NORTHWOOD benchmarks!

[Grendel99]

LOL that is a good one icecool83! I like the one in Duvie's sig as well.

P4 is great, it's fast, but cost WAY too much. XP is just as good, cost a helluva lot less. You decide.

 

[Pabster]

Disappointing. Very disappointing.

Even taking account these benchies were ran on i845D, let's add a few percentage points for RDRAM/SiS 645. Even looking at it that way, the 2.2GHz Northwood is a disappointment. It is about what I expected -- 10% faster than Willamette at the same clock, on average. That's because it is nothing more than a die shrink and additional L2 cache.

Let's just await the arrival of the XP 2000+. While the 1900+ comes within in a hairs' ass (and in many cases still outperforms the 2.2GHz Northwood), the 2000+ ought to place them neck-and-neck. I'd also like to see some more performance numbers -- more intensive tasks besides the usual Q3A benchies. WTF cares if it can render 270fps @ 640x480? No one plays at that resolution. How about some numbers from distributed computing tasks? Or other games besides Q3A?

It all comes down to price when the performance is equal. So with the 2000+ XP scheduled to debut in the 320-350 price range, and the 2.2GHz Northwood nearing or surpassing $700, I think the choice is clear.

Overclocking? What good is it. You've got to push the Northwood to 3GHz just to keep pace in most areas with a Palomino clocked as much as 500MHz slower. While that's an improvement from the 600MHz+ between XPs and Willamettes, it isn't good enough.

 

[Degenerate]

Oc'ed tp 3Ghz to keep in pace? It the fastest CPu out there already. And plu I would personally overclock it cus it is easy and the gain is loads. Dunno about you.

 

[Syborg1211]

<< Promise is a V6, give us a kicking V6 then subcontract the transmission to a company that doesn't really care. End result, you got a kicking engine with a transmission that breaks down every 100 miles and drivers that wish their car would be as reliable as the V6 with 2 spark plugs missing. >>



Would you be talking about an American car by any chance? haha jk, I dont want any import/domestic wars, but that's what I thought of first(Mustang)


Anyways, WHY are you all getting mad at each other for wanting to spend their money? So what if they are spending a LOT of money, it's their money and deep down inside you wish you had that cpu as well... why? Because it's faster!


If I weren't a 17 year old with a minimum wage job, I just might be saving up my money for that Northwood, but I am not so I spend my money on AMD for now. And what happens?

My processor(1.4ghz tbird) burns, along with my motherboard(Epox 8k7a+).... then I save my money again and my memory burns(256mb ddr), along with my motherboard(MSI K7t266)... Why? I've already established I'm a dumbass, but let's see where AMD could have protected from my stupidity? If the motherboard had detected my heatsink(Alpha PEP66 with Intel feet still on) was faulty, it could have automatically shut down the computer like an Intel motherboard would do, but nope! So maybe that's another thing people buy Intel expecting. They buy what works and has very few problems working.

 

[NFS4]

<< Oh come on NFS4. How much money are you not paying for those PDA's and all that other odd hardware stuff? >>


I didn't pay much for ANYTHING in my computer. I got everything either through Hot Deals or a friend. I only paid $300 for my iPAQ back in October '00 when everyone else put out $500 b/c I sold my old Compaq Aero 2110 PDA for $200 and made a profit.


<< Anyways, WHY are you all getting mad at each other for wanting to spend their money? So what if they are spending a LOT of money, it's their money and deep down inside you wish you had that cpu as well... why? Because it's faster! >>


Excuse me? If it were a car...maybe. But this is a piece of silicon that will be outdated in a few months and won't be worth nearly $700 in the end.

 

[apoppin]

<< I think the only Intel CPU that has a quite good price/performace ratio is the Celeron 1200 (Tualatin core, 0.13um). They overclock well (1.5G is no problem, and many get higher), and they really have nothing to do with celeron since they have 256 kb cache. The only thing limiting them is 100 Mhz FSB, which you can overcome by Oc:ing. >>


That's what I have in my computer.

And let's not forget the Intel P-IIIMobility CPUs for notebooks. Still the best performance bang for the buck.




<< All that counts is

a) Performance
b) Price/Performance >>


To YOU perhaps. Some of us want to have the best performance. That's why some people are spending the extra $150 bucks to get the Athlon 1900XP over the 5% slower 1800XP. Others find Intel's 5-10% performance increase over AMD's fastest CPU to be well-worth the extra few hundred dollars. If you add in ALL the hardware in your computer including monitor and the software you use it is only a TINY percentage more to have the latest and greatest over second best.




<< Since price doesn't seem to be a factor for SOME of you, when does price ACTUALLY become a factor for you? I mean, what for you justifies paying multiple amounts of money (2.0x - 2.7x ) on a new processor compared to one that is about 5-7% slower >>


Let me explain it to you another way, NSF4 . . . I have MANY THOUSANDS invested in my computer and software (do I have to start listing Samsung 19" Flat monitor, Klipsch Pro Audio, $2000 dollars worth of printing equipment, UPSes, etc. etc. PLUS the MANY HUNDREDS in my software and programs that run on it.
I also know that many people have far nicer systems than I do (with professional software running many thousands of dollars). Some people do graphics intensive work or video editing and don't want to spend any more time than is necessary doing their work.
It is a source of pride to them to have the VERY BEST and I don't think 2 or 3 hundred dollars is going to make THAT much of a difference to any working professional.



