New to WoW

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CVSiN
peoples are confused.. they think it should be like EQ warriors that were damage machines....

Warriors were damage machines in EQ? And for how long exactly did you play EQ?

from release to POP release...

never seen a Warrior with 2 primals?
can outdamage a ranger hands down...
crits were insane in EQ for warriors and DW was a viable spec.. where in WoW 2 hand and DW is worthless for a warrior..

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Rogues are dime a dozen, and Blizzard has posted stats that prove they are the most popular class. In raids we're pretty unimportant, the group could care less if we leave. Most classes can beat rogues in duels assuming they know what they're doing (there's a trinket that allows anybody to take us out of stealth before the fighting even begins). Soloing doesn't seem so hot... my mage buddy could AOE several mobs his level, if I got one add my level it was time to either run, use my special cooldown abilities, use a potion, etc. Mages AOE is indispensable in instances, rogues are dispensable.

I'd be a mage if I knew better when I'd started.

I don't agree that rogues are dispensible. Ever heard of cheap shot ability that can stun for 5 secs (uninterruptable), or kidney shot that can stun 5 secs (uninterruptable) as well? Or kick, that can silence a spell caster? Or gouge, which stuns for 3-6 secs (interruptable)? Or how about 50-60% Evade spell? Or how about the mind numbing poison on blades that disrupt spellcasters? Good luck trying to hit something after a 10 sec stun while being beat on, or even trying to cast a spell after coming out of it.

Heh, I've played a rogue long enough to know what we can do. 99% of mobs where stun would actually matter are immune to it. Gouge is stupid in raids and gone almost instantly. Evade is just trying to save your ass usually, if a rogue is tanking that group/raid has problems.

I dont think you have if you posted the first statement up there....
if you cant take out Elites your level with little down time or 2-3 adds of equal level or below then you arnt very well equipped or you dont know how to play your rogue...

I can solo same level elites with 0 problem...
i can take on 3 L50 mobs and win 99% of the time...

Duels mean crap... in the open playing field in the area or in true PVP where the rogue is in his element rogue will win 99% of the time...
You do know that Stealth isnt calculated correctly agaisnt other people of your same faction.. they can see you at much greater ranges than the Horde can see alliance or vice versa..
also in duels target never drops when stealth works unless you use vanish at beginning of fight... which no rogue ever will.... this lets every other class see you even when stealthed in regular duels....
even if they cannot see you in stealth... this is a bug based on friendly targetting of stealhed chars.. duel does not release the target as it should before the count down is over...
the fix for this would be as the last number counts down to turn you red it should clear all targets .. then it would work correctly and the rogue would be in his element.. as it is now stealth is nearly worthless in duels...

a Combat rogue can with a warrior to taunt off them be a major asset in instances...
our main rogues average hits with the best equipment in the game at this point are well into the 500s with crits over 1400... and remeber folks these are fast weps with crit builds.. they crit ALOT...
his latest toy is a dagger that procs 4 seconds of nothing but crits and 100% hits...
this toy procs alot.... (multiple times per fight usually) and durign this time 100% of all hits land....includign specials and they are all crits...

rogues are freaking incredible with the right grear and are very useful in raids...

 

[Muhadib]

EQ2 Ru1S j00!!!

WoW sUxz0rz!!!!

Just kidding, I think both game are good and spend way to much time with both of them.

 

[zzzz]

^^
1) can you solo princess Theadras(sp?)? ( I think she is lvl 51 elite)
2) what hit are those of average 500 on equal level mobs without being crits? Is it anything other that evis?
3) Deathstriker has a 3s proc IIRC, and about 2-3 % chance to proc.(May have been upto 5%)

I agree that for duels rogues lose the advantage somewhat.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Rogues are dime a dozen, and Blizzard has posted stats that prove they are the most popular class. In raids we're pretty unimportant, the group could care less if we leave. Most classes can beat rogues in duels assuming they know what they're doing (there's a trinket that allows anybody to take us out of stealth before the fighting even begins). Soloing doesn't seem so hot... my mage buddy could AOE several mobs his level, if I got one add my level it was time to either run, use my special cooldown abilities, use a potion, etc. Mages AOE is indispensable in instances, rogues are dispensable.

I'd be a mage if I knew better when I'd started.

