nVidia GT200 Series Thread

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
vr-zone's preview is up!

http://www.vr-zone.com/article...80_Preview/5872-1.html

Benches seem low. I think game day drivers will boost things quite a bit. Vr zone is very connected to nvidia - so I am sure they were careful to not release anything that would take away from a nice launch.

 

[taltamir]

well, it handily beats GX2 in most things... as a single GPU... it will be beastly at tri...

Also... it looses by a little at crysis... but that that was tested at medium settings... I wonder how it would do in very high settings (where i think it will handily outpace the GX2)

Spec-wise, it is a GX2 on one core... so you could ONLY see improvement as it should completely eliminate inefficiency of the dual die setup.

 

[ronnn]

With 50% better shaders, I expect more to come.

 

[tuteja1986]

well this isn't detail review at all , I will will wait for more better review. people at computerbase.de have hinted of being a card for people with high res monitor and who want to use AA. They solved their 8xAA problem as performance dramatically drops when going 4 to 8 in G80 and G92 architecture.

 

[taltamir]

the review specifically says "this is what we got so far, we are CURRENTLY running more reviews and will add them as they are finished"... ofcourse it is not detailed!

They have one card, they do a test, they post it... check back in a few hours...

 

[Leon]

I never said the X1800XT wasn't released after the GTX, did I?

And yet you said....

ATI was the undisputable high-end champ from the days of R300 to the X1950 series

So, let me ask you a question. Are you suggesting that x800 was better than 7800GTX, or do you admit that 7800GTX was undisputed high end champ for at least six months?

Now, with that in mind....I noticed you use newest games (aka Crysis) as a basis for x1900 "superiority"

Lets use this analogy on your other comparison

The X800/X850 beat 6800 in D3D and how many OGL games were there? Besides Doom 3 & Quake 4, none that anybody played.

Question: What is the performance of X800 series on these new titles?

Mass Effect
Bioshock
Rainbow 6 Vegas
Latest SC
Jericho
Grid
Dirt

And quite a few other SM3 titles

Answer: 0fps - they will not run at all. Yet, they are perfectly playable on SM3 6800 series. So, by your own logic, 6800 series were better high end boards, as they remain viable, even today.

 

[n7]

Results look nice, but not anywhere close to $650+ nice.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I think what people are forgetting is that this (price) is considered normal. We may have been lucky enough to go through a generation of cheap hardware (let it be GPUs, CPUs), but i think the industry is moving on from that this time around (something thats normal as well). There were the sort of prices when the 7900GTX, X1900XTX and the likes were released at. (Add in 6800Ultra/X800XTPE too). Normally people who are more concerned about their wallet taking a big hit would opt to buy the second fastest, and in this case the GTX260. (taking a trip back to memory lane -> 6800GT, 7800GT, X1900XT, 8800GTS640 etc)

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: n7
Results look nice, but not anywhere close to $650+ nice.

well... if you GOTTA have the fastest in the world... and it is either 3x GTX280 or 4x 4870... money isn't an issue...

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I think what people are forgetting is that this (price) is considered normal. We may have been lucky enough to go through a generation of cheap hardware (let it be GPUs, CPUs), but i think the industry is moving on from that this time around (something thats normal as well). There were the sort of prices when the 7900GTX, X1900XTX and the likes were released at. (Add in 6800Ultra/X800XTPE too). Normally people who are more concerned about their wallet taking a big hit would opt to buy the second fastest, and in this case the GTX260. (taking a trip back to memory lane -> 6800GT, 7800GT, X1900XT, 8800GTS640 etc)

The good thing about IT is that price go down as we move foward... not up.

GT200 price is probably high because of yield problems. Anyways , GT280 should have be priced at $499 which is what 7800GTX was priced when it was released.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
GT280 should have be priced at $499 which is what 7800GTX was priced when it was released.

What makes you think that the next top of the line would be priced less than the last top of the line (9800GX2) when you compare the launch of the two? Especially when its going to all be 1 GPU, no SLI headaches. And the previous Top of the line - the Ultra, was how much? $799+? People are pulling pricing numbers from nowhere...!

 

[Janooo]

VR preliminary conclusion.

Apparently preliminary testing did not show any jaw-dropping results. The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 can be considered as somewhat of a 're-work' of the GeForce 9800 GX2 into a single core package with faster processing capability and more bandwidth.

