NVIDIA SoundStorm

[Ichinisan]

Is there a technically-inclined writer here who cares to write a petition (www.petitiononline.com) for NVIDIA to make a stand-alone PCI SoundStorm card? If we spread awareness on technical message boards, I'm sure that there would be enough signatures (and potential buyers) to interest NVIDIA.

Most HTPC builders *need* DTS/Dolby output...and SS is the only solution that does not require a proprietary (read: "Creative-brand") digital speaker system.

AMD boards will rock. P4 boards will rock. The world will rock.

 

[Megatomic]

We have tried this a couple of times over at nForcersHQ forums to no avail. NVidia wants to dump SoundStorm.

 

[Schadenfroh]

nvidia would own if they did, but they would have to NOT use those realtek POS, but im happy with my audigy 2 zs

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Most HTPC builders *need* DTS/Dolby output...and SS is the only solution that does not require a proprietary (read: "Creative-brand") speaker system.

And Soundstorm is not important for HTPC, since most HT material have pre-encoded DD/DTS tracks, which can be passed by any soundcard with a digital output. Soundstorm might have had use for XBox to enable surround audio for games, but for computers where few gamers connect their computers to HT systems and soundcards like the Audigy 2 already have excellent sound quality that match many HT receivers, SS is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[coolred]

With the success of soundstorm boards, I would find it hard to believe that nVidia isn't already considering/doing this. Sure they may not tell you about it, but they may still be working on it. Last I heard the reason soundstorm didn't make it onto nForce 3 was a mixup in communications. I don't know if I believe that. I believe they are working on this and will then obviously want to charge extra for it, rather then include it on their chipsets for little extra cost.

 

[flashbacck]

have you tried the recent AC3filter releases? They have software DD encoding. Uses more CPU of course, but it's an alternative.

 

[Socio]

It has been rumored about that the next Creative Audio card Audigy3 will have a built in encoder similar to the SoundStorm if and whan they do you can bet Nvidia will release it's own stand alone PCI based version.

 

[Ichinisan]

Originally posted by: Socio
It has been rumored about that the next Creative Audio card Audigy3 will have a built in encoder similar to the SoundStorm if and whan they do you can bet Nvidia will release it's own stand alone PCI based version.

Good, because I *hate* Creative's bloat-ware...

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Most HTPC builders *need* DTS/Dolby output...and SS is the only solution that does not require a proprietary (read: "Creative-brand") speaker system.

And Soundstorm is not important for HTPC, since most HT material have pre-encoded DD/DTS tracks, which can be passed by any soundcard with a digital output. Soundstorm might have had use for XBox to enable surround audio for games, but for computers where few gamers connect their computers to HT systems and soundcards like the Audigy 2 already have excellent sound quality that match many HT receivers, SS is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

The reason most HTPC users like Soundstorm is that it will encode ALL of the PCs audio streams into DD, so CDs/MP3s/DivX can be sent to the receiver in AC3 instead of being output in analog form. This is especially useful if you are using your PC as a PVR box and use it to playback recorded television on a regular basis.

Plus, Audigy 2 cards lack a S/PDIF output unless you buy a platinum series card - and then even with those the S/PDIF connector is on the break-out box/live drive, which is not an ideal location for most HTPC rigs (especially if you are using a SFF box for your HTPC that has only a single 5.25 bay and you don't want an audio breakout box adding to the clutter around your Home Theater). I can only hope that Creative eventually gets a clue and creates an "Audigy HT" card that can do AC3 DD encoding and includes digital coax and optical outs on the card itself so they can take advantage of the HTPC market, but they seem slow to acknowledge the needs of the HTPC enthusiast. Otherwise the market is wide open for nVidia or someone else to create a card that caters to the needs of that market.

 

[viivo]

Creative doesn't have to do anything or cater to anybody as long as they have the "newest, latest, most compatible!" card, unless Turtle Beach gets off its ass and makes a successor to the Santa Cruz or some other rival comes along (Der, like the SoundStorm.)

 

[Ichinisan]

We need competition!

Question:
Does SoundStorm convert 3D positional audio (DirectX or EAX?) to Dolby/DTS 5.1?

 

[aug1516]

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
We need competition!

Question:
Does SoundStorm convert 3D positional audio (DirectX or EAX?) to Dolby/DTS 5.1?

Good question. I know that most sound cards do not pass any 3d API info via the digitial outputs but the Nforce is different and may actually do this.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: batmanuel
The reason most HTPC users like Soundstorm is that it will encode ALL of the PCs audio streams into DD, so CDs/MP3s/DivX can be sent to the receiver in AC3 instead of being output in analog form. This is especially useful if you are using your PC as a PVR box and use it to playback recorded television on a regular basis.

Why would you want to worsen your audio quality by compressing two channel audio such as CDs/MP3s/non AC3 DivX into lossy DD when you can simply send them uncompressed using a SPDIF output?

Plus, Audigy 2 cards lack a S/PDIF output unless you buy a platinum series card -

Every A2 and A1 has a digital output which using a minijack to RCA cable or adapter can be connected to the digital coaxial input on a HT receiver.