I don't agree that rogues are dispensible. Ever heard of cheap shot ability that can stun for 5 secs (uninterruptable), or kidney shot that can stun 5 secs (uninterruptable) as well? Or kick, that can silence a spell caster? Or gouge, which stuns for 3-6 secs (interruptable)? Or how about 50-60% Evade spell? Or how about the mind numbing poison on blades that disrupt spellcasters? Good luck trying to hit something after a 10 sec stun while being beat on, or even trying to cast a spell after coming out of it.

Heh, I've played a rogue long enough to know what we can do. 99% of mobs where stun would actually matter are immune to it. Gouge is stupid in raids and gone almost instantly. Evade is just trying to save your ass usually, if a rogue is tanking that group/raid has problems.

I dont think you have if you posted the first statement up there....
if you cant take out Elites your level with little down time or 2-3 adds of equal level or below then you arnt very well equipped or you dont know how to play your rogue...

I can solo same level elites with 0 problem...
i can take on 3 L50 mobs and win 99% of the time...

Duels mean crap... in the open playing field in the area or in true PVP where the rogue is in his element rogue will win 99% of the time...
You do know that Stealth isnt calculated correctly agaisnt other people of your same faction.. they can see you at much greater ranges than the Horde can see alliance or vice versa..
also in duels target never drops when stealth works unless you use vanish at beginning of fight... which no rogue ever will.... this lets every other class see you even when stealthed in regular duels....
even if they cannot see you in stealth... this is a bug based on friendly targetting of stealhed chars.. duel does not release the target as it should before the count down is over...
the fix for this would be as the last number counts down to turn you red it should clear all targets .. then it would work correctly and the rogue would be in his element.. as it is now stealth is nearly worthless in duels...

a Combat rogue can with a warrior to taunt off them be a major asset in instances...
our main rogues average hits with the best equipment in the game at this point are well into the 500s with crits over 1400... and remeber folks these are fast weps with crit builds.. they crit ALOT...
his latest toy is a dagger that procs 4 seconds of nothing but crits and 100% hits...
this toy procs alot.... (multiple times per fight usually) and durign this time 100% of all hits land....includign specials and they are all crits...

rogues are freaking incredible with the right grear and are very useful in raids...

I agree. I never really appreciated how much damage rogues could do until I started playing other classes. With the right build and equipment, a rogue's damage output is the highest in the game against a single target. They can't tank like a plate class, but they are far more durable than a mage (my second character is a priest, I'm all too familiar with how quick cloth classes can get murdered when they draw too much agro).

Mage's may be a little more useful than rogues in groups because of AOE spells and polymorph, but rogues are far from useless (as many people make them out to be).

Edit: I do agree with AA that there are too many rogues. Every census I've taken on my server has shown 5-7% priests and mages and 20-22% rogues. A recent census I took during prime time play hours only turned up 8 priests over lvl 55 and 40+ rogues.

 

[bcterps]

If you want to be able to level as quickly as possible, play a pally or rogue. If you want to be a class in demand at end game, be a priest, druid, mage, warrior. At level 60, rogues and pallys are a dime a dozen, unless you are in a solid guild, you're not gonna get invited to a lot of instance runs. I'm a 58 mage, and I'm constantly getting invited to do BRD/BRS. I can't imagine what it would be if I was a priest.

Oh, and if you think pally's can tank as well as warriors, you are sadly mistaken. Warriors are incredibly effective if you know how to use them properly. Well balanced groups are incredibly important once you hit the high lvl instances (BRD and up). A warrior/priest combo is way more effective than pally/pally or pally/priest combo.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Advice: Don't be a warrior!

Be a priest, mage, or paladin for the easiest time getting groups.

I agree. I don't have as much fun playing a warrior, the other classes have more interesting abilities.

and warrior is not as simple as you think. if you want simple, play a pally, i have a lvl 40. all you do is attack, seal of crusader, heal yourself, repeat

To be honest, I think Paladins get a bit more complicated than that, perhaps at a bit higher level than 40.

It's been more complicated than that for me since level 15 or so. Maybe earlier. Maybe he never learned judgement or blessings at the trainer. Or other seals, for that matter.

Alright, here is what i do.


Every five minutes: Blessing of might
Every 30 secs: Seal of Crusader
Constant: Devotion Aura
Attack
Health runs low: heal
health runs low and mana is low: Throw up devine protection, chug mana potions, heal to full health
attack
Health runs low again: Blessing of protection
Heal to full health or apply bandages
Attack
if about to die and out of mana, hit the "I Win" macro i wrote (Auto targets self and applies Lay on Hands)
attack
About to die: Chug health potion
Repeat

if they are able to kill me, they deserve to be able to kill me

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: benchiu
Oh, and if you think pally's can tank as well as warriors, you are sadly mistaken. Warriors are incredibly effective if you know how to use them properly. Well balanced groups are incredibly important once you hit the high lvl instances (BRD and up). A warrior/priest combo is way more effective than pally/pally or pally/priest combo.