<< Most of you "got to be the first" idiots never get much performance advantage anyways cause you don't wait for it to drop like it always does in about 1-1/2 to 2 months. pay a 270% price increase for 20percent performance increase over amd product is absurd...it will probably be only 15% when the 2000+ xp is released.... >>


Well how many people here paid an EXTRA $200 to have the latest GeForce3? Games STILL don't take full advantage of it's features yet.

It is all a matter of priority. If I choose to spend the extra $200-300 for an Intel setup, it is MY choice. Perhaps I'd rather drive a Kia instead of a Toyata and have a faster computer than yours. Or maybe someone has plenty of money to invest in his hobby. Come on, some guys have thousands of dollars invested in their home theater or audiophile systems. It is not for any of you to judge another or how they spend their money.

 

[damocles]

<< All that counts is

a) Performance
b) Price/Performance >>


To YOU perhaps. Some of us want to have the best performance. That's why some people are spending the extra $150 bucks to get the Athlon 1900XP over the 5% slower 1800XP. Others find the 10% plus performance increase over AMD's fastest CPU to be worth the extra few hundred dollars. If you add in ALL the hardware in your computer including monitor and the software you use it is only a TINY percentage more to have the latest and greatest over second best.

Some of us want to have the best performance

Which is why i listed 'performance' as a seperate category to 'price/performance'. They are 2 seperate reasonings for purchasing a processor.

If you read my other posts you will see that I quite clearly here

In a productive workplace there are a lot of factors and costs other than just capital outlay and asset performance. There are many situations where a small performance and productivity gain would outweigh a greater initial purchase cost

Of course there are other factors also, such as noise, stability etc but these aren't really processor specific

 

[ElFenix]

<< I have MANY THOUSANDS invested in my computer and software (do I have to start listing Samsung 19" Flat monitor, Klipsch Pro Audio, $2000 dollars worth of printing equipment, UPSes, etc. etc. PLUS the MANY HUNDREDS in my software and programs that run on it. >>

that analogy falls flat as none of that equipment/software could be purchased new 2 months from now at HALF the price its available at today.

its not simply the fact that a northwood 2.2 will be roughly double the price of a near equivalent 2000+ (or p4 2.0) when they're both released early next year, its the fact that the northwood 2.2 will depreciate so much in a short period of time.

and that is where amex blue comes in


EDIT: intel does this pricing to take full advantage of early adopters (esp those without a nice pricematching card) and to look like they're being nice when the press release "Intel to drop prices by up to 47%" comes out

 

[apoppin]

<< that analogy falls flat as none of that equipment/software could be purchased new 2 months from now at HALF the price its available at today. >>


Not really. If you buy an AMD Athlon XP1900+ you are paying quite a premium for AMD's fastest CPU over their next offering - the AMD XP1800+. Yet quite a few forum members went out and bought this OVERPRICED CPU (compared with it's 5% slower sibling) that will be WAY CHEAPER in a few months.

Who is to say that owning the FASTEST desktop CPU (period) isn't worth some kind of a premium? - especially those whose time is money in their work and 5-10% really does make a difference in rendering or extracting.





<< To YOU perhaps. >>


I'll admit I took it out of context without explaning myself (in that overlong windy post). I know your point and I really wasn't addressing you specifically. I was referring to the PLURAL you - the forum - regarding "Price vs. Performance". And I apologize to you damocles - for not clarifying.

 

[damocles]

No worries

 

[apoppin]

Thanks!

 

[ElFenix]

<< Not really. If you buy an AMD Athlon XP1900+ you are paying quite a premium for AMD's fastest CPU over their next offering - the AMD XP1800+. Yet quite a few forum members went out and bought this OVERPRICED CPU (compared with it's 5% slower sibling) that will be WAY CHEAPER in a few months. >>

still not cutting it, we're talking an order of magnitude of difference in price drop.

 

[apoppin]

<< still not cutting it, we're talking an order of magnitude of difference in price drop. >>


Not to you perhaps.

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor 2.20GHz, 400MHz FSB, Socket 478 at Googlegear NOW for $659
That's only about $380 more than the second fastest CPU and a drop in the bucket to some people (don't forget my example of people who's time is valuable in their work and that 5-10% speed increase makes a real difference).

 

[JackBurton]

<< Excuse me? If it were a car...maybe. But this is a piece of silicon that will be outdated in a few months and won't be worth nearly $700 in the end. >>


Kind of like buying a new car. The minute you take it off the lot you just have lost a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars. I guess you shouldn't buy a new car then. And why would someone buy an "overpriced" Lexus when they could have just as a reliable Toyota. Hmmmm. Maybe there are Toyota guys and Lexus guys. As for me, I'll pay the little extra for the Lexus.

 

[MasterHoss]

Wow, I am disappointed...I thought Northwood would end up beating the current AthlonXP processors.

