Nothing matters...

[idNut]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Although you are explaining it as being a matter of logic, it is because you are depressed. Lots of people also realize that we are just tiny insignificant specks floating around in the universe, but they still have meaningful lives. Look into treatment (sounds like you have already) and/or medication, it could very likely be something like a chemical imbalance.

So it sounds like you're siding with my psychologist that this is just a side effect of depression? Hell, this is the cause of my depression.

I'm not "siding" with anyone, just giving my opinion. The fact is, depression is not something you are "supposed" to be, and if you are depressed, then you are "supposed" to fix it. I put quotes on "supposed" because it is the general consensus of society, but that's not to say it is right (since when do we know 100% of what there is to know about the mind?), although society says it is right. If you take care of your depression, you yourself will likely agree that being depressed is no fun.

Like Isla said, we're all in the exact same situation as you are, it's just a matter of enjoying your time on earth before it's over, that's all.

The issue of suicide is a strange one. I believe that there is no "soul", no "afterlife", none of that. When you die, it's simply lights out. In that regard, it makes suicide seem like not that bad of a thing, especially when life is so bleak. You could just end it all with a blow to the head or whatever, and you'd never exist again. Lights out, no pain. However, there are so many interesting things to do in life, I don't really think it's the best use of your um, "time" (time being the time alloted to you during life). How old are you? What do you not like about life? What can you do to change it? There is still the very huge issue of your depression, and taking care of it. If not depression, then another illness. It is simply not considered normal to feel the way you do, and therefore it likely falls under some category of mental illness. Get it taken care of, it is treatable.

So you don't believe in Descartes' saying of "I think therefore I am"? Man can't fathom eternity and/or nothing. I believe there has to be more than life.

 

[Ime]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Shrinks are idiots. All they do is meddle and screw things up even worse. Just bullsh!t the shrink.

BUZZ. Sorry you lose. Shrinks have helped millions of people across the world. Just because a shrink couldn't help you doesn't mean that the successful cases didn't happen because they have and they do.

Anyway idnut go on drugs. I think in your state of mind it's tough for anybody to convince you to because you think that "who cares it doesn't matter", so it's almost something you blindly have to do but if a shrink put you on the right drugs it could help, though I do realize there is little point in trying to convince you of it in your state of mind.

Shrinks are horrid! All mine did was make the situation worse, not better. It's funny, though.

It's been ten years, I'm married & well-adjusted. I love life and want to live to be a hundred and twenty.

I still hate shrinks, though.

 

[StageLeft]

If you take care of your depression, you yourself will likely agree that being depressed is no fun.

Very true. When you're on the other side (depression) you can't appreciate the side of those without it and they can't truly appreciate yours much of the time. That's why when anybody says that suicide is selfish or "just cheer up" they simply aren't getting it.

I've been depressed for long stints and when a person is in a deep depression not only do they believe that nothing can be done about it, but they don't even care enough if something could. A small part of them does wish for everything to be better but at the same time part of them pretends that they like being upset all the time. It makes them unique and they feel alive, even if not happy. Arguing with them can be difficult because they see the world in such a different view that it's often impossible for you to convince them of something, just as it's impossible for them to convince you of something.

My hope would be that when the depressed individual is having an "up" day (even those without bipolar disorder will have days better than others, even if the up day is still pretty bad) they manage to gain enough appreciation for what it would be like to be undepressed that they take the step in getting it fixed.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Although you are explaining it as being a matter of logic, it is because you are depressed. Lots of people also realize that we are just tiny insignificant specks floating around in the universe, but they still have meaningful lives. Look into treatment (sounds like you have already) and/or medication, it could very likely be something like a chemical imbalance.

So it sounds like you're siding with my psychologist that this is just a side effect of depression? Hell, this is the cause of my depression.

I'm not "siding" with anyone, just giving my opinion. The fact is, depression is not something you are "supposed" to be, and if you are depressed, then you are "supposed" to fix it. I put quotes on "supposed" because it is the general consensus of society, but that's not to say it is right (since when do we know 100% of what there is to know about the mind?), although society says it is right. If you take care of your depression, you yourself will likely agree that being depressed is no fun.

Like Isla said, we're all in the exact same situation as you are, it's just a matter of enjoying your time on earth before it's over, that's all.

