Nissan Z: 400hp, $40k, manual

[Muadib]

I don't like wind in my hair. Nor do I like sun shining down on my eyes ignoring my sunglasses.

Ok then, not for you.

 

[rstrohkirch]

I wouldn't be taking the Z to the track, so I don't want it too stiff. I believe I read it will have 350 lb-ft of torque. I can't help but compare the Z to the Supra, and the 400hp gives the Z the edge. As for what I want to do with it, I'd like to drive it with the wind in my hair. Sadly it looks like I'm in for a bit of a wait.

You can't use published numbers to compare cars. Car manufacturers use anything from max possible BHP to WHP. A company like Dodge generally uses the biggest possible BHP number they can get. Where as BMW generally will use something in the middle all the way down to WHP. The B58 engine that's in the Supra and current 40i BMW models is rated at WHP. If BMW were Dodge it would be rated at 440hp. You need to get them on a dyno to see what they actually produce. Another good example of this is the new Golf R. The previous model was rated very close to BHP while the new model is rated much closer to WHP.

With that said, the engine in the new Z isn't a particularly high performance twin turbo 6. But, it's power output from a tuning point of view is right around the same as the engine in the Supra.

 

[Commodus]

Z is "supposed" to be sports car.
Nissan is also in a bit of a pickle when it comes to $$$
For a Z to make sense, it can't just be another 2+ ton electric car. Then it no longer fits into the Z's category or price point.
It also means that the existing FM platform won't be suitable and they would need to come up with a completely new platform, and then have other model share the sane platform for cost saving.
If they go light on the battery then it has no range.
If they want to call it a sports car, then it should be able to handle track work, meaning multiple sessions and not just a you tube video of 2 laps on you tube.
Tough with the lighter smaller battery pack used for weight savings and toss in cooling and other crap....
I don't see Nissan having the resources for an electric Z when they have no other suitable platform.
They have the Leaf...which is a short distance communter special that has a gimped battery and they have the Ariya SUV coming soon.

It makes more sense to do a mild design refresh on the FM platform while there is still money to be made on gas engines and they get their footing with a better EV platform

True, this may be more a matter of the tech not quite being there to deliver what Nissan wants. I'm just looking forward to the day when an electric Z arrives.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I don't like wind in my hair. Nor do I like sun shining down on my eyes ignoring my sunglasses.

The nice thing about a convertible, is that it's convertible. You aren't forced to keep the top open in conditions you don't like.

Summer evenings are my favorite top down time. Or enjoying the wooshing in the trees as I drive down rural tree lined roads.

It's an expansive feel being out in nature, as opposed to cocooned in an isolating cage.

But 100 degree days at high noon, in traffic, put the top up and turn on the AC. You still have that option.

 

[sdifox]

Yeah no. Windows are good enough for me.

 

[Muadib]

You can't use published numbers to compare cars. Car manufacturers use anything from max possible BHP to WHP. A company like Dodge generally uses the biggest possible BHP number they can get. Where as BMW generally will use something in the middle all the way down to WHP. The B58 engine that's in the Supra and current 40i BMW models is rated at WHP. If BMW were Dodge it would be rated at 440hp. You need to get them on a dyno to see what they actually produce. Another good example of this is the new Golf R. The previous model was rated very close to BHP while the new model is rated much closer to WHP.

With that said, the engine in the new Z isn't a particularly high performance twin turbo 6. But, it's power output from a tuning point of view is right around the same as the engine in the Supra.

You are lucky I can spell dyno.

 

[Muadib]

You can't use published numbers to compare cars. Car manufacturers use anything from max possible BHP to WHP. A company like Dodge generally uses the biggest possible BHP number they can get. Where as BMW generally will use something in the middle all the way down to WHP. The B58 engine that's in the Supra and current 40i BMW models is rated at WHP. If BMW were Dodge it would be rated at 440hp. You need to get them on a dyno to see what they actually produce. Another good example of this is the new Golf R. The previous model was rated very close to BHP while the new model is rated much closer to WHP.

With that said, the engine in the new Z isn't a particularly high performance twin turbo 6. But, it's power output from a tuning point of view is right around the same as the engine in the Supra.

The Supra is quite a ways away from 400hp, and that's from their website.

 

[rstrohkirch]

The Supra is quite a ways away from 400hp, and that's from their website.

Are you looking at a 2020 or a 2021? The 2021+ models make their rated HP to the wheels, which is about 380-385hp. Most car companies would rate this car at 425-440hp.

 

[Kaido]

The nice thing about a convertible, is that it's convertible. You aren't forced to keep the top open in conditions you don't like.

Summer evenings are my favorite top down time. Or enjoying the wooshing in the trees as I drive down rural tree lined roads.

It's an expansive feel being out in nature, as opposed to cocooned in an isolating cage.

But 100 degree days at high noon, in traffic, put the top up and turn on the AC. You still have that option.

So, I like weird cars. The new Bronco is a bit of an ugly box, but after test-driving it with the ENTIRE ROOF DOWN (soft-top), I'm SOLD on the idea! SO NICE to throw the whole family or friends in it & go cruising around with the top down! Too bad they're out of stock until 2023 & they're pushing $50k+ for a basic box lol.

 

[rstrohkirch]

You must live some place warm.

 

[Muadib]

Are you looking at a 2020 or a 2021? The 2021+ models make their rated HP to the wheels, which is about 380-385hp. Most car companies would rate this car at 425-440hp.

I was on the Toyota website, so I’m guessing 2021.

 

[Vic]

Lol, you need to take one for a spin.

I recently scored a low mileage 1 owner E88 135i 6MT. Freakin glorious. Some people just don't understand.