There is not much performance boost for older games, but for DirectX 10 games like World in Conflict, there is a more noticable improvement over the GeForce 9800 GX2. Not only DirectX 10 titles get a boost when you pick the GeForce GTX 280 over the GeForce 9800 GX2, using the former is more advantageous when you move up to a very high resolution of 2560 x 1600, a resolution found on 30-inch LCDs.

A point to note is abnormal performance in Crysis. We've tried re-benching the GeForce GTX 280 a few times but were greeted with the same results. However during benching, we did notice periodic stutters which were not present while benching the older GeForce 9800 GX2 cards. We are looking into this issue.

We are in the midst of testing Crysis on High settings (and with AA), as well as AA/AF on the other games. Stay tuned, as we work hard to bring you more results from the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 1GB.

Stutters? I thought only multi GPU are supposed to do that.
I hope they find it and fix it.

 

[BFG10K]

http://www.hardware-infos.com/...Performance-Ergebnisse

 

[Cookie Monster]

Have you noticed the minimal impact 8xAA has on G200?

Those figures are pretty impressive (for SLi that is).

 

[ViRGE]

What the heck's up with everyone only using 2GB of RAM? A $600 video card, and you can only be bothered to couple it with $50 in RAM?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I think what people are forgetting is that this (price) is considered normal. We may have been lucky enough to go through a generation of cheap hardware (let it be GPUs, CPUs), but i think the industry is moving on from that this time around (something thats normal as well). There were the sort of prices when the 7900GTX, X1900XTX and the likes were released at. (Add in 6800Ultra/X800XTPE too). Normally people who are more concerned about their wallet taking a big hit would opt to buy the second fastest, and in this case the GTX260. (taking a trip back to memory lane -> 6800GT, 7800GT, X1900XT, 8800GTS640 etc)

The good thing about IT is that price go down as we move foward... not up.

GT200 price is probably high because of yield problems. Anyways , GT280 should have be priced at $499 which is what 7800GTX was priced when it was released.

Tuteja, prices have not gone down, like everything else, they've gone up.

The 7800GTX released at $600:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451

The GeForce 7800 GTX will cost a solid $600.

High end motherboards cost more than they ever have (over $400) high end CPUs cost more than they ever have (over $1400) and high end RAM costs more than it ever has (over $600)

The top end of anything costs more, and the amount of performance increase this card will give over any other single GPU card more than justifies the price. (check out the difference in using the stuff above and parts that cost half as much for proof of that)

The Geforce 2 Ultra was over $500 8.5 years ago, the top end card today won't cost the same

 

[Hauk]

The rumor is that the 280 will launch for $499 instead of $649 right? This ebay store is listing the 4850 at $199 but is listing the 280 for $669.

His 4850 price seems in line but the 280 price is high. Could this be an indicator that the rumored price drop will not occur? An ebay auction is certainly not a good indicator, but it does make me wonder...

Powercolor 4850 for $199

EVGA 280 for $669

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I think what people are forgetting is that this (price) is considered normal. We may have been lucky enough to go through a generation of cheap hardware (let it be GPUs, CPUs), but i think the industry is moving on from that this time around (something thats normal as well). There were the sort of prices when the 7900GTX, X1900XTX and the likes were released at. (Add in 6800Ultra/X800XTPE too). Normally people who are more concerned about their wallet taking a big hit would opt to buy the second fastest, and in this case the GTX260. (taking a trip back to memory lane -> 6800GT, 7800GT, X1900XT, 8800GTS640 etc)

The good thing about IT is that price go down as we move foward... not up.

GT200 price is probably high because of yield problems. Anyways , GT280 should have be priced at $499 which is what 7800GTX was priced when it was released.

Tuteja, prices have not gone down, like everything else, they've gone up.

The 7800GTX released at $600:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451

The GeForce 7800 GTX will cost a solid $600.

High end motherboards cost more than they ever have (over $400) high end CPUs cost more than they ever have (over $1400) and high end RAM costs more than it ever has (over $600)

The top end of anything costs more, and the amount of performance increase this card will give over any other single GPU card more than justifies the price. (check out the difference in using the stuff above and parts that cost half as much for proof of that)

The Geforce 2 Ultra was over $500 8.5 years ago, the top end card today won't cost the same

I think you forget something, a $400 motherboard doesn't provide the performance advantage, it gives more feature.

A $300 CPU like Q9300 can be easily and safely overclocking on stock cooling to performance of a $1400 cpu.

