Nice commentary on Drug Legalization

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Black markets could undercut the price. Never heard of moonshine? And i know a lot of people who buy their cigarettes online from the Indian reservations because it's cheaper.

It seems perhaps you are the one who needs to put more thought into their posts?

Every single person I know either drinks or smokes (and most do both), and not a single one of them has ever bought moonshine or reservation cigarettes. I mean, really, that's your argument? Really?

Also, you need to consider quality. Right now, pot is pretty hit or miss. You might get some primo shit, you might get schwag; it's a toss-up. When you go buy a pack of Camels or a bottle of Pabst, you know exactly what you're getting. You've never, in your life, heard anyone say, "damn, this pack of Marlboros is shit compared to the pack I had last week." When operations are done on a large scale, as they are in a legal commercial business, quality control is a central component. People aren't out buying moonshine in droves because bathtub gin, by and large, tastes like complete shit. Why would I drive miles and miles for an inferior product?

If pot were legalized, you can bet that the large marijuana corporations would have vast standardized growing operations that could guarantee consistency of quality better than Uncle Joe who grows the shit in his closet. That's a huge factor in people's choice of product and it's a huge reason that moonshine is not a competitor for large alcohol companies (despite your imbecilic claim that it is).

Why should I bother responding to your insults? Go fuck yourself for all I care.

If you think that post was an insult you need a thicker skin.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I make wine. Chokecherry, grape, and plum. Only for my own consumption and on good years I might give some out as gifts. I thought about growing tobacco but we really don't have the climate for it. I was going to do a little research this year and see if they are any varieties suitable for a northern climate and if there is maybe I would experiment with some. I'd be willing to bet I could grow some pretty good sensimellia if I so desired.

Sounds like a lot of work. Research, experiment. You think you could grow good stuff if you wanted.

Most people in this forum build their own computers, but somehow Dell is still in business. Most people don't want to put the time and effort into something. The people you are referring to are hobbyists. These hobbyists who would grow drugs for themselves are a tiny minority, just as are the people who build their own PCs.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Maybe I'll quit growing my own vegetables and concentrate on a "cash crop"? I'm sure many people would do it if pot was legal. I guess it would depend on what they could sell it for, but with cigs at $6/pack?

Excessive taxation is similar to a ban and can drive the same behavior. As the cig tax increases, you will see more and more people turn to the gray market. An all out smoking ban would send it straight to black market.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I make wine. Chokecherry, grape, and plum. Only for my own consumption and on good years I might give some out as gifts. I thought about growing tobacco but we really don't have the climate for it. I was going to do a little research this year and see if they are any varieties suitable for a northern climate and if there is maybe I would experiment with some. I'd be willing to bet I could grow some pretty good sensimellia if I so desired.

Sounds like a lot of work. Research, experiment. You think you could grow good stuff if you wanted.

Most people in this forum build their own computers, but somehow Dell is still in business. Most people don't want to put the time and effort into something. The people you are referring to are hobbyists. These hobbyists who would grow drugs for themselves are a tiny minority, just as are the people who build their own PCs.

I realize this, but think of having a hobby that can be fun AND profitable!! Hell, I grew all of our potatoes, onions, carrots, corn, pumpkin, asparagus, zucchini, peppers, and beets. I also grew most of my watermelon, cantaloupe, apples, green beans, cucumbers, radishes, and broccoli.

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

Uhhhhhh.... How about, cocaine, meth, etc.. they are illegal and look how that is working out. Laughable at best, destructive and creates gangs and drug lords and murderers and huge crime waves at worst....

And yes of course lsd should be legal.

Do you think legalizing cocaine in the US is going to do anything to stop the drug lords in south america from fighting it out?