The issue of suicide is a strange one. I believe that there is no "soul", no "afterlife", none of that. When you die, it's simply lights out. In that regard, it makes suicide seem like not that bad of a thing, especially when life is so bleak. You could just end it all with a blow to the head or whatever, and you'd never exist again. Lights out, no pain. However, there are so many interesting things to do in life, I don't really think it's the best use of your um, "time" (time being the time alloted to you during life). How old are you? What do you not like about life? What can you do to change it? There is still the very huge issue of your depression, and taking care of it. If not depression, then another illness. It is simply not considered normal to feel the way you do, and therefore it likely falls under some category of mental illness. Get it taken care of, it is treatable.

So you don't believe in Descartes' saying of "I think therefore I am"? Man can't fathom eternity and/or nothing. I believe there has to be more than life.

I agree with you. Man can't fathom jack sh!t, because we don't even know what it is. We THINK we know, but how do we know we are correct? We don't. And therefore I believe that we are an insignificant speck on the most insignificant speck of a piece of crap in a universe full of turds, so to speak. I don't think there is an end to anything, only infinity, and I don't think there ARE any beings that understand infinity. Every dimension is infinite, and there are infinite dimensions. etc. I could go on for hours about all the crap I think about.

 

[kami]

Jesus Christ man. You are so cut-off from the world it's not even funny. All your posts are like this...depressing "my life has no meaning and it sucks" posts. Well guess what, WE DON'T GIVE A SH!T. Maybe if you got off your ass and did something productive you wouldn't feel so down all the time.

You're anti-social.
You have no friends.
You hate school.
You hate yourself.

We get this.

Instead of posting this drivel on internet message boards looking for meaningless attention, you can either a) go get some real help (get some new help if you already got some) or b) stop being such a freakin pussy and go make something of yourself.

This isn't meant to be personal, but everyone needs a kick in the ass sometimes. You my friend need 2 or 3 hard kicks in the ass cause you're really missing out.

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've thought about this and I can definitely empathize with much (though not all) of the point of view. But I know that no matter how far I took such feelings I could never go all the way. If nothing mattered to you _truly_ you wouldn't even be writing this thread. You wouldn't read replies. You wouldn't be eating. You wouldn't do anything but probably lie on the floor oblivious to the world around you.

Sounds like the next step.

This thread is a cry for help, and a blazing one at that. If you truly wanted to go that way, you would not have posted this thread.

What can we do to help you out?

Well, if I change my beliefs now I am a true paradox and I hate contradicting myself. If I were to say foolishly "I have meaning and now I'm going to go fulfill that meaning" part of me would totally revolt against that and deny it. I'm in a circle and how do you repent to yourself when you firmly believe in your creed? You have to have something even more bold to compete with the current belief. You don't understand that I can't just say "I'm being stupid, get on with life". I truly believe in what I'm saying and I've had multiple people agree with me which furthermore backs my reason up. Anything which doesn't coinside with my beliefs is usually a very flimsy theory. I believe I've built my house on a rock of depression and happiness is for those who build in the sand.

 

[StageLeft]

Shrinks are horrid! All mine did was make the situation worse, not better. It's funny, though.

It's been ten years, I'm married & well-adjusted. I love life and want to live to be a hundred and twenty.

I still hate shrinks, though.

Me too but it sure would have been nice to have had some drugs those years back

 

[StageLeft]

Anything which doesn't coinside with my beliefs is usually a very flimsy theory. I believe I've built my house on a rock of depression and happiness is for those who build in the sand.

What is the meaning of your life exactly? A profound aspect of mine is the search for happiness - something I couldn't do if I was depressed. You've seen the movie the matrix. Let's pretend that you were right for an instant and that happy people are blind - well you noticed that Cipher would rather live in his fake happy world than the true matrix one.

For what that's worth you can certainly agree that a happy person is more adjusted to the trials in their life than a depressed person. They will be more successful, spread their seed better, etc.

It would be good if we could take people in the stage of depression that you're in and tie them to a bed and feed them with a bunch of fixer-uppers, then in a week unstrap them and talk to them. Since they'd be happy (even if drugs had to be used), you could finally talk them on a a level playing field and get them to agree that their depression sucked!

 

[nirgis]

idNut,

I know you have been denying that the nihilism is a result of your depression, but have you considered that at this moment of your life, your judgement must be impaired? What I mean is perhaps your depression is deluding you into thinking that lack of meaning is the cause and not the result of. So, I would seriously look further into therapy, trillions of people have led meaningful existences, don't think that you can't in some other way too.

