News on the Hybrid front

[imported_Shivetya]

First the bad, The Accord Hybrid is going bye-bye, mainly it was too pricey for the market

GM has commissioned to battery makers to provide battery packs for Volt style cars

Toyota has 80% of the Hybrid market to itself! With sales of 24,009 vehicles ? more than all other hybrids combined ? the Prius was the ninth top-selling U.S. model in the industry for May, outselling mass-market names such as the Nissan Altima, Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Cobalt. The only car model from a Detroit automaker that outsold the Prius last month was the Chevrolet Impala.


I have seen articles about the Ford Edge having a hybrid model in 2010 but I am more interested in models from GM using the Volt technology - a series hybrid.

The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I have a funny feeling that this part of the article is rather telling:

Brian Chee, an analyst with the vehicle research firm Autobytel.com, said the Accord's relatively low fuel economy and high price tag compared with other hybrids made it a tough sell.

So, the vehicle has relatively low fuel economy...which defeats the entire purpose of designing and marketing or purchasing a hybrid vehicle to begin with.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
I have a funny feeling that this part of the article is rather telling:

Brian Chee, an analyst with the vehicle research firm Autobytel.com, said the Accord's relatively low fuel economy and high price tag compared with other hybrids made it a tough sell.

So, the vehicle has relatively low fuel economy...which defeats the entire purpose of designing and marketing or purchasing a hybrid vehicle to begin with.

Don't confuse the oil baron supporter OP with facts.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
I have a funny feeling that this part of the article is rather telling:

Brian Chee, an analyst with the vehicle research firm Autobytel.com, said the Accord's relatively low fuel economy and high price tag compared with other hybrids made it a tough sell.

So, the vehicle has relatively low fuel economy...which defeats the entire purpose of designing and marketing or purchasing a hybrid vehicle to begin with.

Don't confuse the oil baron supporter OP with facts.

Do you even know what you are saying anymore?

 

[TheSlamma]

Did they mention how bad for the environment the creation of those batteries was?

 

[Uhtrinity]

I was on the fence for quite a while as I had a car that would get 36 mpg on the highway. Why spend the extra $5,000 or more to get a car that would only get 10 - 15 mpg more than what I was driving, then I found an used Honda Insight for roughly half the price of any other used Hybrid in the area. For the record a 2006 Prius only get s about 46 mpg combined.

My point is, if a hybrid doesn't get extremely good mileage compared to a normal car car people won't buy it and that is what happened with the Accord. Looking at fueleconomy.gov the 2006 Hybrid Accord only gets 22mpg in the city, and 31 mpg on the highway. I don't know about anyone else, but I find that kind of mileage appalling for a gas engine vehicle let alone a hybrid. I can safely say that I won't touch a hybrid vehicle unless it gets higher than about 50 mpg average, of course higher is better as with the Insight (60 city / 70 Highway with driving methods for getting 80 and even 90 mpg).

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

 

[DougK62]

These hybrid cars are just band-aids on the problem. We won't see true inovation until we're FORCED to make more fuel efficient cars - either by the government or by oil running out. Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: DougK62
These hybrid cars are just band-aids on the problem. We won't see true inovation until we're FORCED to make more fuel efficient cars - either by the government or by oil running out. Necessity is the mother of invention.

That won't happen until big oil loses influence in both the auto industry and government.

As far as the bandaid statement, if that bandaid allows me to double the mileage of my Saturn or quadruple the mileage of my Explorer (with I only drive about 1k miles a year), so be it.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
I have a funny feeling that this part of the article is rather telling:

Brian Chee, an analyst with the vehicle research firm Autobytel.com, said the Accord's relatively low fuel economy and high price tag compared with other hybrids made it a tough sell.

So, the vehicle has relatively low fuel economy...which defeats the entire purpose of designing and marketing or purchasing a hybrid vehicle to begin with.

Don't confuse the oil baron supporter OP with facts.

it did get relatively poor mileage. i think it barely got better mileage in actual use than a regular V6 accord.

however, the point of the accord hybrid was not all-out gas savings. the point of the accord hybrid was big engine performance (see: everyone else's 3.5L V6s) with I4 accord mileage. it also came with every option on the accord's option list, iirc. so it wasn't a stripped down car with a crappy interior like, say, a prius.

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

That won't happen until big oil loses influence in both the auto industry and government.

'big oil' doesn't have that much influence in the auto industry. the oil industry doesn't contribute a cent to the bottom line at ford or gm. the oil industry and the car industry are constantly at odds (oil wants to sell the crappiest gas it can because it can make more money that way, auto wants oil to sell high quality gas so as not to gum up the engines and make for expensive warranty repairs, this tension has gone on for a long long time)

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

That's like saying guns pose a danger around people. C'mon this argument is so flawed and weak. It's the driver, not the vehicle that is a danger. And, as a family man, I choose heavy, large vehicles because A) I need the space and b) I want the additional safety.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: DougK62
These hybrid cars are just band-aids on the problem. We won't see true inovation until we're FORCED to make more fuel efficient cars - either by the government or by oil running out. Necessity is the mother of invention.

