nVidia's Problems

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Crapgame
The FX wasnt a great card for its time, almost as bad as the Radeon 7500 was in it's time.

i think you're full of yourself there, crap.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
the other point was the screenshot on bungie's website everyone keeps referring is not what you see the ati render (almost looks like a mirror, or reflected light as opposed to refracted)

it is refracted light man, like i said before you can see the trail leading up though the body, if it was reflecting all you would see is the grass and rock which is behind the camara. see here and then note how you can see that trail though him here.. the cloaking does kinda brighten the refraction up a bit in their's but i'd imagine they just tweeked the shader for dramatic effect in the screenshot.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

TheSnowman lol, i got an xbox with halo the christmas it came out as well so you'll have to forfit that argument.

I'm going to have to say you are completely full of sh!t on this one.

i hope you arnt going to try and argue that one of the games on this reciptwasn't halo. :disgust:

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

TheSnowman seriously, something is wrong with your xbox, your drivers or your eyes becuase bungie obviously wanted it to look like this or they woudln't have put the pic on their site, and that is how it looks on both the xbox and ati's dx9 cards as well.

Bungie had nothing to do with the ATi effect, that was GearBox, it looks absolutely nothing like the effect on the XBox. Something wrong with the drivers for my XBox? Yeah, you've spent a lot of time with the Box.

sure they had something to do with the effect, they were the ones that made the design dicission to use it and gearbox mearly ported it to the pc. as for the drivers comment; i was talking about your radeon which would have been clearly obvious to you if you were not such an argumentative prick.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

TheSnowman also again i ask; what is this "anti cheat application I have to get around their screw up" you mention?

3DAnalyzer.

i had a feeling you were full of crap when you claimed you were useing an anti-cheat application, thanks for confirming that you were just plaing with the device id though 3danalyze because your just an nvidia fanboy that you have to fake your own computer into thinking its not running a radeon.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

TheSnowman but in that screenshot, which i should point out again is an offical shot from bungie on their own website

Render!=Screenshot

it is a screenshot, not a render! notice it is in their screenshots section not in their renders section..

 

[Jeff7181]

I'm curious why this flame war has been stickied... everyone's just quoting and linking and flaming... may as well just all drop your pants and break out the ruler.

 

[CaiNaM]

it is refracted light man, like i said before you can see the trail leading up though the body, if it was reflecting all you would see is the grass and rock which is behind the camara. see here and then note how you can see that trail though him here.. the cloaking does kinda brighten the refraction up a bit in their's but i'd imagine they just tweeked the shader for dramatic effect in the screenshot.

i didn't say it was reflected, rather it looked reflected. my entire point is that what you see in that screenshot of the char w/ camo is NOT what you see in game using an ati card. i posted screenshots to back up my point. they do NOT look like the screenie on bungie's site.

so you're arguing a moot point.

 

[BenSkywalker]

i hope you arnt going to try and argue that one of the games on this reciptwasn't halo.

Then why don't you start the game up and look and see that you are wrong.

sure they had something to do with the effect, they were the ones that made the design dicission to use it and gearbox mearly ported it to the pc. as for the drivers comment; i was talking about your radeon which would have been clearly obvious to you if you were not such an argumentative prick.

Bungie didn't use the effect.

i had a feeling you were full of crap when you claimed you were useing an anti-cheat application, thanks for confirming that you were just plaing with the device id though 3danalyze because your just an nvidia fanboy that you have to fake your own computer into thinking its not running a radeon.

Really? Open up 3DAnalyzer and turn on the anti detect for shaders(the same feature used to break nV's shader optimizations in 3DM2K3) and see what results you get in Halo. No need to change device IDs, just enable the anti cheat script. Changing device IDs also works, but the anti cheat script is easier to enable.

it is a screenshot, not a render! notice it is in their screenshots section not in their renders section..

For all those sections of the game played in third person.... like..... uhhhh..... could you please point me to where you play in third person in Halo? Since this is in game and you have actually played both versions. I have played through both ports numerous times and I can't find this third person segment that "in game" screenshot came from.

CaiNaM-

yea Ben, i do.. need to find the damn halo disk tho lol..

Dig it up and check it out, it's the same as nV's.

hey, did you say you CAN get an nv card to render it the same as ati?

Yep, use 3DAnalyzer and change the device ID to match ATi's. There has been quite a bit of discussion about it over at GB's forums. To get ATi to render like nV just use the anti cheat script for shaders.

 

[kylebisme]

why don't start the game up and look and see that you are wrong, eh Ben? i sold my copy a few months back sense it runs better on my pc, but just because i'm so tierd of you spreading your missinformation around i went and rented it so i can show everyone that the the active cammo on the xbox is the same refractive effect as on ati hardware. also, 3danalyze (there is no "r" on the end) does not have an "anti cheat script", it has an anti-detect mode but you said yourself that detection isn't cheating. i don't understand how you even though you could get away with such a bold faced lies, or why you are doing it for that matter. :disgust:


as for how you play halo in third person, i'm sure you would need a developer build for that. but useing a developer build of the game doesn't make it any less a screenshot.

 

[BenSkywalker]

the active cammo on the xbox is the same refractive effect as on ati hardware.

So why doesn't the image you posted show that? All I see is the shimmering effect you get with movement, nothing like the day glow look of ATi.

also, 3danalyze (there is no "r" on the end) does not have an "anti cheat script", it has an anti-detect mode but you said yourself that detection isn't cheating.

I've also already stated in this thread the problem with Halo is GearBox's, not ATi's. In this particular instance it works as an anti cheat script as it breaks the highlight effect of the R3x0 parts.