Looks like my annual Spring upgrade will consist of an Athlon XP processor with a KT266A mobo (by that time, they should all have ATA133 support with USB2.0)

 

[NFS4]

<< That's only about $380 more than the second fastest CPU and a drop in the bucket to some people (don't forget my example of people who's time is valuable in their work and that 5-10% speed increase makes a real difference). >>


To MOST of the people on these forums (read: enthusiasts), $380 is A LOT OF MONEY.



<< Kind of like buying a new car. The minute you take it off the lot you just have lost a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars. I guess you shouldn't buy a new car then. And why would someone buy an "overpriced" Lexus when they could have just as a reliable Toyota. Hmmmm. Maybe there are Toyota guys and Lexus guys. As for me, I'll pay the little extra for the Lexus. >>


A new car loses 10% after it goes of the lot. A processor would lose close to half of it's value in a few months if sold used (especially if a new model comes out to replace it).

And I drive a Toyota

 

[oldfart]

The Northwood isn't really launched until Jan. 7 right? Isn't the $660 price the absolute highest pre launch price you could pay? It wont stay there. Wait a month or so for the price to settle down.

 

[apoppin]

<< To MOST of the people on these forums (read: enthusiasts), $380 is A LOT OF MONEY. >>


No wonder there is some jealousy noticeable here. It is so obvious in a few of the replies.



<< A new car loses 10% after it goes of the lot. A processor would lose close to half of it's value in a few months if sold used (especially if a new model comes out to replace it).

And I drive a Toyota
>>



My car actually gained value when I drove it off the lot and I bought it brand new.

And I drive a Kia.

(I paid $5988 cash for a brand new 2002 Rio with no trade in. I'd have no problem offsetting the money I saved on my car with the World's fastest Desktop processor for a few months IF it was a priority of mine.)

 

[NFS4]

<< No wonder there is some jealousy noticeable here. It is so obvious in a few of the replies. >>


Jealosy of what? What are you getting at?

 

[apoppin]

What, you haven't noticed?

Intel has finally come out with a processor that is actually faster than AMD's. And it is getting dissed simply because of it's introductory price. It is obvious (to me anyway) that some people are unhappy with owning what has become the second fastest processor and are pulling the "sour grapes" routine.

You KNOW I am not referring to you, NSF4 - just a general trend of people regarding their competitive nature.

My main point was not about "sour grapes" rather that to some people $380 is NOT al lot of money especially in work-related situations.

 

[ElFenix]

cars don't fall off in relative performance very quickly. in a year from now a corvette will still be one of the fastest cars on the road. a lexus will be just as smooth, and a civic si just as much a ricer. a year from now a p4 2.2 will be mid level at best.


and i'd love to see some seti benches on that thing... seti is an fsb beast.

 

[Rectalfier]

"Kind of like buying a new car. The minute you take it off the lot you just have lost a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars. I guess you shouldn't buy a new car then. And why would someone buy an "overpriced" Lexus when they could have just as a reliable Toyota. Hmmmm. Maybe there are Toyota guys and Lexus guys. As for me, I'll pay the little extra for the Lexus. "

Not a good analogy. Lexus is clearly a better car, therefore it is not unreasonable for it to cost more. Northwood 2.2Ghz is not clearly the best product. And besides, when Athlon XP 1900 was first released, it was clearly the most powerfull processor, but it did not cost $700+

"(I paid $5988 cash for a brand new 2002 Rio with no trade in. I'd have no problem offsetting the money I saved on my car with the World's fastest Desktop processor for a few months IF it was a priority of mine.) "

You should have bought the Athlon XP 1900 when it was first released, you could have paid much less for the "World's fastest Desktop processor".

Both of you guys appear to make your decisions based on cost. If something is more expensive, it is better. Although true in many cases, it should not be held as a rule of thumb.

 

[apoppin]

We are not talking cars although in 5 years, mine will still be covered by a 100,000 mile warranty even though it is an economy model.

We are talking CPUs. In 5 years, I doubt if it will be entry level. So what. Your brand new GeForce3 probably won't be able to run the average game then.

If you buy a 2.2 Ghz P4 right now, you will spend $650. In a few months, only $500. But if you have to do work with it NOW - where time is money - it is a very reasonable expense.

And . . . don't forget for that brand new 2.2Ghz Northwood P4 there's MasterCard . . .

bragging rights . . . priceless.



EDITED (thanks, ElFenix)

 

[apoppin]

<< Northwood 2.2Ghz is not clearly the best product. >>


No, but is is clearly the fastest.

I didn't want an Athlon XP1900+. I didn't want to bother with changing my MB and PS. Instead, I chose to do an interim upgrade for $169 - from my P3600E@800Mhz to a mildly overclocked 1.2Ghz Tualatin Celeron.

Actually, I am waiting for the 533FSB Northwood OR the Thoroughbred.


<< Both of you guys appear to make your decisions based on cost. If something is more expensive, it is better. Although true in many cases, it should not be held as a rule of thumb. >>

Where do you come up with that in my case?

 

[ElFenix]

its mastercard, duh!

and like i said, whatever i end up buying next month will be amex blue so i can actually get it at 2 months future pricing