High lvl warriors claim that the pally's agro generation seal works as well, if not better, than warriors' agro generation abilities. I don't know if it's totally true, but it was enough to make a friend of mine stop playing his warrior until the issue is addressed.

If the servers weren't so overpopulated with pallies, I would see very little reason to play a warrior.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Advice: Don't be a warrior!

Be a priest, mage, or paladin for the easiest time getting groups.

I agree. I don't have as much fun playing a warrior, the other classes have more interesting abilities.

and warrior is not as simple as you think. if you want simple, play a pally, i have a lvl 40. all you do is attack, seal of crusader, heal yourself, repeat

To be honest, I think Paladins get a bit more complicated than that, perhaps at a bit higher level than 40.

It's been more complicated than that for me since level 15 or so. Maybe earlier. Maybe he never learned judgement or blessings at the trainer. Or other seals, for that matter.

Alright, here is what i do.


Every five minutes: Blessing of might
Every 30 secs: Seal of Crusader
Constant: Devotion Aura
Attack
Health runs low: heal
health runs low and mana is low: Throw up devine protection, chug mana potions, heal to full health
attack
Health runs low again: Blessing of protection
Heal to full health or apply bandages
Attack
if about to die and out of mana, hit the "I Win" macro i wrote (Auto targets self and applies Lay on Hands)
attack
About to die: Chug health potion
Repeat

if they are able to kill me, they deserve to be able to kill me

No judgements? Shame on you. My tactics are nothing like yours even with judgements. And in groups they change yet again.

 

[Babbles]

I am a cow druid engineer for the win.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CVSiN
peoples are confused.. they think it should be like EQ warriors that were damage machines....

Warriors were damage machines in EQ? And for how long exactly did you play EQ?

from release to POP release...

never seen a Warrior with 2 primals?
can outdamage a ranger hands down...
crits were insane in EQ for warriors and DW was a viable spec.. where in WoW 2 hand and DW is worthless for a warrior..

Although this is pretty offtopic, I am just forced to point out that all of the above statements are outrageous falsehoods, whether referring to EQ or WoW.

If you get an invite to group or raid as a warrior - they want you to tank, they could not care less about your dps.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Rogues are dime a dozen, and Blizzard has posted stats that prove they are the most popular class. In raids we're pretty unimportant, the group could care less if we leave. Most classes can beat rogues in duels assuming they know what they're doing (there's a trinket that allows anybody to take us out of stealth before the fighting even begins). Soloing doesn't seem so hot... my mage buddy could AOE several mobs his level, if I got one add my level it was time to either run, use my special cooldown abilities, use a potion, etc. Mages AOE is indispensable in instances, rogues are dispensable.

I'd be a mage if I knew better when I'd started.

I don't agree that rogues are dispensible. Ever heard of cheap shot ability that can stun for 5 secs (uninterruptable), or kidney shot that can stun 5 secs (uninterruptable) as well? Or kick, that can silence a spell caster? Or gouge, which stuns for 3-6 secs (interruptable)? Or how about 50-60% Evade spell? Or how about the mind numbing poison on blades that disrupt spellcasters? Good luck trying to hit something after a 10 sec stun while being beat on, or even trying to cast a spell after coming out of it.

Heh, I've played a rogue long enough to know what we can do. 99% of mobs where stun would actually matter are immune to it. Gouge is stupid in raids and gone almost instantly. Evade is just trying to save your ass usually, if a rogue is tanking that group/raid has problems.

Yeah this hurts defensive warriors as well, gogo caster bosses immune to stun, mez, sleep, poly, silence and bash.

Still given defensive warriors can solo elite casters while laughing at them this is probably a good thing for balance reasons.

 

[miri]

Warriors only have slightly more hitpoints than the other classes. My rogue is level 45 and has 2788 hitpoints and could probably get over 3000 at level 45 if my rogue went all stamina gear.

 

[MrBond]

Warriors only have slightly more hitpoints than the other classes. My rogue is level 45 and has 2788 hitpoints and could probably get over 3000 at level 45 if my rogue went all stamina gear.

