Actually Red Sox fans are more a$$holes than Yankee fans. How would you feel if you had to defend your team everywhere you go from people like yourself?
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Seriously, why are Yankees fans the most obnoxious fans on the planet? The rabid Red Sox fans I've met aren't nearly as bad as some of the morons are here.
Oh and a :thumbsdown: to all the fair-weather fans.
It's good the Yankees are finally playing like a $180 million team, however I don't think them or the Red Sox will be able to beat the Cards.
Originally posted by: RedPickle
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Seriously, why are Yankees fans the most obnoxious fans on the planet? The rabid Red Sox fans I've met aren't nearly as bad as some of the morons are here.
Oh and a :thumbsdown: to all the fair-weather fans.
It's good the Yankees are finally playing like a $180 million team, however I don't think them or the Red Sox will be able to beat the Cards.
Actually Red Sox fans are more a$$holes than Yankee fans. How would you feel if you had to defend your team everywhere you go from people like yourself?
On August 12, 1994 professional baseball players went on strike for the eighth time in the sports? history. Since 1972, negotiations between the union and owners over contract terms has led to major economic problems and the absence of a World Series in 1994
Originally posted by: mattlear
Originally posted by: Axon
But Bernie would have never made that mistake on the bases. That's a fundamental, little-league level mistake, irregardless of how close the play was. (He was out, by the way.) When you're down runs and your core bats are coming up, don't make a play like that. Brown would have been under enough pressure in that scenario and it would have been a great opportunity to steal. Also, you know your guys are more than capable of a deep base hit to bring you in.
Dude, I'm a yankees fan, and I have to admit that Bernie is a TERRIBLE base runner. Anyone who has watched the yankees knows this. It's like he gets "deer in headlights" out there on the basepaths.
Of course, I'm not saying Manny is any better. In fact, I don't want to kill him for trying for third. The only thing I think that was bad was that people know sheffield has a really good arm in right. Also, after watching the replay (only once or twice), I think Manny beat the tag.
Speaking of Manny, I've never really been enamored by him. He's a great hitter, power and average, but he doesn't really wow me. As an outfielder, I think he is BELOW average, as it looks like he doesn't really hustle nor posesses a strong arm.
Interesting article in today's NY Daily News about Pedro's "mango tree" speech being a calculated plea to George to go after him in the off-season.
As far as Schilling getting hurt and costing the sox this series... I think that yeah, it did hurt them. Oh well, injuries are part of the game. No one felt bad for NY when Brown's back got messed up this year, and he went from a very good pitcher to mediocre. Also, the fact that Boston put up 7 runs in the first game means nothing to me. I think if the game were closer at that point (8-0 at the time), Torre would have gotten someone else up in the bullpen WAY earlier than he did. He left Mussina in because the game was 8-0 at that point, and he was pitching a perfect game. If anytyhing, I think the big lead contributed to the Sox getting back into it, because Torre wasn't as aggressive with the bullpen. I mean, if Mussina can pitch his way out of the 7th with an 8-0 lead, then Torre saves the bullpen from work, which he may need if Lieber falters in Game 2. If the game is closer, I think Torre goes to the bullpen much earlier, and maybe Gordon and Rivera come in (Not that Gordon has had a strong series... he has been pretty bad IMO).
Anyways, for all the talk about the RedSox lineup being better than the yankees, how do they compare when you match up hitters by place in the order? Jeter / Damon, A-Rod/Bellhorn, Manny / Sheffield, etc... might be interesting to get some discussion on this.
Lets hope we get the sweep tonight! Go Yanks!
Strongly disagreeOriginally posted by: NYHoustonman
Damon>Jeter
AgreedBellhorn<<ARod
Very debatableManny>Sheffield
AgreedOrtiz>Matsui
Not in the postseasonVaritek>Williams
AgreedNixon=Posada
Agreed, but Millar < Sierra/LoftonMillar>Sierra
AgreedMueller>Olerud
Agreed.Cabrera=Cairo (although if we only include his numbers while on the Sox Cabrera is better).
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Originally posted by: mattlear
Originally posted by: Axon
But Bernie would have never made that mistake on the bases. That's a fundamental, little-league level mistake, irregardless of how close the play was. (He was out, by the way.) When you're down runs and your core bats are coming up, don't make a play like that. Brown would have been under enough pressure in that scenario and it would have been a great opportunity to steal. Also, you know your guys are more than capable of a deep base hit to bring you in.
Dude, I'm a yankees fan, and I have to admit that Bernie is a TERRIBLE base runner. Anyone who has watched the yankees knows this. It's like he gets "deer in headlights" out there on the basepaths.
Of course, I'm not saying Manny is any better. In fact, I don't want to kill him for trying for third. The only thing I think that was bad was that people know sheffield has a really good arm in right. Also, after watching the replay (only once or twice), I think Manny beat the tag.
Speaking of Manny, I've never really been enamored by him. He's a great hitter, power and average, but he doesn't really wow me. As an outfielder, I think he is BELOW average, as it looks like he doesn't really hustle nor posesses a strong arm.
Interesting article in today's NY Daily News about Pedro's "mango tree" speech being a calculated plea to George to go after him in the off-season.
