to "dumb down" that article for me? Sort of put into layman's terms why an Intel would be preferred over an AMD? I am not arguing, but I've always done AMD, basically because I had AMD originally years ago and just continued on down the AMD line. I also was under the impression that the Athlon Dual core 4400 and up were better gaming machines than an Intel any day of the week (just quoting other posts). I'd love some "dumbed down" reasons why that isn't true. I really appreciate the time you are taking, thanks.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

In simple terms, Athlon64 kicked Pentium 4's ass. Now since July '06, Core 2 Duo is kicking Athlon64 X2's ass. They traded places.
High-res gaming is still largely GPU-limited but fire up video encoding or other CPU-intensive tasks and you will find at the same clocks, Core 2 > A64.

 

[kilcan]

Hmm, now my question is this. I was going to harvest parts from my current PC to build the new rig (harddrive which is brand new, cd roms). Are these going to be compatible? I have a Maxtor 130GB HD and since it is new Id rather not need to replace it, although I could if I had to.

Also, I was under the impression that a computer expo is the way to go with computer parts (save on shipping, lower prices, etc). Is that info wrong?

(sorry for all the questions, I really do appreciate the help)

But with the Core 2, would this be a good motherboard (since it supports a good amount of max RAM, and has a pci-express slot)? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131046

 

[engiNURD]

Yes, you could use your "old" HDD in the new system. Is it IDE or SATA? If its SATA, then you probably don't need to replace it. If its IDE, you might want to get a SATA drive, since it would be much faster (noticeably).

It really depends on the expo. In socal, the computer expo's prices are generally the same as NewEgg and other online stores. Since the prices are similar and there is an entrance and parking fee, it's not really your best option unless you need the parts immediately. If you can wait 3 days, then online is the way to go. However, I don't know which expo you're going to, so the prices may be different. Are you in a state that NewEgg charges tax to? If not, then Newegg is probably your best bet (over TD).

The Biostar I linked above would be a better choice over the P5B-VM, because of its chipset (P965 Express), unless you want onboard video/micro ATX form factor. Also, when you learn more about computers, you may want to overclock. Since these chips have so much headroom, you won't be sacrificing any stability/reliability; and this board will allow for some nice overclocks.

 

[tribbles]

prodigalrebel is correct. The computer industry undergoes a constant seesaw, with momentum shifting to different companies over a period of years. AMD held a clear lead over Intel for a couple of years. This year, Intel holds the performance crown, and that may last for some time.

There is nothing wrong with AMD's Athlon64 line. My last several homebuilt systems used Athlons, and I can highly recommend them. At the same time, Intel's Core 2 Duo is a significant leap over AMD 64 clock-for-clock. I don't build my own systems anymore (I switched to Mac OS and bought a Mac Pro), but if I did, I'd probably be buying Intel right now.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[kilcan]

Ok, after reading enough to make my head swim, I have come up with two possible builds. The AMD build would be around $550, and the Intel would be around $570, so not a huge difference.

AMD:
Case: Rosewill R5601-BK 0.8mm SECC Screw-less Dual 120mm Fans ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Power supply: Ultra V Series 500W Power Supply
Motherboard: ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Toledo 2.4GHz Socket 939 Processor Model ADA4600DAA5CD
RAM: WINTEC AMPO 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Video Card: EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16

Intel:

Case: Rosewill R5601-BK 0.8mm SECC Screw-less Dual 120mm Fans ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Power supply: Ultra V Series 500W Power Supply
Motherboard: ASUS P5L-VM 1394 LGA 775 Intel 945G Micro ATX Intel
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6400
RAM: Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model KVR667D2
Video Card: EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16

For a $20 difference, how much difference is there between the two rigs in performance terms? And, I am not one to upgrade my computer often. I like to basically beat it into the ground until it runs like crap and I HAVE to buy a new one. How long (obviously a rough estimate) would each of these systems last me? Am I looking at having to upgrade next year, or would I be ok for a few years? For example, right now I am running off of an AMD Athlon XP 1700+ 1.1ghz with 768mb of PC2100 RAM in it and a GeForce 5900 128mb Video Card, and I am just now saying "hmm I really need to upgrade". Yet I do fairly intensive photo editing and animation on it plus I've been playing EverQuest 2 on it since it came out, and I haven't really minded how it ran until recently it started crapping out on me. I would like to get the most from my money without going overboard, but leaving my self some "growing room" so that I am not replacing the entire system in a year.

