****OFFICAL ALCS THREAD****

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bigj3347

Senior member
Sep 19, 2004
458
0
0
I won't argue whether or not NY is a good baseball town, but nothing comes close to the loyal following the Red Sox have from Red Sox Nation. During Super Bowl week last year WEEI, the boston sports station, was talking about ARod, and the whole arms race with the yankees, DURING SUPER BOWL WEEK. That's just unheard of. NY definitely has the most bandwagon fans of all time and all professional franchises. I hate to admit it but my brother is a yankees fan and he's never even been to NY!

The demographics is simply way off, it is stereotypical to state that koreans are fans of the dodgers or red sox just because they have korean players. More often than not, they were already fans before the Choi or Kim arrived on the team. I'm chinese, I'd like to see Yao Ming do well but I still won't cheer for the Rockets when the Rockets come in to town to play the Lakers.
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
Originally posted by: bigj3347
I won't argue whether or not NY is a good baseball town, but nothing comes close to the loyal following the Red Sox have from Red Sox Nation. During Super Bowl week last year WEEI, the boston sports station, was talking about ARod, and the whole arms race with the yankees, DURING SUPER BOWL WEEK. That's just unheard of. NY definitely has the most bandwagon fans of all time and all professional franchises. I hate to admit it but my brother is a yankees fan and he's never even been to NY!

The demographics is simply way off, it is stereotypical to state that koreans are fans of the dodgers or red sox just because they have korean players. More often than not, they were already fans before the Choi or Kim arrived on the team. I'm chinese, I'd like to see Yao Ming do well but I still won't cheer for the Rockets when the Rockets come in to town to play the Lakers.

When does someone need to visit NY to be a fan of a ball club ?

 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: geecee
OK. Your demographics on Yankee fans are ridiculous. I'm sure there are just tens of millions of displaced NYers across the country. :roll: Errr...no. Relatives of NYers love the Yankees too? Ha! My relatives in the who live in NY aren't even all Yankee fans (a third are Mets fans). My relatives in Cleveland are Indians fans and my cousins in Austin are Rangers fans and so on...I have NO idea where you are going with that one. Asians are Yankee fans because of Matsui? Now you're just being stereotypical and stupid. What about Kaz Matsui on the Mets and Ichiro in Seattle? What about those millions of Korean fans rooting for the Red Sox because Byung-Hyun Kim is there? Wait, that's ridiculous you say? Yes, that's my point.

Also, the points that someone else made here about the disparity in the size of the ballparks is a good one. Yankee Stadium seats roughly 1 1/2 times as many as Fenway. Much harder to sell out. Factor in that there is another baseball team in NY makes it all the more understandable. Not to mention that NYC is so spread out, it makes it difficult for many in the outer boroughs to make it to the weeknight games and still be able to get home and get some sleep before work the next morning. Lastly, the Yankees have always been a big draw on the road (before and after ARod) if for no other reason than the local fans want to see their home team beat up on the Yanks! I won't deny that having the highest payroll in baseball and a star-studded lineup also has something to do with that.

Don't generalize on the quality of fans. Boston has rabid (and long suffering) baseball fans, no doubt. New York fans (Mets and Yankees) are just as passionate about their teams. Trying to gauge whose fans are better is an argument best left to grade school kids.

EDIT: BTW, the 17 million population number you use is the metro area NYC number (it's actually more like 21 million acording to the 2000 census). Includes nearby surrounding areas - i.e. Connecticut, New Jersey and other NY state (non-city) residents. Actual NYC population is 8.5 million or so. If you want to use the ~580K population figure for Boston, then you should be comparing that to the 8.5 million figure for NYC. Metro area Boston population in ~5.8 million according to 2000 census. That's the number you should use to compare to the 17 million population figure you quote for NYC. Regardless, this is just semantics.
Yes, I thought I was quoting figures for NYC vs Boston pop alone, not metro. Thanks for the additional research. Even so, 8 mil is still almost 16X the population of Boston, assuming that half of NYC are Mets fans, it's still 8X the fan base of Boston's.