If that paragraph doesnt win you over, let me try this one

I too am a nihilist. I believe in nothing, no God, no absolute reality, whatever. The only thing that I know are the emotions that I can feel. Perhaps you are thinking on too large of a scale. Existence is meaningles? Who cares? Live your life if only for the express purpose of feeling pleasure. Maybe don't eat for a few days until you are really hungry, then eat whatever you want. Stay up for days on end, then go to sleep. Start running as fast as you can, until you are exausted, then revel in the pleasure of resting. I hope this reaches you in some way

Ben

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've thought about this and I can definitely empathize with much (though not all) of the point of view. But I know that no matter how far I took such feelings I could never go all the way. If nothing mattered to you _truly_ you wouldn't even be writing this thread. You wouldn't read replies. You wouldn't be eating. You wouldn't do anything but probably lie on the floor oblivious to the world around you.

Sounds like the next step.

This thread is a cry for help, and a blazing one at that. If you truly wanted to go that way, you would not have posted this thread.

What can we do to help you out?

Well, if I change my beliefs now I am a true paradox and I hate contradicting myself. If I were to say foolishly "I have meaning and now I'm going to go fulfill that meaning" part of me would totally revolt against that and deny it. I'm in a circle and how do you repent to yourself when you firmly believe in your creed? You have to have something even more bold to compete with the current belief. You don't understand that I can't just say "I'm being stupid, get on with life". I truly believe in what I'm saying and I've had multiple people agree with me which furthermore backs my reason up. Anything which doesn't coinside with my beliefs is usually a very flimsy theory. I believe I've built my house on a rock of depression and happiness is for those who build in the sand.

Not so, I agree with you that there is no meaning in life. There is no happy ending, no wonderful god to go to after everything is over. There is nothing magical about life, WHILE it's happening. There is something very magical about it in hindsight. I believe what you believe just as much as you believe it. The difference is that I don't care, and I still intend on enjoying life despite the lack of "meaning". I love exercising my mind. I love talking about things that make me think. I love doing things that make me think. I love discussing things like this, in fact. I love getting to know cool people. Those things provide enough entertainment for me to get by. What you need is to find things that matter. People, "causes", etc. Surely in your years on earth you have stumbled upon things you enjoy, what are they? How can you take those things and use them to give meaning to your life?

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: kami
Jesus Christ man. You are so cut-off from the world it's not even funny. All your posts are like this...depressing "my life has no meaning and it sucks" posts. Well guess what, WE DON'T GIVE A SH!T. Maybe if you got off your ass and did something productive you wouldn't feel so down all the time.

You're anti-social.
You have no friends.
You hate school.
You hate yourself.

We get this.

Instead of posting this drivel on internet message boards looking for meaningless attention, you can either a) go get some real help (get some new help if you already got some) or b) stop being such a freakin pussy and go make something of yourself.

This isn't meant to be personal, but everyone needs a kick in the ass sometimes. You my friend need 2 or 3 hard kicks in the ass cause you're really missing out.

I have friends, really sh!tty ones but they work. I don't hate myself at all, I don't like the way I physically look but not myself. I hate some of my thoughts too but for the most part, I really like myself. I am anti-social and I most definitely hate school though.

This board has actually helped me more than my stupid fvckin psychologist that I pay about $100 an hour to see. I'm not posting this sh!t out of the stupidity of my heart but for some more opinions and they've really helped me grasp new ideas. It's slowly but surely working.

 

[Jzero]

10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: Jzero
10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

LMAO. Been looking forward to it actually. (Now I feel real pathetic. Heh. )

 

[Narse]

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Jzero
10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

LMAO. Been looking forward to it actually. (Now I feel real pathetic. Heh. )

Nothing to feel pathetic about, Something to look forward no matter how small makes all the differance

 

[Moonbeam]

I have answered this same post so very many times. I finally saved an answer that I've saved before:I really should have a stock saved answer to this question because I'm sort of tired rewriting the same thing all the time. In fact let me look. I wrote this last night in response to a PM:

"Well I know that story. (What would happen if you lost the most important things to you) What happened to me was that I was a wise guy. I wanted to know the truth. I believed in God and I wanted to prove He existed to everybody so they would try to be good. I wanted so so much for there to be happiness and beauty and everlasting life and a reward for good. So I set out to prove the good and I found out that there's nothing, no truth, no answer, no reward, nothing but the cold benign indifference of the universe. My live went black, empty, hopeless. I could barely breath. I was a walking mass of pain. Came across Zen. Not a tile above or a place to put your foot. But they were smiling. WTF WTF's with the smile. In the middle of the night pondering over this, the wind hit the house, mind stopped, and my heart, my heart, my forgotten heart came back to me.