 

[Ichinisan]

SS outputs via SPDIF coaxial *or* optical...

I tried using the "digital" RCA mini jack from my friend's Audigy(1) with his Yamaha 4.1 system and got nothing because it was COMPLETELY PROPRIETARY!

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
SS outputs via SPDIF coaxial *or* optical...

So?

I tried using the "digital" RCA mini jack from my friend's Audigy(1) with his Yamaha 4.1 system and got nothing because it was COMPLETELY PROPRIETARY!

Or maybe you didn't configure it correctly. I've used a SB Live value's digital output to connect a HT receiver and got 2 channel PCM audio and DD/DTS passthrough to work.

 

[Ichinisan]

It was configured properly. The speakers would not allow you to switch to digital mode because they couldn't find the signal, even though Creative's proprietary software was switched to "digital only". It was not acceptable to run a *long* optical cable from the Audigy Drive on the front. After further research (Audigy instructions), I found out that the digital non-optical signal from the Audigy is proprietary (only for Creative Inspire speakers).

 

[Accord99]

Sounds like speakers or cable problems to me. The only proprietary nature of Creative's system is that they enable 5.1 channels of uncompressed digital audio over a single cable, which nobody in the audio industry had bother to do until recently. Even for non-Creative speakers, the first two channels are still usable.

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
It was configured properly. The speakers would not allow you to switch to digital mode because they couldn't find the signal, even though Creative's proprietary software was switched to "digital only". It was not acceptable to run a *long* optical cable from the Audigy Drive on the front. After further research (Audigy instructions), I found out that the digital non-optical signal from the Audigy is proprietary (only for Creative Inspire speakers).

Also, based what I've read from this forum the digital output from the card's miniplug jack is way out of spec with standard digital coax voltages (5V to 12V compared to 0.5V), since this connection was originally designed to connect the Audigy to Creative surround sound systems. The posters there even mentions some Yamaha receivers being damaged by trying to connect Audigy cards to them. These reports may not be true, but if they are it pretty much rules out the Audigy as a good HTPC card.

 

[Accord99]

It wasn't measured. The same thread has several users who had no problems at all using the digital output, as have I. Nor have there been mention of receivers burning out on a forum like 3dsoundsurge.com.

 

[mechBgon]

Bigger picture: nVidia's APU isn't a PCI part, it's always lived on the southbridge natively. Making a PCI card out of it might not be as straightforward as it sounds.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Bigger picture: nVidia's APU isn't a PCI part, it's always lived on the southbridge natively. Making a PCI card out of it might not be as straightforward as it sounds.

Excellent point. I also wonder how much it would hogthe PCI bus if it was in a traditional PCI card format vs being mapped to the Hypertransport connection it's on now. I imagine real time DD encoding might eat some bandwidth...

 

[Boogak]

I was using a miniplug to RCA adapter cable with my venerable Soundblaster Live non-5.1 version to connect to my Denon receiver a few years ago so it's definitely possible to pass a standard digital signal from Creative Lab soundcards. My Audigy2 manual also shows it as being possible although I haven't tried it yet.

I switched my HTPC from a Athlon XP 3200+/NF7-S w/ Soundstorm to an P4 3ghz/IS7-E because I need a beefier processor for FFDShow processing on my DVDs. I used the IS7-E's onboard optical SPDIF out and have no problems with it. Sure I don't get a DD 5.1 signal in general Windows environment like I did with Soundstorm, but when watching DVD movies I do and that's the only time I really need it.

 

[flashbacck]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Why would you want to worsen your audio quality by compressing two channel audio such as CDs/MP3s/non AC3 DivX into lossy DD when you can simply send them uncompressed using a SPDIF output?

Mostly for the convenience of having 1 cable. Also, all your audio streams will be upmixed to 5.1, whether you're watching TV, listening to mp3's or whatever.

As for the quality loss, most people can't tell anyway.

 

[flashbacck]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Bigger picture: nVidia's APU isn't a PCI part, it's always lived on the southbridge natively. Making a PCI card out of it might not be as straightforward as it sounds.

Excellent point. I also wonder how much it would hogthe PCI bus if it was in a traditional PCI card format vs being mapped to the Hypertransport connection it's on now. I imagine real time DD encoding might eat some bandwidth...

The DD encoding should be done on the PCI card. If it was done that way, it'd take the same bandwidth as a regular PCI soundcard

 

[Ichinisan]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Bigger picture: nVidia's APU isn't a PCI part, it's always lived on the southbridge natively. Making a PCI card out of it might not be as straightforward as it sounds.

Excellent point. I also wonder how much it would hogthe PCI bus if it was in a traditional PCI card format vs being mapped to the Hypertransport connection it's on now. I imagine real time DD encoding might eat some bandwidth...

No more that the Audigy2 hardware solution...

Originally posted by: Boogak
I was using a miniplug to RCA adapter cable with my venerable Soundblaster Live non-5.1 version to connect to my Denon receiver a few years ago so it's definitely possible to pass a standard digital signal from Creative Lab soundcards. My Audigy2 manual also shows it as being possible although I haven't tried it yet.

Yeah, 2.1 only.