No, my explanation for NY's high attendance on the road is not inaccurate. The NYC Metro area + New York = over 10% of the United State's population (assuming that our country has roughly 275 mil, it may be slightly higher). This is only in any one given point in time, many people move out and others will move into the area, so I'm not wrong when I say that this a big reason NY attracts on the road with relatives (relatives meaning ones who have actually lived in the NYC metro area, not any relatives)... Also the Asian (particulary Japanese) explanation is not off. Your comparison of BK Kim to Matsui is nothing short of ridiculous, Matsui was and still is a bigger star in Japan than Ichiro. BK Kim would be lucky to sign an autograph in Korea, there is a huge difference. You're wrong if you don't think that Matsui/Ichiro have converted many non baseball fans, my mom is Japanese and now likes to watch Seattle and New York because of the two, and wanted to know about their biographies. Japanese superstars have added draw to teams like the Yankees and get new fans into the sport, for instance, did you see all of the Asian (Japanese I believe) advertisements in the outfield and behind homeplate at Yankee stadium during ALCS this week? That is a good indicator that yes, many Japanese fans are viewing not only from Japan, but in the US as well.

I still think that your explanation for NYY not selling out every game is rather weak, especially with 8X more fans than Boston having to fill up only 1.5 more seats at Yankee Stadium than Fenway. The ratio just doesn't add up! You say:

"Factor in that there is another baseball team in NY makes it all the more understandable. Not to mention that NYC is so spread out, it makes it difficult for many in the outer boroughs to make it to the weeknight games and still be able to get home and get some sleep before work the next morning."

Well, we already took into account the other team in NY by changing the ratio from 16X to 8X (which is more than adequate). NYC being spread out doesn't mean anything, that's just an excuse, if you want to see your team play, you will make the trip. Hell, I drive 2 hours up to Camden Yards just to see the Red Sox play the O's. Also, do you not think that Fenway Faithful have to get up and work in the morning? That makes no sense.

Here's the kicker: If Boston can draw 6.55% of their population (38/580K), then NYY should be able to draw 1.4% of their fans (56/4000)! And to reiterate, 4 mil is a very low estimate, because I'm sure there are more Yankee fans than Met fans in NYC, I just split the 8 mil down the middle to get a low estimate. That % right there should be enough proof for you, and 1.4% is actually a high estimate Yes there's more to do in NYC at night, but cmon, you should be able to draw 1.4% of your fans on any given night!



 

TheAudit

Diamond Member
May 2, 2003
4,194
0
0
Speedy?s fandom tirade is getting more than tedious.
You see, his team is not winning on the field so he switches his arguments to the fans now. Oh, we?re better fans. WHOOPDEDAMNDO

85 years and counting.
 

pmoa

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2001
2,623
3
81
first and foremost i am a die hahd red sox fan. I respect the yankees as an organization for putting the best team out there. They are are the best team out there. I just hate the fact that the fans argue over such petty things and yankee fans being pompous and red sox fans are jealous. Heck we dont even care about the pats. the red sox are the passion of Boston. We live and breathe red sox no matter what. You can go to fenway and always see a good crowd. The yankees in the 80's couldnt draw anyone cause they sucked! But that's rare. No matter how bad boston is losing we will support our team. Unlike yankee fans when they start to win, its daddy this daddy that, we are going to win it all for the next 60 years. But in the 80's they were silent. They are the most bandwagon fans in any sports just beating out the LA LAKERS. I mean come on Jack nicholson is a yankees fan too? COME ON. Still this is the best rivalry in all sports. Ill watch this over anything.

pmoa
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: TheAudit
Speedy?s fandom tirade is getting more than tedious.
You see, his team is not winning on the field so he switches his arguments to the fans now. Oh, we?re better fans. WHOOPDEDAMNDO

85 years and counting.
Hey, you said it, not me I was just trying to show you that more Boston fans go to the games, % wise of people who actually live in the city. Factor in the metro area and it's even worse... I know that if I lived in Boston, I would be out there twice a week to catch the Sawx play, if I could even get tix. /mestarts looking at monster.com

Edit: How many NYY fans here have gone to a game this year? Be honest
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: TheAudit
Speedy?s fandom tirade is getting more than tedious.
You see, his team is not winning on the field so he switches his arguments to the fans now. Oh, we?re better fans. WHOOPDEDAMNDO

85 years and counting.
Hey, you said it, not me I was just trying to show you that more Boston fans go to the games, % wise of people who actually live in the city. Factor in the metro area and it's even worse... I know that if I lived in Boston, I would be out there twice a week to catch the Sawx play, if I could even get tix. /mestarts looking at monster.com

