#OccupyWallstreet

[Ninjahedge]

And they also Occupied a port, nominally because a firm on Wall Street owns a controlling interest in ONE of twenty-three shippers there. With that level of connection there is literally no part of capitalism they cannot direct their useful idiots to attack under the guise of attacking Wall Street.

You are again missing the point.

For some reason you think a movement needs one set of leaders and one message and can be put in a neat little box and that is that. You flip flop on things. First you site that a small faction does something bad, and you blame the entire movement, but then you site another action and say that because they did X they could not be for Y, even when they still DID Y...

The main problem here is not that you disagree with what some of the messages are, but that you are painting with too big a brush.

Criticism, when done right, works for the betterment of all. Criticism done worng is just plain insulting.

 

[cybrsage]

She'd do a hell of a lot better if she went out and looked for a job instead of joined the #Occupy protest movement. So would any of the other people that had been laid off.

Looking for a job is work. Sitting around and not bathing is easier.

 

[palehorse]

Not really PH....

The only thing people have to do here is look at the different factions and try to find what they can support, rather than decry the whole movement for a factions beliefs.

You get much more when you steer a boat to the port you want rather than just trying to sink it.

The problem is that those in any sort of position to drive the whole ship are themselves part of the anarchist lunatic fringe -- hence the recent OWS efforts to occupy private property, interrupt business, and generally become a nuisance.

OWS can't really be taken seriously until you rid yourself of said cancer, which will be very difficult given their influence and high-level involvement in your General Assemblies.

Get rid of Lasn and those like him, or you're screwed...

 

[Ninjahedge]

I partially disagree on that. The only thing they need to be careful of is NOT to be bound by his positions.

If the OWS is still seen as many different factions with one common (general) purpose, it will still work.

The cries from opponents (and news agencies, ironically enough) for collusion and cohesion will be their undoing.

How to you quantify all the various problems today into a simple bullet list you can rattle off in a 2 minute prime-time story?

 

[michal1980]

I partially disagree on that. The only thing they need to be careful of is NOT to be bound by his positions.

If the OWS is still seen as many different factions with one common (general) purpose, it will still work.

The cries from opponents (and news agencies, ironically enough) for collusion and cohesion will be their undoing.

How to you quantify all the various problems today into a simple bullet list you can rattle off in a 2 minute prime-time story?

There isn't a common purpose.

I know you want to believe there is, but its not there.

Or are you trying to repeat the lie enough times is hopes that everyone will believe it.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Yes there is Michael.

It is to stop the disparity in wealth propagated by the salary gap which is further augmented by lobby and corporate influence legislation.

Pretty simple.

 

[palehorse]

How to you quantify all the various problems today into a simple bullet list you can rattle off in a 2 minute prime-time story?

Just like any other project: you prioritize and then pick one place to start. You then dedicate your effort to accomplish that one thing.

IOW, when you're trying to effect change, start small -- one simple message, one simple goal. Do this over and over until the small changes snowball into something bigger...

 

[Ninjahedge]

You can't.

You cannot describe the human body in any important way in 2 minutes (medically). Our economic system is not quite as complex, but thinking you can just attack in our 140 character or less world is not exactly a valid assessment.

That is what happened in the past, and failed. You challenge one or two main issues, the others just sidestep and fill in the gap behind it.

 

[palehorse]

You can't.

You cannot describe the human body in any important way in 2 minutes (medically). Our economic system is not quite as complex, but thinking you can just attack in our 140 character or less world is not exactly a valid assessment.

That is what happened in the past, and failed. You challenge one or two main issues, the others just sidestep and fill in the gap behind it.

Well, like I said, if you don't unite behind one simple message, you're screwed.

ie. "end the war"

ie. "equal rights for blacks"

orrr.... "remove all lobbyist, PAC, and other SIG money from politics."

The task doesn't need to be simple, but the message and focus of the movement does...

 

[Ninjahedge]

I know what you are saying. In this world, if you want attention, you have to market your cause and have a catchy slogan.

I am just hoping that this one relies more on steady support rather than a catchy jingle.

 

[palehorse]

I know what you are saying. In this world, if you want attention, you have to market your cause and have a catchy slogan.

I am just hoping that this one relies more on steady support rather than a catchy jingle.

Correction: you can still garner plenty of attention by being an unorganized nuisance; however, I don't think that's the kind of attention most of the supporters need or want -- and it's certainly not what the vast majority of U.S. citizens need or want.

You must get rid of the cancer that lives near the very center of your movement, my friend.

A simple single message like "End Government Corruption Now!" would do wonders, especially alongside a very simple, clear, and reasonable (read: centrist) 2 or 3 item agenda.

Example:

Item 1: Eliminate private monetary and material contributions to nationally elected or appointed officials (PACs, Unions, Lobbyists, other SIGs); allocate public funds for elections to be equally distributed amongst "qualified" candidates (those who obtain X number of endorsement signatures, those chosen in official primaries, etc)

Item 2: Severely punish any public official or private person/entity that violates Item #1 -- lengthy prison terms, high fines, and banishment from national service -- even for first-time offenders! In the case of businesses, you could remove/suspend their licenses to operate. (their own employees would probably lynch them if that happens! )

Item 3: Overturn United Citizens decision, and legislatively limit corporate rights.

Blah blah etc etc... I think you and most OWS supporters would be pleasantly surprised by the secondary and tertiary effects of just those three items. (Many of your tangent issues would solve themselves as a result of the above three fixes!)

PS: I'm willing and available to support, or even lead, any movement that seeks just those three things... lol

 

[cybrsage]

You need to add a fourth item.

