Nuclear power...

[Aimster]

If the U.S has a problem with certain nations getting nuclear energy, it should offer them 10,000 solar power - windmill look alike things.

If you haven't noticed from reading my previous statement alone, I don't know squat about solar power or wind power. However, I think it might be a great idea that no nation will want to pass up.
The problem is I assume 10,000 of those things is going to be EXPENSIVE and not so reliable?

Just throwing crap in the air.

I don't support widespread nuclear reactors in every nation. I don't trust people. It takes one bad person to destroy a country and possibly the world. I hope we can eventually move away from nuclear power to something that cannot be used as a weapon.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Aimster
If the U.S has a problem with certain nations getting nuclear energy, it should offer them 10,000 solar power - windmill look alike things.

If you haven't noticed from reading my previous statement alone, I don't know squat about solar power. However, I think it might be a great idea that no nation will want to pass up.
The problem is I assume 10,000 of those things is going to be EXPENSIVE and not so reliable?

Just throwing crap in the air.

:thumbsup: (in relation to my previous post). good one.

 

[Trell]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: crownjules

Originally posted by: piasabird
Make electricity from burning Methane which is free at any landfill!

Acutally, this article
shows it may not be far from the truth.

Basic synopsis - A company has developed a machine that, via a plasma incinerator, burns garbage to produce steam (that powers a turbine) and a syngas byproduct that can be sold for industrial purposes. It's not 100% proven, and there's still questions about the 'slag' byproduct of all the burned materials, but it could potentially help address two problems.

I didnt' read the whole article, but based on your synopsis, the methane solution is a bit different than what you propose.

Essentially, landfills (I actually think in terms of Hog Lagoons (pig ****** for you Yankees) as that is the biggest culprit back home), give off tons of methane vapor. My pops actually did some research into this years back, and based on his info as well as a microbio professor of mine, it's been calculated that with harvesting and processing the amount of methane released from one large Hog Lagoon in one day, you could power a small town for that day.

Freaking ridiculous. Especially when you consider the multi-pronged enviro-bonus that this could have:

1) lining the lagoon with a rubber bladder significantly (almost completely) reduces the nitrate introduction into local water systems (which causes algal blooms, pfisteria, choke fish and other aquatic life etc)

2) By trapping and re-processing that methane, you're significantly reducing one of the major greenhouse gases

3) Well, I'm not sure what the processing involves, but I'd like to think that by trapping the gas you could seriously reduce the oder (those that have driven through eastern NC know what a hog lagoon smells like )

4) essentially....free energy (once manufacturing costs are paid over); people will keep eating BBQ, and hogs will keep sh1tting

5)Another target for Biff Tannen to wreck his vehicle into



I believe the methane from a large landfill is comparable.

But as for the trash-grinding proposal: Sounds cool too, b/c what doesn't sound cool when a Plasma Gassification System is involved? I don't care what it does, but I totally want one of those!

Who rules bartertown?

 

[BrownTown]

TVA has an 8MW methane gas facility that produces the CHEAPEST of its green power sources. Actually to my understanding it is competitive with other fossil fuel generation, but still it is only so small because it is not so easy as you might wish to trap also this methane and burn it (TVA does it from a landfill 2 miles from a coal plant and just directly inject the methane into one of the boilers, so they didn't have to build any new stuff, just put the methane in and take some of the coal out).

 

[Acanthus]

How the hell is burning fuel green energy?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
How the hell is burning fuel green energy?

burning methane, not "fuel"

it's waste recycling. Converting our output back into input is about as green as you can get.

 

[BrownTown]

methane is 25 times as bad a greenhouse gas as CO2. Therefore burning methane produces 1/25 the greenhouse effect as letting the methane escape as well as generating power at the same time. It is more or less the MOST earth friendly source imaginable, things like solar wind and nuclear only claim to produce no greenhouse gasses, burning methane from landfills produces power AND removes greenhouse gasses from the environment at the same time.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
methane is 25 times as bad a greenhouse gas as CO2. Therefore burning methane produces 1/25 the greenhouse effect as letting the methane escape as well as generating power at the same time. It is more or less the MOST earth friendly source imaginable, things like solar wind and nuclear only claim to produce no greenhouse gasses, burning methane from landfills produces power AND removes greenhouse gasses from the environment at the same time.

Why hadn't I heard about this before? That's interesting, you'd think something like this would have more exposure. Then again, it's 25x as bad per unit, does plain ol CO2 overshadow methane because there's so much more of it being produced?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: BrownTown
methane is 25 times as bad a greenhouse gas as CO2. Therefore burning methane produces 1/25 the greenhouse effect as letting the methane escape as well as generating power at the same time. It is more or less the MOST earth friendly source imaginable, things like solar wind and nuclear only claim to produce no greenhouse gasses, burning methane from landfills produces power AND removes greenhouse gasses from the environment at the same time.