That won't happen until big oil loses influence in both the auto industry and government.

As far as the bandaid statement, if that bandaid allows me to double the mileage of my Saturn or quadruple the mileage of my Explorer (with I only drive about 1k miles a year), so be it.

How would big oil loses support the auto industry to make more fuel efficient cars?

It's funny, you could probably pull up many, many threads from 4 or 5 years ago that had posters complaining that the oil industry and auto industry were in cahoots. The auto industry kept mileage efficiency low so the oil industry would benefit. Now, oil/gasoline prices are high and efficiency isn't much better and the domestic auto industry is cratering from low sales and taking a pounding regarding said efficiency. What happened? Why would the auto industry do this to themselves? I thought the two industries were conspiring against the public. I guess after all is said and done the suspicion back then was just plain nonsense.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

The Accord Hybrid was one of the WORST things HoMoCo has ever done. I'm not sure they've ever had such a failure. You have to realize Honda is fundamentally an engineering company particularly when it comes to every engine/drivetrain design conceivable. But somehow this great company produced a car that didn't really function much better (compared to EX V6) but cost A LOT more to produce and likely will have longevity issues.

IMA and other Honda hybrid technologies just aren't ready for applications beyond compact, sub-compact, and micro. Granted, I'm not sure Toyota's technology is ready either.

Honda doesn't have Toyota's resources so I think they will narrow their focus to small car hybrids and apply clean diesel tech to mid-size cars and the SUV/light-truck. It's none too soon either . . . the next Prius looks like a stud!


I really hope Ford learns enough from the Escape to produce a line of crossovers and SUVs with both hybrid and cylinder deactivation technology. It would be great for the company's future and our society.

 

[Uhtrinity]

[/quote]
How would big oil loses support the auto industry to make more fuel efficient cars?

It's funny, you could probably pull up many, many threads from 4 or 5 years ago that had posters complaining that the oil industry and auto industry were in cahoots. The auto industry kept mileage efficiency low so the oil industry would benefit. Now, oil/gasoline prices are high and efficiency isn't much better and the domestic auto industry is cratering from low sales and taking a pounding regarding said efficiency. What happened? Why would the auto industry do this to themselves? I thought the two industries were conspiring against the public. I guess after all is said and done the suspicion back then was just plain nonsense.[/quote]

/tinfoil on

It's just my opinion, but it seems that big oil has too much at stake when it comes to efficiency. If we the consumer all lower our consumption by a third or by half big oil loses that money directly. By influence I am referring to lobbyists both to the government and the auto makers. I don't believe for a minute that big oil doesn't give the manufactures incentive to resist change and maintain the status quo. It sure looks suspicious when you have a company like GM only offer an all electric car like the EV1's on lease, then after the lease period is over they destroy all the cars even though a lot of the drivers wanted to outright buy them.

I believe as long as there is oil to sell for profit the oil companies and auto manufactures will resist any change in the market even though a lot of people are demanding better efficiency.

/tinfoil off

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

ummm there's these little things called kids...
Have 2 or 3 and then get back to me on whether you want a SUV to carry all their crap around in.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

ummm there's these little things called kids...
Have 2 or 3 and then get back to me on whether you want a SUV to carry all their crap around in.

There is also a thing called a mini van that gets better mpg and usually has more seating than most suvs. Most people who have suv's don't even even use them for their primary purpose, it's all about appearance. Now, I do have an suv, but like I stated earlier I drive it about 1k miles a year, and that is only if I have to pull a trailer, or for camping and fishing where I can't use a passenger car.

 

[Exodor]

Originally posted by: CPA
That's like saying guns pose a danger around people. C'mon this argument is so flawed and weak. It's the driver, not the vehicle that is a danger. And, as a family man, I choose heavy, large vehicles because A) I need the space and b) I want the additional safety.

You do realize that you're less safe driving an SUV due to the increased risk of rollover accidents, right?

And that your land-barge is far more likely to kill any pedestrian it strikes as well as increasing the danger for any other drive unfortnate enough to be hit by it.

The "SUV=Safety" myth is one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on the American consumer.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

ummm there's these little things called kids...
Have 2 or 3 and then get back to me on whether you want a SUV to carry all their crap around in.

There is also a thing called a mini van that gets better mpg and usually has more seating than most suvs. Most people who have suv's don't even even use them for their primary purpose, it's all about appearance. Now, I do have an suv, but like I stated earlier I drive it about 1k miles a year, and that is only if I have to pull a trailer, or for camping and fishing where I can't use a passenger car.

Most mini-vans get the same mileage as the SUVs around them.

If you go look at the charts you will find many of todays sedans getting worse mileage than some SUVs.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Exodor

Originally posted by: CPA
That's like saying guns pose a danger around people. C'mon this argument is so flawed and weak. It's the driver, not the vehicle that is a danger. And, as a family man, I choose heavy, large vehicles because A) I need the space and b) I want the additional safety.

You do realize that you're less safe driving an SUV due to the increased risk of rollover accidents, right?