This *may* be a bug. It seems like I read somewhere that warriors weren't getting the proper increases with each stat increase as they level up. Someone said they had two level 10 characters, a warlock and a warrior, they stripped them down of all gear and the Warlock had equal hit points as the warrior. I don't remember where I read that however.

Warriors are said to have a bug at higher levels as well, where they miss WAY more than they should.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
Advice: Don't be a warrior!

Be a priest, mage, or paladin for the easiest time getting groups.

I agree. I don't have as much fun playing a warrior, the other classes have more interesting abilities.

and warrior is not as simple as you think. if you want simple, play a pally, i have a lvl 40. all you do is attack, seal of crusader, heal yourself, repeat

To be honest, I think Paladins get a bit more complicated than that, perhaps at a bit higher level than 40.

It's been more complicated than that for me since level 15 or so. Maybe earlier. Maybe he never learned judgement or blessings at the trainer. Or other seals, for that matter.

Alright, here is what i do.


Every five minutes: Blessing of might
Every 30 secs: Seal of Crusader
Constant: Devotion Aura
Attack
Health runs low: heal
health runs low and mana is low: Throw up devine protection, chug mana potions, heal to full health
attack
Health runs low again: Blessing of protection
Heal to full health or apply bandages
Attack
if about to die and out of mana, hit the "I Win" macro i wrote (Auto targets self and applies Lay on Hands)
attack
About to die: Chug health potion
Repeat

if they are able to kill me, they deserve to be able to kill me

No judgements? Shame on you. My tactics are nothing like yours even with judgements. And in groups they change yet again.

In a group, i do blessing of wisdom on the casters, blessing of might on the melee people. Priest thinks he is a mage and starts spamming magic attacks instead of healing, draws huge amounts of aggro. i become primary healer for the group, priests dies because he drew so much hate from spamming his ranged attacks, i rez priest. repeat.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CVSiN
peoples are confused.. they think it should be like EQ warriors that were damage machines....

Warriors were damage machines in EQ? And for how long exactly did you play EQ?

from release to POP release...

never seen a Warrior with 2 primals?
can outdamage a ranger hands down...
crits were insane in EQ for warriors and DW was a viable spec.. where in WoW 2 hand and DW is worthless for a warrior..

Although this is pretty offtopic, I am just forced to point out that all of the above statements are outrageous falsehoods, whether referring to EQ or WoW.

If you get an invite to group or raid as a warrior - they want you to tank, they could not care less about your dps.

Yes i know they were a tank but they were a tank that did really decent damage.. in WoW the warrior is about nothiong but sheer HP/AC and staying power with VERY little damage and this is what alot of people arnt liking...

I was mearly pointing out that alot of these peeps came from EQ and the warriors were very different in design...

even with the best gear our L60 warriors are not putting out crap for damage.... literally less than 100dps
where in EQ they "could" do a crapload of damage specially in duels and BoTB fights in the arena

that is all I was trying to say above...

As for Deathstriker.. it is 3 secs.. but is way way more than a 2% chance to proc... we can see the effect grafics procing on him its going off more than my Phantom Blade or Thrash Blade Or Satyrs Lash are procing.... and they proc a crapload too.... i always get at least 1 proc per fight.. hes getting alot of the time 2...

I see 1 or 2 other posts like mine that have experieced what I mean when I say how valueable warriors are in end game PVE... they are invaluable in BRS and BRD and every other L60 instance..

yes I agree for PVP and general fun to play they need some work.. but they do function as they should in instances...

 

[bcterps]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: benchiu
Oh, and if you think pally's can tank as well as warriors, you are sadly mistaken. Warriors are incredibly effective if you know how to use them properly. Well balanced groups are incredibly important once you hit the high lvl instances (BRD and up). A warrior/priest combo is way more effective than pally/pally or pally/priest combo.

High lvl warriors claim that the pally's agro generation seal works as well, if not better, than warriors' agro generation abilities. I don't know if it's totally true, but it was enough to make a friend of mine stop playing his warrior until the issue is addressed.

If the servers weren't so overpopulated with pallies, I would see very little reason to play a warrior.

I think that's referring to Seal of Fury? Which works, but you only can use it once every 30 secs I think. I've grouped with many pallys, my good friend is one and we've been grouping together since the beginning so I know how pallys work with aggro management, and I know from experience that warriors will hold aggro way better. It probably doesnt make a difference for the first 55 lvls or so, but in the end game instances, it's huge.