It wont, there is a limited supply of cocaine, controlled by a limited number of very powerful VIOLENT people.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I make wine. Chokecherry, grape, and plum. Only for my own consumption and on good years I might give some out as gifts. I thought about growing tobacco but we really don't have the climate for it. I was going to do a little research this year and see if they are any varieties suitable for a northern climate and if there is maybe I would experiment with some. I'd be willing to bet I could grow some pretty good sensimellia if I so desired.

Sounds like a lot of work. Research, experiment. You think you could grow good stuff if you wanted.

Most people in this forum build their own computers, but somehow Dell is still in business. Most people don't want to put the time and effort into something. The people you are referring to are hobbyists. These hobbyists who would grow drugs for themselves are a tiny minority, just as are the people who build their own PCs.

I realize this, but think of having a hobby that can be fun AND profitable!! Hell, I grew all of our potatoes, onions, carrots, corn, pumpkin, asparagus, zucchini, peppers, and beets. I also grew most of my watermelon, cantaloupe, apples, green beans, cucumbers, radishes, and broccoli.

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

The legalization bill california was entertaining had rules against growing your own and selling for profit. If you want to grow it and smoke it, ok, and you can only have 2-3 plants or something. Anymore, and you need a license.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: scott916
So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

Legalization, regulation, and taxation. Bring it off the black market. I acknowledge it is not a perfect solution. However the drug war costs us billions and kills thousands every year in the cross fire. At the same time huge cartels erect off the profits made via the balck market.

Mexico is in some serious shit because the cartels have become powerful enough to rival the damned govt.

How exactly do you bring it off of the black market, when the product is controled by the suppliers WHO ARE FUCKING CRIMINALS more powerful than the governments of the countries they reside in.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. Cartel violence isnt about pot, crack, its about COCAINE and cocaine trafficing routes. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

And that requires money. When you destroy their profit margins watch as they cant afford a private military or to bribe officials.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: scott916
So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

Legalization, regulation, and taxation. Bring it off the black market. I acknowledge it is not a perfect solution. However the drug war costs us billions and kills thousands every year in the cross fire. At the same time huge cartels erect off the profits made via the balck market.

Mexico is in some serious shit because the cartels have become powerful enough to rival the damned govt.

How exactly do you bring it off of the black market, when the product is controled by the suppliers WHO ARE FUCKING CRIMINALS more powerful than the governments of the countries they reside in.

At worst the cartels go legitmate and sell to distributors. At best the host countries follow our lead and dont crack down on production. Farmers plant lots of acres and the drug lords are simply priced out of the business.

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Do you think legalizing cocaine in the US is going to do anything to stop the drug lords in south america from fighting it out?

It wont, there is a limited supply of cocaine, controlled by a limited number of very powerful VIOLENT people.

There is only a limited supply because it is ILLEGAL TO GROW. If it became legal, you can expect grow operations to spring up virtually overnight here on US soil. Legitimate businesses would not be buying from criminal organizations.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

And that requires money. When you destroy their profit margins watch as they cant afford a private military or to bribe officials.

Uh, how exactly do you think it is going to take away from their profits?

The cartels supply 100% of the cocaine. They have the power to continue supplying 100% of the cocaine.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: crownjules

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Do you think legalizing cocaine in the US is going to do anything to stop the drug lords in south america from fighting it out?

It wont, there is a limited supply of cocaine, controlled by a limited number of very powerful VIOLENT people.

There is only a limited supply because it is ILLEGAL TO GROW. If it became legal, you can expect grow operations to spring up virtually overnight here on US soil. Legitimate businesses would not be buying from criminal organizations.

The coca plant isnt easily grown except in parts of north western SA. That is why it is controlled by the cartels.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

And that requires money. When you destroy their profit margins watch as they cant afford a private military or to bribe officials.

Uh, how exactly do you think it is going to take away from their profits?

The cartels supply 100% of the cocaine. They have the power to continue supplying 100% of the cocaine.

You think private enterprise wouldnt get involved? Especially in many other countries?
Walmart could find a way to grow this stuff at a cost that would make escobar roll in his grave. Like anything else it will works its way out.