You know the Zen story, the one about the guy chased over a cliff by a tiger. He's hanging on for dear life (to his opinions ) and below there's another tiger. Muscles tiring he sees a strawberry growing on the cliff. He plucked it and it tasted so good.

For what I know, not much, I paid with every thing I valued. You are not your opinions, you are a chimpanzee full of piss and vinegar."

Well that's a brief version of my story. I KNEW that I would never be happy. I knew it with all my being, er, except for the part I hadn't been since I was small. A blast of wind turned me inside out. I have never suffered since and it's been a while. Now there was this instant change that revolutionizes your understanding, but you remain, in many ways the same. I am still unconscious of all my feelings and have had some opportunities to explore them. I can tell you that sadness, depression is suppressed rage, and rage is a defense against feeling hurt. We are up against a powerful opponent, the desire not to know, not to remember. I have seen people collapse into their feelings and I have done it. You cannot imagine the quantity of rage that is buried or the enormity of pain and hurt and grief that lies below. To tap into that, to know the fastness of suffering we experienced that for us today would make us laugh, did make me laugh is like bleeding lava out of a volcano. The relief is staggering. At our core we are joy. I met a man who had been down all the way. He was a sun.

Now there is another issue that must be carefully considered. I can't say for sure that all feelings of unhappiness are purely psychological in nature. You may have chemical depression and could greatly benefit, be enlightened by anti-depressant drugs. You should, in my opinion, at any rate get yourself evaluated by a professional. I thought of death many times in them days. I'm glad I didn't take that route. We have been made to feel bad and there isn't anything wrong with us at all. The one exception may be the chemical thing. Don't know if it's cause or effect, but that one may be easy to check and treat.
---------------------------------------

I understand exactly what you mean idNut about it being the cause of unhappiness, not a symptom. I don't understand the alchemy that changed an empty glass into one filled with life. It had to do with letting go. There's a difference between knowing that life is meaningless and really allowing that reality to sink in all the way. There is nothing more or less meaningless than meaninglessness itself. We cling to some feeling, to our illusion that it was supposed to be different.

In your case you have not explored just how deeply you may have burried your feelings, especially those relating to your parents. I remember a movey about a famous baseball player who was put under tremendous pressure by his father to play. He cracked on the field and when straight jacketed replied to somebody that commented that his father had doen this to him he screamed back, if it weren't for my father, I wouldn't be were I am today, straight jacketed, and on his way to the hospital.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: kami
Jesus Christ man. You are so cut-off from the world it's not even funny. All your posts are like this...depressing "my life has no meaning and it sucks" posts. Well guess what, WE DON'T GIVE A SH!T. Maybe if you got off your ass and did something productive you wouldn't feel so down all the time.

You're anti-social.
You have no friends.
You hate school.
You hate yourself.

We get this.

Instead of posting this drivel on internet message boards looking for meaningless attention, you can either a) go get some real help (get some new help if you already got some) or b) stop being such a freakin pussy and go make something of yourself.

This isn't meant to be personal, but everyone needs a kick in the ass sometimes. You my friend need 2 or 3 hard kicks in the ass cause you're really missing out.

I have friends, really sh!tty ones but they work. I don't hate myself at all, I don't like the way I physically look but not myself. I hate some of my thoughts too but for the most part, I really like myself. I am anti-social and I most definitely hate school though.

This board has actually helped me more than my stupid fvckin psychologist that I pay about $100 an hour to see. I'm not posting this sh!t out of the stupidity of my heart but for some more opinions and they've really helped me grasp new ideas. It's slowly but surely working.

You're not the only nutcase

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Narse77

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Jzero
10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

LMAO. Been looking forward to it actually. (Now I feel real pathetic. Heh. )

Nothing to feel pathetic about, Something to look forward no matter how small makes all the differance

Yep. Do it 10x over and you're a lifer. Then you join the ranks of ATOT's REAL elite!

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Narse77

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Jzero
10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

LMAO. Been looking forward to it actually. (Now I feel real pathetic. Heh. )

Nothing to feel pathetic about, Something to look forward no matter how small makes all the differance

Yep. Do it 10x over and you're a lifer. Then you join the ranks of ATOT's REAL elite!