Edit: How many NYY fans here have gone to a game this year? Be honest

Bwahahaha, Speed always has to stroke his Bosox shlong with some lame argument. "Yeah your team is winning, but the Red Sox have better fans!!!"
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: TheAudit
Speedy?s fandom tirade is getting more than tedious.
You see, his team is not winning on the field so he switches his arguments to the fans now. Oh, we?re better fans. WHOOPDEDAMNDO

85 years and counting.
Hey, you said it, not me I was just trying to show you that more Boston fans go to the games, % wise of people who actually live in the city. Factor in the metro area and it's even worse... I know that if I lived in Boston, I would be out there twice a week to catch the Sawx play, if I could even get tix. /mestarts looking at monster.com

Edit: How many NYY fans here have gone to a game this year? Be honest

Bwahahaha, Speed always has to stroke his Bosox shlong with some lame argument. "Yeah your team is winning, but the Red Sox have better fans!!!"

Godzilla is tear up the REDSOX Nation.
It may be sweep but most likely a 5 gamer, going to the yanks

 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: TheAudit
Speedy?s fandom tirade is getting more than tedious.
You see, his team is not winning on the field so he switches his arguments to the fans now. Oh, we?re better fans. WHOOPDEDAMNDO

85 years and counting.
Hey, you said it, not me I was just trying to show you that more Boston fans go to the games, % wise of people who actually live in the city. Factor in the metro area and it's even worse... I know that if I lived in Boston, I would be out there twice a week to catch the Sawx play, if I could even get tix. /mestarts looking at monster.com

Edit: How many NYY fans here have gone to a game this year? Be honest

I've been to 7 or 8 Yankee games this year.
 

pmoa

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2001
2,623
3
81
i was at yankee stadium this year and i saw some guys with classless "making fun of asian glasses with buck teeth" in support of Matsui. I find those kind of offensive. like i said classless
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
Originally posted by: pmoa
i was at yankee stadium this year and i saw some guys with classless "making fun of asian glasses with buck teeth" in support of Matsui. I find those kind of offensive. like i said classless

With a comment like that, I hope you're not a Red Sox fan. I mean, they do some pretty classless stuff as well. Face it, every city has its assholes, and some of them are going to be at the local team's games.
 

bigdog1218

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
1,674
2
0
One of the reasons why I despise the Red Sox is because of the fans. Red sox fans are horrible baseball fans, the majority are college kids who moved to Boston and didn't give two sh!ts about the team before college, and won't care when they leave. Fenway sells out because its the cool thing to be a Red Sox fan and go to the games, not because they're great fans.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: TheAudit
Speedy?s fandom tirade is getting more than tedious.
You see, his team is not winning on the field so he switches his arguments to the fans now. Oh, we?re better fans. WHOOPDEDAMNDO

85 years and counting.
Hey, you said it, not me I was just trying to show you that more Boston fans go to the games, % wise of people who actually live in the city. Factor in the metro area and it's even worse... I know that if I lived in Boston, I would be out there twice a week to catch the Sawx play, if I could even get tix. /mestarts looking at monster.com

Edit: How many NYY fans here have gone to a game this year? Be honest

Bwahahaha, Speed always has to stroke his Bosox shlong with some lame argument. "Yeah your team is winning, but the Red Sox have better fans!!!"
I see I have hit a nerve with my fairweather Yankee friends. How many games have you gone to again? Don't lie, cuz deep down you know you're just a NY poser if you do.
 

pmoa

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2001
2,623
3
81
Originally posted by: bigdog1218
One of the reasons why I despise the Red Sox is because of the fans. Red sox fans are horrible baseball fans, the majority are college kids who moved to Boston and didn't give two sh!ts about the team before college, and won't care when they leave. Fenway sells out because its the cool thing to be a Red Sox fan and go to the games, not because they're great fans.

likewise....only its not just in the city or its trendy for celebrities.....but its ALL OVER THE DAMN NATION. And im not a college kid who moved into town. I have been a fan since i could remember watching baseball. thats why we hate each other cause the fans are what makes it ridiculous. You wont get off your high horse and be humble. The celtics have 13 rings and we dont make a huge fuss about it when we go see the knicks.
 