Item 4: Make unions no longer not for profit and therefor immune to taxes. They are obviously political in nature and should have to pay taxes. In this way, they would be like a church.

 

[actuarial]

You need to add a fourth item.

Item 4: Make unions no longer not for profit and therefor immune to taxes. They are obviously political in nature and should have to pay taxes. In this way, they would be like a church.

How do you tax something that doesn't have profits?

 

[IGBT]

so how many of these clowns are paid by the DNC/SEIU/?? to squat for the cameras??

 

[Londo_Jowo]

so how many of these clowns are paid by the DNC/SEIU/?? to squat for the cameras??

You would be surprised what people will do for an iPhone, iPad, and a free lunch.

 

[palehorse]

You need to add a fourth item.

Item 4: Make unions no longer not for profit and therefor immune to taxes. They are obviously political in nature and should have to pay taxes. In this way, they would be like a church.

Ummm no.

While I'm no fan of the Union tax exemptions myself, that issue isn't even in my top 10.

Their political lobbying, however, does certainly fall under Item #1 above.

My entire point was to keep the agenda short and simple -- which means no added political landmines that would deter initial support on both sides of the political spectrum.

I think it's safe to say that removing private money from elections and lobbying would be supported by a vast majority of the citizenry, regardless of where anyone lies on the political spectrum.

Said money -- and subsequent undo influence -- is the leading cause of ALL corruption in our system...

 

[spidey07]

Santa crashes occupiers camp. Brings gifts!

http://www.kval.com/news/local/Santa-crashes-Occupy-Eugene-camp-135701078.html

"At first when they saw Santa, I think they were happy to see gifts," said Drew Tydeman from the Donkey Show, "but when they found out it was soap, they weren't as excited.

"He was just handing out the soaps, and we did have some flea and tick shampoo in case you have a dog or you're having a problem yourself," he said. "It's like District 9 down there."

 

[cybrsage]

How do you tax something that doesn't have profits?

The same way you tax business that don't have profits.

You simply level the playing field. Since they are listed as not for profit, they do not have to play games with their money at all. All their "profits" can be spent buying politicians and therefor do not count as profits any longer.

 

[cybrsage]

Ummm no.

While I'm no fan of the Union tax exemptions myself, that issue isn't even in my top 10.

Their political lobbying, however, does certainly fall under Item #1 above.

If you treated them like a church they could either keep their tax free status and become non-political (which meets your number 1), or they lose their tax free status and become just like corps...then your number 1 will kick in.

 

[michal1980]

Lets see looking at the OWS website, I fail to see this unified message.

Instead I see:

protesting health care

protesting for illegal law braker rights

hunger strike because they think washington DC has no represtantion

A take back the commons march that has to tell the idiots how to dress.


Yup, they are figting the evil wall street machine.

 

[Bowfinger]

Lets see looking at the OWS website, I fail to see this unified message.

Instead I see:

protesting health care

protesting for illegal law braker rights

hunger strike because they think washington DC has no represtantion

A take back the commons march that has to tell the idiots how to dress.


Yup, they are figting the evil wall street machine.

That's because you're not sharp enough to differentiate between the "News" section with its ever-changing assortment of updates and recent event, and the fixed frame around it that tells what OWS is about. Right on the homepage, upper right:

Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

This is exactly what we've been showing you over and over -- their main focus is greed and corruption. Of course you absolutely cannot acknowledge that because it would mean admitting you enthusiastically support greed and corruption. Therefore instead you parrot the talking points -- "They have no message" -- and you indulge wild conspiracy theories based on your emotional conviction that you know what they're really all about.

 

[dwell]

By "leaderless" they mean led by Kalle Lasn and Micah White and by "We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%" they mean they are going to use that ambiguous quip to perform a bunch of attention-whoring stunts without considering who it affects or who they are actually protesting. The port fiasco, for example.

And to remotely associate the first world problems stunt that is OWS with Arab Spring is an insult to everyone who died fighting actual fascism and oppression in the Middle East.

 

[cybrsage]

Today's Dilbert is about OWS. I think he hit the mentality of the protestors perfectly:

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-22/

 

[airdata]

Today's Dilbert is about OWS. I think he hit the mentality of the protestors perfectly:

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-22/

I don't think you got their point about the cartoon.

By "leaderless" they mean led by Kalle Lasn and Micah White and by "We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%" they mean they are going to use that ambiguous quip to perform a bunch of attention-whoring stunts without considering who it affects or who they are actually protesting. The port fiasco, for example.

And to remotely associate the first world problems stunt that is OWS with Arab Spring is an insult to everyone who died fighting actual fascism and oppression in the Middle East.

I think you're a bit misguided. I don't really agree with any of the port stuff. I also think referring to this Lasn guy as the leader is kind of silly. I'd be willing to bet that 8 out of 10 people at ows protests have never heard of him. There's also alot of people who only came out after all of the police brutality started going on.

But regardless of who this Lasn guy is, the base of what is being protested is simply undeniable. You can criticize the people protesting all you want... But when the american tax payer has to bail out too big to fail banks and sell their children and their childrens children into debt slavery, something has to be done. And that something isn't to give billions of dollars in bonuses to the criminals who defrauded the system and crashed it in the first place.

Look at the GOP presidential candidates. People are actually considering voting for a guy who left government to work for one of the biggest players in this whole defrauding of america.. and we're going to let him into the highest office of our nation? Is that a joke?

 

[cybrsage]

I did, the OWS protestors are stupid enough to think they are actually winning something while merely being puppets.