Anyways , the GT280 is overpriced like the $400 mother or the $1400 cpu. They are only for the people who have loads of cash. I will wait for the $300 version of GT280 which should come out by December.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150304
A 2x9600GT $140 each ends up as fast a single GT260.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130339
2x9800GTX $269 each ends up as fast a single GT280 and has better sli profile than 9800GX2.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814133227
A 9800GX2 cost $429 and its end being 30% slower than GT280

This all cause of competition, As soon as the competitor goes in to trouble we see innovation go down. A person that bought a 8800GTX in 2006 has no real reason to upgrade unless he wants too play Crysis in better frame rate.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
The rumor is that the 280 will launch for $499 instead of $649 right? This ebay store is listing the 4850 at $199 but is listing the 280 for $669.

His 4850 price seems in line but the 280 price is high. Could this be an indicator that the rumored price drop will not occur? An ebay auction is certainly not a good indicator, but it does make me wonder...

Powercolor 4850 for $199

EVGA 280 for $669

It was a rumor that the GTX 280 and GTX 260 price would drop...then another rumor that, only the GTX 260 price would drop and the GTX 280 would stay at $650.

I would susptect that by September the GTX will be available for a good deal less than the MSRP if it actually launches at $600+

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

A 2x9600GT $140 each ends up as fast a single GT260.
.

I doubt that very seriously 2X 9600GT it not much faster than a single 9800GTX in many games and with higher resolutions

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814133227
A 9800GX2 cost $429 and its end being 30% slower than GT280

This all cause of competition, As soon as the competitor goes in to trouble we see innovation go down. A person that bought a 8800GTX in 2006 has no real reason to upgrade unless he wants too play Crysis in better frame rate.

1. As noted before, you can't compare multi GPU to single GPU as they don't perform the same. Multi GPU scaling is variable.

2. Whether a person needs to update a 8800GTX depends a lot on the game they are playing, the resolution they are playing at, and the level of AA.

As a guy who has an 8800Ultra (last gen best) a couple GTX280s (this gen best) and a 25X16 monitor I can tell you this is an upgrade I would have done imnmediately even if I were paying for the cards. There's always room for imrovement for the high end, high res gamer.

Your point might be valid at 16X10, but 16X10 isn't the target market for the top end card, as it's only half the pixels of the top end monitors.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I think what people are forgetting is that this (price) is considered normal. We may have been lucky enough to go through a generation of cheap hardware (let it be GPUs, CPUs), but i think the industry is moving on from that this time around (something thats normal as well). There were the sort of prices when the 7900GTX, X1900XTX and the likes were released at. (Add in 6800Ultra/X800XTPE too). Normally people who are more concerned about their wallet taking a big hit would opt to buy the second fastest, and in this case the GTX260. (taking a trip back to memory lane -> 6800GT, 7800GT, X1900XT, 8800GTS640 etc)

The good thing about IT is that price go down as we move foward... not up.

GT200 price is probably high because of yield problems. Anyways , GT280 should have be priced at $499 which is what 7800GTX was priced when it was released.

Tuteja, prices have not gone down, like everything else, they've gone up.

The 7800GTX released at $600:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451

The GeForce 7800 GTX will cost a solid $600.

High end motherboards cost more than they ever have (over $400) high end CPUs cost more than they ever have (over $1400) and high end RAM costs more than it ever has (over $600)

The top end of anything costs more, and the amount of performance increase this card will give over any other single GPU card more than justifies the price. (check out the difference in using the stuff above and parts that cost half as much for proof of that)

The Geforce 2 Ultra was over $500 8.5 years ago, the top end card today won't cost the same

More than ever is an overstatement.

More than in recent history. Yes.

RDRAM ring a bell?
$2000 Intel Processors ring a bell?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: solofly
No I'm not joking. I wish I was joking but the reality is ati makes great hardware but can't write drivers worth shit. Takes months for game fixes and I when they do come they usually break something else along the way. No thanks, I don't need the headaches...

you sound like a blind fanboy , ATI and Nvidia both have had their share of driver problem. Since you only used one company for very long you are still stuck with state of mind that ATI driver horrible. Almost like Mac fanboy thinks his machine is vulnerability free.

Either that, or someone who hasn't been updated... He did say ATI can't write drivers worth for shit, and that IS TRUE... AMD completely changed how drivers were handled the moment they bought ATI...
ATI drivers = pure shit
nVidia drivers = used to be awesome, went down
AMD drivers = win!

I love the mac analogy... it is so true.

This forum has doing downwards too , with members like you.

Give a list of ATI driver shitness ?