bigdog1218

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
1,674
2
0
Originally posted by: pmoa
Originally posted by: bigdog1218
One of the reasons why I despise the Red Sox is because of the fans. Red sox fans are horrible baseball fans, the majority are college kids who moved to Boston and didn't give two sh!ts about the team before college, and won't care when they leave. Fenway sells out because its the cool thing to be a Red Sox fan and go to the games, not because they're great fans.

likewise....only its not just in the city or its trendy for celebrities.....but its ALL OVER THE DAMN NATION. And im not a college kid who moved into town. I have been a fan since i could remember watching baseball. thats why we hate each other cause the fans are what makes it ridiculous. You wont get off your high horse and be humble. The celtics have 13 rings and we dont make a huge fuss about it when we go see the knicks.

Ok, first, I hate the knicks so do whatever you want to them, second I'm a mets fan and hate the Yankees, third I've lived in both NY and Boston, and the Boston fans I've met when I moved here 5 years ago are 10x worse than the Yankee fans I grew up with. The Red Sox fan base revolves around Boston being a college town.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: bigdog1218
One of the reasons why I despise the Red Sox is because of the fans. Red sox fans are horrible baseball fans, the majority are college kids who moved to Boston and didn't give two sh!ts about the team before college, and won't care when they leave. Fenway sells out because its the cool thing to be a Red Sox fan and go to the games, not because they're great fans.
Maybe, but the worst is that the majority of Yankee fans are comprised of FOB Latino's who only like NY because Rivera does all of his interviews in Spanish, as well as black gansta thugs who only like NY because Jay-Z wears a Yankee cap tilted sideways in his videos. Also the Italians who will only go to the game because of Joe Torre. Most of these Yankee fans will forget about their team after Rivera is traded, Torre is fired, and Jay-Z loses to Nas in a hip hop "battle". These are the reasons why I "despise" the Yankees, b/c of all these poser groups that make up the majority of their fans.
 

Sideswipe001

Golden Member
May 23, 2003
1,116
0
0
Arguing about who's fans are "Best" is really pointless. Yes, Boston sells out. Yes, it's in part because they have a small stadium. Yes, it's mostly because they have rabid fans (and I do believe that's a good word to use to describe them - Sp33d here is a perfect example ). You think the rivalry would still be alive without the fans? Yankee fans hate the Red Sox and Boston, but Red Sox fans hate the Yankees more.

I say this having watched my dad (a Yankee fan) my whole life. He has been a fan sicne the Mantle days, and never waivered when they sucked. He stayed up at night to see if Boston lost, just as much as he ever watched to see if the Yankees won. But that's nothing compared to the Boston fans. If there is a fight in this series, where will it be? In Boston.

My only argument against the attendance thing, is simply: Shortage drives up demand. When you can't get tickets, you want them. If you can, you don't want them as bad. It's just how people are. Give Boston a new staduim with 1.5x as many seats, and the sellouts would stop. (Not that I could ever imagine them replacing Fenway).
 

pmoa

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2001
2,623
3
81
then you didnt live in boston long enough! Of course you will say your yankee friends are better because THEY ARE YOUR FRIENDS, not red sox fans that you didnt grow up with. I can say the same when i grew up with red sox fans and went to college in NY at syracuse. The yankee fans were just as bad. so your argument = void.
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,019
1
0
My take on the fan situation:
The difference between NYC and Boston is Boston has been through such heartbreak that over time, the fans that jump on the BoSox bandwagon during playoffs/ALCS time actually start to care a bit and then get their hearts ripped out by the NYY. This eventually leads to then gaining a greater percentage of their population being attached to the BoSox. The Yanks may have their fairweather fans, but some of the BoSox fans (and not many, but you know they exist) are Boston v. Yankees fans only (I wouldn't jump so far as to call them "poorweather" fans, even though for the past 85 years that's all it has been ) It's my opinion (although I may not be able to test it this year) that true fans are developed in adversity, so if the BoSox were ever to beat the Yankees, the amount of fans who actually care would go up. However, as it continues on this current pace, the Yankees won't gain fans nearly as fast as Boston will.
Of course, that's just my opinion. This also doesn't explain why we don't fill up the Stadium. Hell, I'm doing my part but I'm just one seat.
P.S. I've been to 10 games this year, including ALCS Game 1.
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,019
1
0
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: bigdog1218
One of the reasons why I despise the Red Sox is because of the fans. Red sox fans are horrible baseball fans, the majority are college kids who moved to Boston and didn't give two sh!ts about the team before college, and won't care when they leave. Fenway sells out because its the cool thing to be a Red Sox fan and go to the games, not because they're great fans.
Maybe, but the worst is that the majority of Yankee fans are comprised of FOB Latino's who only like NY because Rivera does all of his interviews in Spanish, as well as black gansta thugs who only like NY because Jay-Z wears a Yankee cap tilted sideways in his videos. Also the Italians who will only go to the game because of Joe Torre. Most of these Yankee fans will forget about their team after Rivera is traded, Torre is fired, and Jay-Z loses to Nas in a hip hop "battle". These are the reasons why I "despise" the Yankees, b/c of all these poser groups that make up the majority of their fans.