And that your land-barge is far more likely to kill any pedestrian it strikes as well as increasing the danger for any other drive unfortnate enough to be hit by it.

The "SUV=Safety" myth is one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on the American consumer.

stereotypes for the win. Some small cars are more prone to roll over than any SUV.

tiny wheels and tall cabs don't make for great anti-roll

the small car being less prone to roll-over one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on the American consumer

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

That's like saying guns pose a danger around people. C'mon this argument is so flawed and weak. It's the driver, not the vehicle that is a danger. And, as a family man, I choose heavy, large vehicles because A) I need the space and b) I want the additional safety.

[/quote]

That argument isn't flawed and weak at all. What kind of car you drive has no effect on how good a driver you are and little impact on how likely you are to get in an accident but it does change how deadly the accidents you happen to get into will be. The heavier your car, the more likely someone you hit will be hurt or killed, so it very much does create additional danger for those around you.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Most mini-vans get the same mileage as the SUVs around them.

If you go look at the charts you will find many of todays sedans getting worse mileage than some SUVs.

Oh come on, your talking out of your a$$ again.

Even a mini-van with an 8 cylinder engine which most mini's are 6 cyl are half the weight of SUV's.

Give me a break.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Most mini-vans get the same mileage as the SUVs around them.

If you go look at the charts you will find many of todays sedans getting worse mileage than some SUVs.

Oh come on, your talking out of your a$$ again.

Even a mini-van with an 8 cylinder engine which most mini's are 6 cyl are half the weight of SUV's.

Give me a break.

I gave you enough of a break for your rampant stupidity and thread crapping. I understand its beyond your feeble abilities to look stuff up, instead your stuck in your infantile world of playground insults.

Should you actually care for facts, please feel free to read the numbers yourself.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2007.pdf


you will see that my statement is correct. There are many SUVs that get better mileage than minivans. Minivans are horribly inefficient in many areas , paticularly mileage.

 

[BoberFett]

The idea that the oil companies pay the auto industry to produce low mileage cars is so ridiculous, even the tinfoil hatters should laugh at it. Just use some common sense. Look at the old 100 mpg carb myth. Any auto company which could design an engine that got that kind of mileage would patent it, and own the auto industry for the following two decades. How much would that be worth to an auto manufacturer, being the only company to sell a 100 mpg car? Hundreds of billions of dollars? Do the fruit loops who believe these conspiracy theories really believe that an auto company would hide that technology in exchange for a pittance from the oil companies? Get real.

As to the topic at hand, I'm anxiously awaiting the Chevy Volt and desperately want them to follow through on the car. I love the concept, and would be among the first in line to buy one.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The funny thing about hybrids is, with electric motors and such, we may end up with cars even more powerful than the best gasoline cars of today. Who will get upset at a neighbors hummer in 2015 when it gets 40+ mpg?
(not saying the automakers will actually do it, but if they did would the ignorant anti-suv crowd this be as rampant?)

I'm not anti-SUV, but I have to question the decision-making process of a person that chooses a vehicle that creates additional danger to everyone around them on the roads.

Sorry but I've just finished Iacocca's new book so I'll give you his take. He pretty much said that we really need to get over the idea the heavier is safer. Design is what really puts safety into an automobile which I would agree with. He also admitted that the whole SUV explosion was pretty much his fault when he bought Jeep. He only thought there would be a niche market for it and then all of a sudden everyone wanted one after the Cherokee came out. And now every single brand has it's own version.

"It's about time we stopped promoting the fiction that bigger, heavier vehicles deliver more safety on the road. America went crazy over the SUV because people believed all that iron protected them. Here's the truth: You don't make cars safer by just adding weight. Study after study has shown that weight alone doesn't protect drivers." p176

I loved this part:

"What the hell is a crossover vehicle? It's and SUV on a car chassis that will probably never go off-road. It's smaller than a minivan. Well let me see...that would be a...CAR! Stop building models that people don?t' need and concentrate on lean, strong product program."

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Most mini-vans get the same mileage as the SUVs around them.

If you go look at the charts you will find many of todays sedans getting worse mileage than some SUVs.

Oh come on, your talking out of your a$$ again.

Even a mini-van with an 8 cylinder engine which most mini's are 6 cyl are half the weight of SUV's.

Give me a break.

I gave you enough of a break for your rampant stupidity and thread crapping. I understand its beyond your feeble abilities to look stuff up, instead your stuck in your infantile world of playground insults.

Should you actually care for facts, please feel free to read the numbers yourself.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2007.pdf

you will see that my statement is correct. There are many SUVs that get better mileage than minivans. Minivans are horribly inefficient in many areas , paticularly mileage.

Thanks for providing a link backing up your lies.

The Dodge Caravan is listed with the good fuel economy vehicles.

They listed two Jeep vehicles as SUV that should not have along with the Ford Escape Hybrid. What's with that?

Where is your "many SUVs that get better mileage than minivans"?

There is no SUV as we know it such as the Expeditions, Escalades, Suburban etc listed as a good fuel economy vehicle.

Your bold faced lies are getting very tiresome.