Why hadn't I heard about this before? That's interesting, you'd think something like this would have more exposure. Then again, it's 25x as bad per unit, does plain ol CO2 overshadow methane because there's so much more of it being produced?

I think so. Considering that the majority of released methane comes from world-wide cow farts, it's not hard to believe that CO2 tends to have a more significant, or rather "addressed" impact.

Anyhoo, one molecule of methane degrades more molecules of Ozone than does one molecule of CO2. (I believe something like 3-5x as much?). While methane released from landfills/waste lagoons is significant enough to be used as a viable energy source...capturing that released through livestock asses presents far more problems

News sources don't like to talk about manure, trash, and cow farts when it comes to legitimate solutions to our energy problems...it's just not that appealing. But it is strange how a lot of college Bio courses will discuss this, but it doesn't get into the public too often...

 

[BrownTown]

More info on Greenhouse gasses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Some of the CFCs are just totally nasty as greenhouses gasses as well as their impacts on the ozone layer. Also of note is the majority of the greenhouse effect is caused by water vapor. However of course CO2 has the largest effect of the man made chemicals, and the CFC as shown in that graph are more or less no longer being used (however they will stay in the atmosphere for thousands of years from previous usage).

Burning landfill gas however is not very popular compared to wind and solar for a few reasons. First off people don't usually think of the word "clean" as n in "clean energy" when related to trash and human waste. Also, since you are burning something it appears to be no different than buring coal (like I said before TVAs plant IS a coal plant where the landfill gas in infect into one of the coal furnaces). It requires some knowledge of chemistry to understand just exactly why producing CO2 could actually be GOOD for the environment (since you eliminate the even worse methane). However, it is certainly no energy pancea, the amount of methane available from landfills is certainly not enough to meet anywhere close to our energy demands, but still it is actually a very CHEAP way of producing power that is green (definitely cheaper than solar, probably competitive or better than wind, also since you can store the methane its more reliable).

EDIT: TVA website says 4.5 cents/kWh for landfill gas.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Acanthus
How the hell is burning fuel green energy?

burning methane, not "fuel"

it's waste recycling. Converting our output back into input is about as green as you can get.

That would still emit pollutants...

I fail to see how this is a solution to any problem, greenhouse gases do not work by depleting the ozone layer.

Please look up the definition of what fuel is.

 

[zinfamous]

consider the CO2 that is produced from burning coal, or even that the coal being consumed is using a natural resource. However, using methane from a source such as trash/waste is reclaiming "lost" energy. Coal would be stored energy potential, An "irreplaceable" resource (not lkely of course, but for the purpose of this argument, imagine it as a naturally producing resource that we are not replacing as we use it)

With methane, this is an energy source that we are creating, and wasting, and will continue to replace. That simple benefit alone is a huge advantage, and the CO2 produced from harvesting energy would be far more acceptable than that being produced from using coal or even natural gas.

Again, my experience is more in regards to Hog Waste, as the environmental impact concerning such lagoons in my home state is far more serious than that concerning a landfill. Not to mention the greater benefits gained when those lagoons are contained and put to energy-producing purposes.

when you consider the situation typical among many hog farmers (some are starting to wise up though), where they intentionally flood their lagoons in anticipation of a huge storm, so that the storm will wash teh lagoons clean, thereby introducing huge amounts of nitrates into the water source-in particular the Neuse River. This has a seriously destructive impact on the water ecosystem, as well as the aquaculture economy of Eastern NC. If you are familiar with pfisteria outbreaks that made major headlines in the 90s, as well as algal blooms, red tides, etc...the impact is far greater. Some solutions (What my father was involved with for a time), involve simple bacteriological methods of dealing with the waste--introducing anaerobic bacteria into the lagoons that break down the nitrates, and significantly reduce the immediate environmental impact. This doesn't even address the benefits gained through energy harvesting...

Hell, convince a farmer that he could potentially make a significant profit by building harvesting stations over his lagoons, and selling that energy to local townships, and you have a win-win-win situation. This to me is an amazing solution to several serious problems...why we aren't further along with it is beyond me....

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I hate to put salt peter on your nuclear boner but here goes.

LOL @ "nuclear boner."

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: BrownTown
methane is 25 times as bad a greenhouse gas as CO2. Therefore burning methane produces 1/25 the greenhouse effect as letting the methane escape as well as generating power at the same time. It is more or less the MOST earth friendly source imaginable, things like solar wind and nuclear only claim to produce no greenhouse gasses, burning methane from landfills produces power AND removes greenhouse gasses from the environment at the same time.

Why hadn't I heard about this before? That's interesting, you'd think something like this would have more exposure. Then again, it's 25x as bad per unit, does plain ol CO2 overshadow methane because there's so much more of it being produced?

A couple years ago bushed pushed an agreement with several other countries for methane to markets. It was largely crapped on by liberals as an effort to undermine kyoto. It did make the news.

CO2 is the poster boy of global warming as you cant even breath without producing co2. It is the lowest common denominator of burning any fuel.