 

[SneakyStuff]

I noticed that, the active camo looks a lot better on ATI cards, than nVidia cards, I went to my cousins for the weekend and played halo on his 9500 pro, and when I saw the difference in some aspects of the game, active camo in particular, I was a little jealous

 

[kylebisme]

no it is the refreactive effect your get with active cammo, no one was moveing when i took that pic.

to make it more clear, here is CaiNaM's ati shot and a at the same location my xbox shot. there is no "day glow look" to either shot, simply refraction.


also i want to point out the compleate bs of this:

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

NV is rendering the effect the same way it is on the XBox.

with nvidia, you don't get any refrection and you can still make out what color armor the guy is wearing, this is nothing like what is seen on the xbox.

 

[BenSkywalker]

with nvidia, you don't get any refrection and you can still make out what color armor the guy is wearing, this is nothing like what is seen on the xbox.

You get refraction with the nV render, you just can't see it that well in CaiNaM's shots. Try it yourself with 3DA. And BTW there is certainly a glowing type effect with the ATi active camo(it is due to refraction, but it ends up amplifying the light). You can easily spot someone from a good distance standing perfectly still with ATi's active camo, you can't with nV's.

 

[kylebisme]

tried setting my device id to an fx5900u, no refreaction at all and you can still see what color armor they have on; it looks just like in CaiNaM's shots. also tried your supposed "anti-cheat" anti-detect shader option, it does nothing to change the active cammo.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I'm going to have to get some server space and upload screenshots to settle this.

 

[kylebisme]

you are welcome to email them to the addy in my profile and i will upload and post them.

 

[PCTweaker5]

About that fog issue in MOH with Nvidia cards, with my 9800 Pro I got fog in NFSU when it wasnt even supposed to be there, and the game often wants to go into turbo mode in short instances, they feel like skips but they are actually speed ups and thats with all the drivers Ive tested and game patches. Im not totally blaming this on ATI but I believe they take some part in it seeing as how thats never happened with my other cards. FLAME ME CMON!!!

 

[kylebisme]

lol, i don't see any reason for anyone to flame you; but you might want to look into that because i havn't seen anyone else complaining of such issues.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I'm going to have to get some server space and upload screenshots to settle this.

here, i'll save you the trouble

these will give everyone a better idea of the effects we are talking about. you will need divx codec installed to view these:

NV Halo "camoflage" render

ATI Halo "camoflage" render

 

[chsh1ca]

Yup, Snowman is right, the ATI card in the video provided by CaiNaM is rendering it identically to the XBOX (as the piccy linked above show), but the NV render is more like just setting the transparency of the entire model to about 95%, no refraction at all.

The dayglow effect you mentioned appears to be coming from the water or objects behind the refraction, NOT from the refraction itself, which is consistent with the play I've seen on an XBOX.

EDIT: Here's a direct side by side comparison of two frames from the vids linked above by CaiNaM. The two cloaked figures are standing in about the same place in relation to the gun. It would seem that in online play, playing Halo on an NV card is somewhat of a handicap, since it is certainly easier to see the ATI rendered cloak.

Comparison

 

[CaiNaM]

ohh..nice comparison

 

[CaiNaM]

ben, where rrrrrrr uuuuuuuu?

 

[BFG10K]

It's little surprise that nVidia's method of rendering the cloak also happens to require the least amount of work.

 

[kylebisme]

the thing is though, it is gearbox that decided to render the cloak differently on ati and nvidia hardware. you can see this by changing the device id for the card with 3danalyse, whereby you can make ati render like nvidia and vice versa. when i first heard about nvidia owners doing this to get the proper effect on their cards i assumed that gearbox simply couldn't get it to work right because many of the people doing this trick all complained about flashing text; however, i have come to find that i always get flashing text on my radeon when running halo though 3danalyse regardless if i use any modification settings or not. so it appears the flashing text is simply an issue with 3danalyze and not related to why fx cards do not display the proper effect. so it is not as if nvidia is cheating to do it the fast way, gearbox is making the call there. maybe it is because other problems occur when fx cards try to do the proper active cammo, but i can't say for sure either way.

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
ben, where rrrrrrr uuuuuuuu?

lol, i am interested in seeing his responce as well.

 

[BFG10K]

There must be a good reason for Gearbox to not request the proper cloaking effect from nVidia cards. I thought I remember reading something about nVidia driver limitations at that time but that could just be speculation on someone's part.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
the thing is though, it is gearbox that decided to render the cloak differently on ati and nvidia hardware. you can see this by changing the device id for the card with 3danalyse, whereby you can make ati render like nvidia and vice versa. when i first heard about nvidia owners doing this to get the proper effect on their cards i assumed that gearbox simply couldn't get it to work right because many of the people doing this trick all complained about flashing text; however, i have come to find that i always get flashing text on my radeon when running halo though 3danalyse regardless if i use any modification settings or not. so it appears the flashing text is simply an issue with 3danalyze and not related to why fx cards do not display the proper effect. so it is not as if nvidia is cheating to do it the fast way, gearbox is making the call there. maybe it is because other problems occur when fx cards try to do the proper active cammo, but i can't say for sure either way.

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
ben, where rrrrrrr uuuuuuuu?

lol, i am interested in seeing his responce as well.

wow! we agree on something

 

[BenSkywalker]

Hey CaiNaM, could you by chance do the same with the XBox now?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Hey CaiNaM, could you by chance do the same with the XBox now?

i'm not sure how to accomplish that tho.. if i could, i'd be happy to...