Ok, so thats two people (solofly and Taltamir) that you have insulted/attacked for having opinions. When are you going to stop this?

 

[chizow]

A few things really popped out at me over some of the leaked info to-date, like the huge performance gain from 177.34 vs. 177.26 drivers. 43FPS vs 30FPS at Very High at 1920x1200 with just an updated driver is fantastic. Even though GT200 isn't truly a whole new architecture, I'm sure the drivers still need to be tweaked a bit to fully benefit from all the extra transistors, bandwidth and buffer. Given GT200 is performing in-line with expectations bodes well in light of potential future driver improvements.

Also noticed OC'ability seems to sit around 670 to 715MHz. There was an OC comparison at 670MHz as well as Asus' TOP model clocked at 670MHz. Zotac's AMP Edition clocked at 715 in Techpowerup's pulled preview which gives a glimpse at the upper threshold and clock scaling. Should be lots of selection as EVGA plans 5 of each for GTX 280 and 260: a stock, 3 OC'd versions (SC, SSC, FTW) and a water-cooled Black Pearl.

GTX 260 seems to be underperforming so far and I read at least 1 spec sheet that showed it was significantly neutered beyond the 1/8th memory controller/ROP and TMU/SP cluster. GTX 260 was listed at 24 ROP and only 56 TMU which is a pretty big hard cut from GTX 280's listed 32 ROP and 128 TMU....
OEM GTX 280 and 260 specsheet.

So far the leaked benches look really good if you want performance without multi-GPU. Its pretty clear there's some CPU bottlenecking even at the 16x12, 16x10 and even 19x12 resolutions now which is pretty crazy considering most of the reviewers are using 4GHz C2D/Qs. A good example is the VR-Zone Preview where ET: QW results are nearly identical at 1680x1050 and 1920x1200. The gains in WiC however, are nothing short of amazing compared to previous single-GPU solutions. I only get ~25FPS on High, which is still playable but an average of 60FPS in that game would be amazing.

Still, even in games where the GTX 280 isn't scaling perfectly to 2x 9800GTX or a 9800GX2, its still well beyond playable framerates and shows less performance penalty with AA and AF, all without the negatives of SLi or CF. There's no point in arguing if its worth it or not, the high-end, especially the single-GPU high-end will always carry such a premium. If you wanted value and performance you could've had it with the 8800GT or 8800GTS or 9600GT or any of the other myriad G92 parts that brought G80 performance to the masses at a fraction of the cost. This time around it looks like the RV770 will bring similar value and performance, but its still not going to challenge GTX 280 on the high-end as a single-GPU solution.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I think what people are forgetting is that this (price) is considered normal. We may have been lucky enough to go through a generation of cheap hardware (let it be GPUs, CPUs), but i think the industry is moving on from that this time around (something thats normal as well). There were the sort of prices when the 7900GTX, X1900XTX and the likes were released at. (Add in 6800Ultra/X800XTPE too). Normally people who are more concerned about their wallet taking a big hit would opt to buy the second fastest, and in this case the GTX260. (taking a trip back to memory lane -> 6800GT, 7800GT, X1900XT, 8800GTS640 etc)

The good thing about IT is that price go down as we move foward... not up.

GT200 price is probably high because of yield problems. Anyways , GT280 should have be priced at $499 which is what 7800GTX was priced when it was released.

Tuteja, prices have not gone down, like everything else, they've gone up.

The 7800GTX released at $600:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451

The GeForce 7800 GTX will cost a solid $600.

High end motherboards cost more than they ever have (over $400) high end CPUs cost more than they ever have (over $1400) and high end RAM costs more than it ever has (over $600)

The top end of anything costs more, and the amount of performance increase this card will give over any other single GPU card more than justifies the price. (check out the difference in using the stuff above and parts that cost half as much for proof of that)

The Geforce 2 Ultra was over $500 8.5 years ago, the top end card today won't cost the same

More than ever is an overstatement.

More than in recent history. Yes.

RDRAM ring a bell?
$2000 Intel Processors ring a bell?

I stand corrected. As an AMD fan, I never bought the RDRAM and don't remember the 2K processor. (guessing an EE or Xeon)

In any case, I have to agree, but still think high end graphics have gotten more costly for the most part. Only the die shrinks launch at lower prices.

 

[emilyek]

GTX280, bought retail in HK for $660 (supposedly 4850 was also available), 'review' in link on these forums:

http://affinityaoc.co.cc/forum...b7c034938e47eaf7de#p62