 

[Muadib]

I recently scored a low mileage 1 owner E88 135i 6MT. Freakin glorious. Some people just don't understand.

YES!!! That’s quite a score, good luck with it.

 

[pauldun170]

True, this may be more a matter of the tech not quite being there to deliver what Nissan wants. I'm just looking forward to the day when an electric Z arrives.

Here is an example of what Mazda went through with electrifying an existing platform

 

[FelixDeCat]

I have owned:

1976 280z 4 spd (bought it real cheap, had too many problems, sold it)

1978 280z 5 spd (from the original owner frame started to rust, sold for more than I paid for it)

1986 300zx 5 spd w/digital dash and computer voice (totaled)

1987 300zx auto w/od (transmission died and sold it to buy a 1984 Porsche 944)

All these cars were fun.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'd be all over this car if:

-No ABS
-No TPMS (or allow it to be turned off, or removed)
-No power windows
-No power door locks
-No cruise control
-No infotainment/entertainment system or computer/driver interface
-No Power seat controls
-No Sunroof
-No remote start or security alarm system
-MUST have limited slip
-Must have coilovers
-MUST have available "track/off-road only" computer (or tune) as a purchase option for race days.

I don't feel confident that they would have a model like this....but I can dream......

Basically, I'd like a simple, well-sorted sports car. There really aren't any affordable ones other than the Mazda MX5, and that's 38000 if you pick the go-fast parts and ignore "style" parts, or the Toyota 86 GT at 32000. Neither is going to be very fast at the track compared to the Nissan Z.

It looks like Nissan is trying hard to not go against the Toyota Supra, and if they can do that, they have a unique niche going on.

The closest you could get to that list is a used Lotus Elise.

 

[rstrohkirch]

No one builds cars like that because that's a gutted track car at best. If you want what you listed then go buy a cheap ass track Miata that's already had everything gutted and is setup correctly. You can get one for 1/4 of the price of the Z. That's like 20% of the population of the track days I go to.

 

[rstrohkirch]

edited

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I'm about 80% sold on a Performance model, however I refuse to buy first model year of any car, and given the current materials shortages and likelihood MSRP will not be respected, I'm really interested to see how the launch, performance, and reliability go over the next year.

 

[rstrohkirch]

It should go fine overall. It's a reskin with some improvements and the engine has been around for 6 years now. You already know what the tuning options will get you for power on that engine. If you order one you won't have any issues getting it for MSRP. If you buy one off the lot then that could change things. If you wait a year, which would mean later 2023 then you could easily get one under MSRP. Pre-covid shortages, you could get 8-10% off a 57k Supra.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

It should go fine overall. It's a reskin with some improvements and the engine has been around for 6 years now. You already know what the tuning options will get you for power on that engine. If you order one you won't have any issues getting it for MSRP. If you buy one off the lot then that could change things. If you wait a year, which would mean later 2023 then you could easily get one under MSRP. Pre-covid shortages, you could get 8-10% off a 57k Supra.

You underestimate how many things they can get wrong on a new generation of car, even on systems that are tried and true. I'm looking at you, honda, for the A/C's failing left and right on 10th gen civics.

Even if the basic engine design is the same, the intercoolers will be routed differently, the cooling system will be routed differently, it's mated to a transmission it never has been before, the ECU will have new programming, the infotainment will be new programming and hardware, and it'll all have been built during pandemic labor and supply shortages.

I'd be extremely surprised if there isn't at least one major screwup on the new Z for the first model year.

 

[maluckey1]

You underestimate how many things they can get wrong on a new generation of car, even on systems that are tried and true. I'm looking at you, honda, for the A/C's failing left and right on 10th gen civics.

Even if the basic engine design is the same, the intercoolers will be routed differently, the cooling system will be routed differently, it's mated to a transmission it never has been before, the ECU will have new programming, the infotainment will be new programming and hardware, and it'll all have been built during pandemic labor and supply shortages.

I'd be extremely surprised if there isn't at least one major screwup on the new Z for the first model year.

The very reason that I've only owned ONE new car. The used cars I buy are the ones that have the least amount of "baked" on goods and options. I've never had a bad experience or buyers remorse from any of the cars that I've owned. I bought my first car in the early 1980s. I wait a couple of years to see what is wrong with any vehicle before I decide on buying one. Problem avoided, and someone else does the work for me.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Here is an example of what Mazda went through with electrifying an existing platform

I feel like Mazda intentionally set out to make a mediocre if not outright bad electric car just so they could justify not embracing electric.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I feel like Mazda intentionally set out to make a mediocre if not outright bad electric car just so they could justify not embracing electric.

A small company didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars developing a bad car on purpose.

Whether they embrace it or not, EV mandates coming. Right now they are making a compliance car. Nearly every legacy car company converts an existing platform before building a true EV platform.

Their true EV platform is supposed to come in 2025.

 

[darkswordsman17]

A small company didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars developing a bad car on purpose.

Whether they embrace it or not, EV mandates coming. Right now they are making a compliance car. Nearly every legacy car company converts an existing platform before building a true EV platform.

Their true EV platform is supposed to come in 2025.

I hope you realize you just explained exactly how they went about doing what I said.

If they only wanted a compliance car, why would they spend hundreds of millions developing an uglier worse version of their current stuff, that isn't just one of their current cars with an electric motor and battery? It defies basic sense. If they didn't intentionally set out to achieve what they did, then they're so incompetent that its nearly unfathomable. I'm not sure which is worse, frankly.

They should have saved their money. I can't imagine putting electric drive in one of their SUVs would've cost any more, while offering a better vehicle, and getting economies of scale in other areas.

Yeah, well their first go hasn't given me much to look forward to. But on the flip side, probably couldn't be as much of a failure, so.