Edit:btw a quick glance shows the coca leaf is used in many industrial and commercial products. I now highly doubt your claims the cartels control 100% of the production and cultivation of the plant.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

And that requires money. When you destroy their profit margins watch as they cant afford a private military or to bribe officials.

Uh, how exactly do you think it is going to take away from their profits?

The cartels supply 100% of the cocaine. They have the power to continue supplying 100% of the cocaine.

You think private enterprise wouldnt get involved? Especially in many other countries?
Walmart could find a way to grow this stuff at a cost that would make escobar roll in his grave. Like anything else it will works its way out.

You are stupid. You would FIRST have to break the cartels. You cannot just enter the market with the cartels in existence because they will easily KILL new enterants.

You obviously arent getting the point. The have such much POWER RIGHT NOW, they can use that power to destroy any new competitor. Which is what they are doing amongst themselves in this current cartel war. You think Wal-Mart will find it acceptable to have blood on its hands?

Private enterprise cannot stand up to ruther murders that have tens of thousands of highly trained killers. They have people comparable to US Special Forces. They have people trained in tactical military warfare, ubran and rural warfare. They have assasins and hitmen. There are several dozen assisination cases in Texas that stem from the cartel war. Do you think Wal-Mart will enter a market that assures multiple employees even in the US, would get gunned down and their murderers never captured.

You under estimate the power of the drug cartels.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

And that requires money. When you destroy their profit margins watch as they cant afford a private military or to bribe officials.

Uh, how exactly do you think it is going to take away from their profits?

The cartels supply 100% of the cocaine. They have the power to continue supplying 100% of the cocaine.

You think it can't be grown elsewhere if it suddenly becomes a viable, legal product in the US?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

You are stupid. You would FIRST have to break the cartels. You cannot just enter the market with the cartels in existence because they will easily KILL new enterants.

You obviously arent getting the point. The have such much POWER RIGHT NOW, they can use that power to destroy any new competitor. Which is what they are doing amongst themselves in this current cartel war. You think Wal-Mart will find it acceptable to have blood on its hands?

Yes lets resort to name calling. That always wins the debate :roll:
How do you explain Coca-Cola importing tons of the leaf legally? Are they buying direct from the cartels?

The cartels control a % of the supply. They will either go legit or die. I think they may go legit but their power will be dimished greatly.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

You are stupid. You would FIRST have to break the cartels. You cannot just enter the market with the cartels in existence because they will easily KILL new enterants.

You obviously arent getting the point. The have such much POWER RIGHT NOW, they can use that power to destroy any new competitor. Which is what they are doing amongst themselves in this current cartel war. You think Wal-Mart will find it acceptable to have blood on its hands?

Yes lets resort to name calling. That always wins the debate :roll:
How do you explain Coca-Cola importing tons of the leaf legally? Are they buying direct from the cartels?

The cartels control a % of the supply. They will either go legit or die. I think they may go legit but their power will be dimished greatly.

No they buy directly from Stephens Inc. Who buys directly from the governments. They buy from growers, who are either 1. routinely killed or 2. also on the payroll of the cartels.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

If pot were legal I'd be sorely tempted to grow a bunch of it and sell some if the price was good. Maybe there would be so much around that the price would suck? I don't know but it seems to me that it could be a good cash crop??

I'd guess the price will drop like a rock once Walmart gets into the game. Which is why the cartels die off because they cant make any profits on the black market. Without cartels a lot of the crime surrounding drugs goes away.

The cartels control drug NUMERO UNO. Cocaine. You think the violence is bad now, just try and take their source of money away from them. These cartels have their own private armies and tactical military units, they have governemnt officials, military officials, and police officials on their payrolls.

And that requires money. When you destroy their profit margins watch as they cant afford a private military or to bribe officials.

Uh, how exactly do you think it is going to take away from their profits?