No way in hell will I make it to 10,000. That's just plain lunacy.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Narse77

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Jzero
10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

LMAO. Been looking forward to it actually. (Now I feel real pathetic. Heh. )

Nothing to feel pathetic about, Something to look forward no matter how small makes all the differance

Yep. Do it 10x over and you're a lifer. Then you join the ranks of ATOT's REAL elite!

No way in hell will I make it to 10,000. That's just plain lunacy.

There's hope for you yet, then!

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Narse77

Originally posted by: idNut

Originally posted by: Jzero
10 more posts and you'll be GOLDEN! If that doesn't give your life meaning, nothing will

LMAO. Been looking forward to it actually. (Now I feel real pathetic. Heh. )

Nothing to feel pathetic about, Something to look forward no matter how small makes all the differance

Yep. Do it 10x over and you're a lifer. Then you join the ranks of ATOT's REAL elite!

No way in hell will I make it to 10,000. That's just plain lunacy.

There's hope for you yet, then!

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I have answered this same post so very many times. I finally saved an answer that I've saved before:I really should have a stock saved answer to this question because I'm sort of tired rewriting the same thing all the time. In fact let me look. I wrote this last night in response to a PM:

"Well I know that story. (What would happen if you lost the most important things to you) What happened to me was that I was a wise guy. I wanted to know the truth. I believed in God and I wanted to prove He existed to everybody so they would try to be good. I wanted so so much for there to be happiness and beauty and everlasting life and a reward for good. So I set out to prove the good and I found out that there's nothing, no truth, no answer, no reward, nothing but the cold benign indifference of the universe. My live went black, empty, hopeless. I could barely breath. I was a walking mass of pain. Came across Zen. Not a tile above or a place to put your foot. But they were smiling. WTF WTF's with the smile. In the middle of the night pondering over this, the wind hit the house, mind stopped, and my heart, my heart, my forgotten heart came back to me.

You know the Zen story, the one about the guy chased over a cliff by a tiger. He's hanging on for dear life (to his opinions ) and below there's another tiger. Muscles tiring he sees a strawberry growing on the cliff. He plucked it and it tasted so good.

For what I know, not much, I paid with every thing I valued. You are not your opinions, you are a chimpanzee full of piss and vinegar."

Well that's a brief version of my story. I KNEW that I would never be happy. I knew it with all my being, er, except for the part I hadn't been since I was small. A blast of wind turned me inside out. I have never suffered since and it's been a while. Now there was this instant change that revolutionizes your understanding, but you remain, in many ways the same. I am still unconscious of all my feelings and have had some opportunities to explore them. I can tell you that sadness, depression is suppressed rage, and rage is a defense against feeling hurt. We are up against a powerful opponent, the desire not to know, not to remember. I have seen people collapse into their feelings and I have done it. You cannot imagine the quantity of rage that is buried or the enormity of pain and hurt and grief that lies below. To tap into that, to know the fastness of suffering we experienced that for us today would make us laugh, did make me laugh is like bleeding lava out of a volcano. The relief is staggering. At our core we are joy. I met a man who had been down all the way. He was a sun.

Now there is another issue that must be carefully considered. I can't say for sure that all feelings of unhappiness are purely psychological in nature. You may have chemical depression and could greatly benefit, be enlightened by anti-depressant drugs. You should, in my opinion, at any rate get yourself evaluated by a professional. I thought of death many times in them days. I'm glad I didn't take that route. We have been made to feel bad and there isn't anything wrong with us at all. The one exception may be the chemical thing. Don't know if it's cause or effect, but that one may be easy to check and treat.
---------------------------------------

I understand exactly what you mean idNut about it being the cause of unhappiness, not a symptom. I don't understand the alchemy that changed an empty glass into one filled with life. It had to do with letting go. There's a difference between knowing that life is meaningless and really allowing that reality to sink in all the way. There is nothing more or less meaningless than meaninglessness itself. We cling to some feeling, to our illusion that it was supposed to be different.

In your case you have not explored just how deeply you may have burried your feelings, especially those relating to your parents. I remember a movey about a famous baseball player who was put under tremendous pressure by his father to play. He cracked on the field and when straight jacketed replied to somebody that commented that his father had doen this to him he screamed back, if it weren't for my father, I wouldn't be were I am today, straight jacketed, and on his way to the hospital.

Sound like a writer. Good points and new ways of putting it. The cause and not a symptom were the words I was looking for. Helluva story.

 

[idNut]

3

 

[idNut]

2

 

[idNut]

1

 

[idNut]

yea...yea...