And you know this how? Have you ever BEEN to Yankee Stadium? Even if you have, where did you sit to see something on par with this? And if you haven't been to the Stadium, what would make you think this anyway?
 

Sideswipe001

Golden Member
May 23, 2003
1,116
0
0
Speaking of fans though, did anyone notice how horrible the fans were in Atlanta? I mean, not selling out regular season is one thing, but the playoffs? Having 10,000 seats not sold? Someone needs to beat them next year just so they won't waste space like that anymore.
 

ActuaryTm

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2003
6,858
12
81
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I see I have hit a nerve with my fairweather Yankee friends.
There are those of us (and we are not all that rare) who have watched our team faithfully over the past 30 years - watched many a seasons where the organization was fortunate to finish above .500, watched entire careers elapse (Mattingly comes to mind) with seldom a post-season appearance, watched pitching staffs that performed utterly poorly, and watched managers changed as often as the winds.

Please do those described above a favor by not insulting your own intelligence to the point of generalizing all of a specific population that is obviously segmenting into many, many sects.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: Legendary
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: bigdog1218
One of the reasons why I despise the Red Sox is because of the fans. Red sox fans are horrible baseball fans, the majority are college kids who moved to Boston and didn't give two sh!ts about the team before college, and won't care when they leave. Fenway sells out because its the cool thing to be a Red Sox fan and go to the games, not because they're great fans.
Maybe, but the worst is that the majority of Yankee fans are comprised of FOB Latino's who only like NY because Rivera does all of his interviews in Spanish, as well as black gansta thugs who only like NY because Jay-Z wears a Yankee cap tilted sideways in his videos. Also the Italians who will only go to the game because of Joe Torre. Most of these Yankee fans will forget about their team after Rivera is traded, Torre is fired, and Jay-Z loses to Nas in a hip hop "battle". These are the reasons why I "despise" the Yankees, b/c of all these poser groups that make up the majority of their fans.

And you know this how? Have you ever BEEN to Yankee Stadium? Even if you have, where did you sit to see something on par with this? And if you haven't been to the Stadium, what would make you think this anyway?
I sat by the third base line. Speaking of the majority of fans, did I mention all of those dam Asians who can't speak English yet go to root for Matsui? Or even the Irish people who go there all drunk and wanting to fight, with their "cute" little Orange and Green NY shirts? This is why I "despise" NY fans, since the "majority" of fans are like this.

I'll be back later, have to write up an SOP for my boss (he's Russian), he gets mad if I don't finish it on time and will start chugging vodka that he hides under his desk if I don't. Plus I wanna get out of work by 3pm, because at 4 is when all the old people get in my way on the road, as well as the female drivers, who the hell gave them all a license anyway?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: ActuaryTm
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I see I have hit a nerve with my fairweather Yankee friends.
There are those of us (and we are not all that rare) who have watched our team faithfully over the past 30 years - watched many a seasons where the organization was fortunate to finish above .500, watched entire careers elapse (Mattingly comes to mind) with seldom a post-season appearance, watched pitching staffs that performed utterly poorly, and watched managers changed as often as the winds.

Please do those described above a favor by not insulting your own intelligence to the point of generalizing all of a specific population that is obviously segmenting into many, many sects.
Bwahahaha, Actuary always has to stroke his Yankee shlong with some lame argument. "Yeah your team is winning, but the Yankees have better fans!!!"

 
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