The cartels supply 100% of the cocaine. They have the power to continue supplying 100% of the cocaine.

You think it can't be grown elsewhere if it suddenly becomes a viable, legal product in the US?

Naturally no it cannot. To supply the US with cocaine, it would take an immense amount of money and resources to grow outside of SA and parts of the caribean.

Seriously y'all are naive if you think the drug cartels will let their revenues go away.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

You are stupid. You would FIRST have to break the cartels. You cannot just enter the market with the cartels in existence because they will easily KILL new enterants.

You obviously arent getting the point. The have such much POWER RIGHT NOW, they can use that power to destroy any new competitor. Which is what they are doing amongst themselves in this current cartel war. You think Wal-Mart will find it acceptable to have blood on its hands?

Yes lets resort to name calling. That always wins the debate :roll:
How do you explain Coca-Cola importing tons of the leaf legally? Are they buying direct from the cartels?

The cartels control a % of the supply. They will either go legit or die. I think they may go legit but their power will be dimished greatly.

No they buy directly from Stephens Inc. Who buys directly from the governments. They buy from growers, who are either 1. routinely killed or 2. also on the payroll of the cartels.

But they are buying from legitimate suppliers. The cartels dont control 100% of the supply and if you cut them at the knee's their financial empires along with their ability to intimidate as well.

Like I said at worst they go legit. Either way they can only control the supply for so long until they run out of money from a reduced profit margin.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wreckem

You are stupid. You would FIRST have to break the cartels. You cannot just enter the market with the cartels in existence because they will easily KILL new enterants.

You obviously arent getting the point. The have such much POWER RIGHT NOW, they can use that power to destroy any new competitor. Which is what they are doing amongst themselves in this current cartel war. You think Wal-Mart will find it acceptable to have blood on its hands?

Yes lets resort to name calling. That always wins the debate :roll:
How do you explain Coca-Cola importing tons of the leaf legally? Are they buying direct from the cartels?

The cartels control a % of the supply. They will either go legit or die. I think they may go legit but their power will be dimished greatly.

No they buy directly from Stephens Inc. Who buys directly from the governments. They buy from growers, who are either 1. routinely killed or 2. also on the payroll of the cartels.

But they are buying from legitimate suppliers. The cartels dont control 100% of the supply and if you cut them at the knee's their financial empires along with their ability to intimidate as well.

Like I said at worst they go legit. Either way they can only control the supply for so long until they run out of money from a reduced profit margin.

Again you dont get it.

They HAVE THE POWER to prevent it from happening. You'd have to bust up the cartels first. Or they will use the POWER THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW, to stop any legal activitity.

Not only that most SA governments arent exactly friends with the US. They arent likely to risk their own lives on behalf of the US.

The only way legalizing cocaine will stop cartel violence is if, the US could produce enough cocaine within side the US to satisfy the demand. That is probably not possible.

 

[Ns1]

let's start with marijuana and go from there.

cartel argument = moot.

 

[BoberFett]

WreckEm

Are all alcohol producers mob owned?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Again you dont get it.

They HAVE THE POWER to prevent it from happening. You'd have to bust up the cartels first. Or they will use the POWER THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW, to stop any legal activitity.

Not only that most SA governments arent exactly friends with the US. They arent likely to risk their own lives on behalf of the US.

The only way legalizing cocaine will stop cartel violence is if, the US could produce enough cocaine within side the US to satisfy the demand. That is probably not possible.

How did we ever get to the point of the mob not controlling alcohol supplies and distribution?

Also it is apparent there is enough coca leaf production to satisfy not only the demand for cocaine in the United States and industrial and commerical products.

As well if the worlds govts cant stop and control the plant I dont think Cartels can either. They may control their part of the world for awhile until the other producers produce enough to drive the costs down in a legal market and force them into it as well.

On a side note it would also benefit production if the worlds govts didnt try to eradicate the plant at every chance. That would artificially limit supply.