Thanks again in advance for all your advice.

 

[engiNURD]

Look here: http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2903&p=3

So if you ran it at stock, the Intel would still outperform the 4400+, even at only 1.8Ghz/800Mhz FSB. I strongly suggest you get the Biostar TForce965P board and run the system slightly OC'd, to at least 2.4Ghz. This will result in a HUGE boost of performance, for not much extra money. If you want to know what kind of performance increase, it would be comparable to the 2.4Ghz E6600 chip in those graphs in the article above.

E4300: 9 * 200 = 1.8Ghz
E6600: 9 * 266 = 2.4Ghz

So, bump the FSB to 266, and now you have an E6600 without the price premium (and minus the extra 2MB cache and virtualization). No need for an extra cooler, since the stock intel one is fine up until 2.8Ghz-3Ghz. FYI, the E4300s avg around 2.8-3Ghz, in case you were wondering. Again, there would be no sacrifice of stability with such a modest overclock, and its a fairly easy process now.

How long will this system last? a while. Since you seem leary about OC'ing, get the Biostar board, but run everything at stock speeds for now. Then, when you think its running a bit slow, give it the modest OC, and you'll notice an improvement in performance.

 

[kilcan]

So, I can switch out to the Biostar board, and then upgrade to DDR2 800 RAM (compatible for that board). Two last questions I think then.

One, is it better with this board to do 2x512mb RAM sticks or am I fine/comparable doing (1) 1GB stick?

Two, I'm "leary" about Overclocking, because I don't know what it is or how to do it, LOL.

 

[kilcan]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help with this. I purchased everything a few minutes ago and Im really happy with it. Made some last minute changes and the final result is:

Case: Rosewill R5604-TBK 0.8mm SECC Screw-less Dual 120mm Fans
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo e6400 2.13mhz
Motherboard: Biostar TForce965PT
Video Card: eVGA GeForce 7600GT 256mb
RAM: 2GB DDR2 800 PC2 6400
HardDrive: Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
Power Supply: Ultra VSeries 500W

It is more than I had wanted to spend, but I realized that I did need 2gb ram to not be cheating the full performance of things, and I sprung for a SATA harddrive to go with things instead of my IDE that I had purchased not too long ago. My mother only has a 30GB Harddrive so I think I will install my old one into hers

Again, thanks so much for all of your help. I definetly appreciate it.

 

[engiNURD]

No prob. To answer your question about the ram, running 2 sticks would be best because of dual channel. Overclocking is running the hardware higher than its rated speeds. It used to be rather difficult and would cause system instability and supposedly shorten the life of the hardware. However, with all the headroom in these Core2Duo CPUs, there is no sacrifice of stability. Also, with the new mobos, its much easier to OC than it used to be. If you would like to get into it, google around for some core2duo overclocking guides. I believe there are a few here at the AT forums, but I don't have the links handy. Just search, and you will find, hehe. Good luck with your new build. You could always OC later, if you don't want to get into it right now. Your system should be crazy fast still, even at stock speeds.

 

[Boyo]

Just wanted to say what a smart move you made by going with 2GB of RAM. You really built in a longer shelf life with that upgrade. Enjoy the new rig, and do overclock your system. It's so easy, they have 13 year old kids on this board OCing their rigs. Your chip is built for OCing, so dig right in once you get settled.