Originally posted by: geecee
OK. Your demographics on Yankee fans are ridiculous. I'm sure there are just tens of millions of displaced NYers across the country. :roll: Errr...no. Relatives of NYers love the Yankees too? Ha! My relatives in the who live in NY aren't even all Yankee fans (a third are Mets fans). My relatives in Cleveland are Indians fans and my cousins in Austin are Rangers fans and so on...I have NO idea where you are going with that one. Asians are Yankee fans because of Matsui? Now you're just being stereotypical and stupid. What about Kaz Matsui on the Mets and Ichiro in Seattle? What about those millions of Korean fans rooting for the Red Sox because Byung-Hyun Kim is there? Wait, that's ridiculous you say? Yes, that's my point.
Also, the points that someone else made here about the disparity in the size of the ballparks is a good one. Yankee Stadium seats roughly 1 1/2 times as many as Fenway. Much harder to sell out. Factor in that there is another baseball team in NY makes it all the more understandable. Not to mention that NYC is so spread out, it makes it difficult for many in the outer boroughs to make it to the weeknight games and still be able to get home and get some sleep before work the next morning. Lastly, the Yankees have always been a big draw on the road (before and after ARod) if for no other reason than the local fans want to see their home team beat up on the Yanks! I won't deny that having the highest payroll in baseball and a star-studded lineup also has something to do with that.
Don't generalize on the quality of fans. Boston has rabid (and long suffering) baseball fans, no doubt. New York fans (Mets and Yankees) are just as passionate about their teams. Trying to gauge whose fans are better is an argument best left to grade school kids.
EDIT: BTW, the 17 million population number you use is the metro area NYC number (it's actually more like 21 million acording to the 2000 census). Includes nearby surrounding areas - i.e. Connecticut, New Jersey and other NY state (non-city) residents. Actual NYC population is 8.5 million or so. If you want to use the ~580K population figure for Boston, then you should be comparing that to the 8.5 million figure for NYC. Metro area Boston population in ~5.8 million according to 2000 census. That's the number you should use to compare to the 17 million population figure you quote for NYC. Regardless, this is just semantics.
Yes, I thought I was quoting figures for NYC vs Boston pop alone, not metro. Thanks for the additional research. Even so, 8 mil is still almost 16X the population of Boston, assuming that half of NYC are Mets fans, it's still 8X the fan base of Boston's.
No, my explanation for NY's high attendance on the road is not inaccurate. The NYC Metro area + New York = over 10% of the United State's population (assuming that our country has roughly 275 mil, it may be slightly higher). This is only in any one given point in time, many people move out and others will move into the area, so I'm not wrong when I say that this a big reason NY attracts on the road with relatives (relatives meaning ones who have actually lived in the NYC metro area, not
any relatives)... Also the Asian (particulary Japanese) explanation is not off. Your comparison of BK Kim to Matsui is nothing short of ridiculous, Matsui was and still is a bigger star in Japan than Ichiro. BK Kim would be lucky to sign an autograph in Korea, there is a huge difference. You're wrong if you don't think that Matsui/Ichiro have converted many non baseball fans, my mom is Japanese and now likes to watch Seattle and New York because of the two, and wanted to know about their biographies. Japanese superstars have added draw to teams like the Yankees and get new fans into the sport, for instance, did you see all of the Asian (Japanese I believe) advertisements in the outfield and behind homeplate at Yankee stadium during ALCS this week? That is a good indicator that yes, many Japanese fans are viewing not only from Japan, but in the US as well.
I still think that your explanation for NYY not selling out every game is rather weak, especially with 8X more fans than Boston having to fill up only 1.5 more seats at Yankee Stadium than Fenway. The ratio just doesn't add up! You say:
"Factor in that there is another baseball team in NY makes it all the more understandable. Not to mention that NYC is so spread out, it makes it difficult for many in the outer boroughs to make it to the weeknight games and still be able to get home and get some sleep before work the next morning."
Well, we already took into account the other team in NY by changing the ratio from 16X to 8X (which is more than adequate). NYC being spread out doesn't mean anything, that's just an excuse, if you want to see your team play, you will make the trip. Hell, I drive 2 hours up to Camden Yards just to see the Red Sox play the O's. Also, do you not think that Fenway Faithful have to get up and work in the morning? That makes no sense.
Here's the kicker: If Boston can draw 6.55% of their population (38/580K), then NYY should be able to draw 1.4% of their
fans (56/4000)! And to reiterate, 4 mil is a very low estimate, because I'm sure there are more Yankee fans than Met fans in NYC, I just split the 8 mil down the middle to get a low estimate. That % right there should be enough proof for you, and 1.4% is actually a high estimate Yes there's more to do in NYC at night, but cmon, you should be able to draw
1.4% of your fans on any given night!