As far as Schilling getting hurt and costing the sox this series... I think that yeah, it did hurt them. Oh well, injuries are part of the game. No one felt bad for NY when Brown's back got messed up this year, and he went from a very good pitcher to mediocre. Also, the fact that Boston put up 7 runs in the first game means nothing to me. I think if the game were closer at that point (8-0 at the time), Torre would have gotten someone else up in the bullpen WAY earlier than he did. He left Mussina in because the game was 8-0 at that point, and he was pitching a perfect game. If anytyhing, I think the big lead contributed to the Sox getting back into it, because Torre wasn't as aggressive with the bullpen. I mean, if Mussina can pitch his way out of the 7th with an 8-0 lead, then Torre saves the bullpen from work, which he may need if Lieber falters in Game 2. If the game is closer, I think Torre goes to the bullpen much earlier, and maybe Gordon and Rivera come in (Not that Gordon has had a strong series... he has been pretty bad IMO).
Anyways, for all the talk about the RedSox lineup being better than the yankees, how do they compare when you match up hitters by place in the order? Jeter / Damon, A-Rod/Bellhorn, Manny / Sheffield, etc... might be interesting to get some discussion on this.
Lets hope we get the sweep tonight! Go Yanks!
Yep, Manny beat the tag, the announcers said it themselves.
Someone else mentioned Rivera against the Sox; As far as closer numbers go, the Sox hit him very well this year (4.22 ERA).
Damon>Jeter
Bellhorn<<ARod
Manny>Sheffield
Ortiz>Matsui
Varitek>Williams
Nixon=Posada
Millar>Sierra
Mueller>Olerud
Cabrera=Cairo (although if we only include his numbers while on the Sox Cabrera is better).
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Damon>Jeter
Bellhorn<<ARod
Manny>Sheffield
Ortiz>Matsui
Varitek>Williams
Nixon=Posada
Millar>Sierra
Mueller>Olerud
Cabrera=Cairo (although if we only include his numbers while on the Sox Cabrera is better).
Too bad the Sox players don't come through when it matters.
Originally posted by: mattlear
Check this out.
I was browsing the bostonHerald site to see what "the other side" thinks, and I cam across this article!
How to pull kids up when Sox slide
I got a chuckle that something like this got printed.
As far as the comparisons, I'd say they are pretty close. I'm not sure I would put Ortiz > Matsui though. There numbers are pretty darn close. I'm not even really sold on the Damon > Jeter arguement either. I don't see where one is significantly better than the other...
I think alot was made about this RedSox team being the number #1 offense in baseball this year. That, and having Schilling / Martinez as a 1-2 punch, probably contributed to most folks thinking RedSox in 6.
I think what gets overlooked is that the Yankees also hit pretty well (I think they led the majors in homers this year?) and that compared to other years, their pitching was not as good (circa 1998). The pitching being compared to previous yankee playoff teams more than anything probably made folks think the redsox were a much better team than the yankees this year (even though they finished second in the standings)
Go Yanks!
Originally posted by: jaydee
I don't understand all the people saying Boston has a better team then NY. Doesn't anyone think they're is a reason the Yanks have won the division for 7 years (or however long) and the Red Sox coming in 2nd? A reason the Yankees have gone farther in the postseason EVERY one of those years?
Ok let's, just talk this season. Yanks won the division by 3 or 4 games, lost the season series between the two clubs, but just barely and won the games they needed to down the stretch to put them away. I like just about every match-up position by position, and I actually like Orlando Hernandez's 2nd half stats and post-season history just as much if not more than Schilling's. Pedro of old hasn't been seen in years (Yankees have won 18 out of the last 24 games Pedro's started against them I believe I heard), and there is no comparison between the two bullpens. Yankees have better team defense and a deeper bench. IMO the Red Sox were just over-rated coming into this series. The Angels were not that good of a team, sweeping them was not a huge feat in the first round.
And no, I will not say that Schilling if healthy automatically wins 3 games in this series. Firstly, if Hernandez is healthy, he's pitching great as well in game 1, and on 3 days rest for both games, does anyone honestly believe Schill is going to throw a total of more than 20 innings in those 3 games? Against a patient Yankees offense that led the AL in walks. You know they're going to stretch that pitch count as high as they can in Games 1 and 4. And don't forget, Schill was set up to take the loss in Game 7 in the 2001 WS. Had it not been for a 9th inning rally to bail him out, Soriano's HR would have made him the goat. Not to say he pitched bad, because he didn't but geez, everyone thinks he's invincible and he's not.
Just because they are called the Yankees does not mean that the same players are on the field year after year. It's a different team. No Pettite, no Clemens, no Wells.Originally posted by: jaydee
I don't understand all the people saying Boston has a better team then NY. Doesn't anyone think they're is a reason the Yanks have won the division for 7 years (or however long) and the Red Sox coming in 2nd? A reason the Yankees have gone farther in the postseason EVERY one of those years?
The Yankees won the division by 3 games. They never put the Sox away.Ok let's, just talk this season. Yanks won the division by 3 or 4 games, lost the season series between the two clubs, but just barely and won the games they needed to down the stretch to put them away.
The Angels had the best bullpen is baseball. They had a solid attack with the bat. They were not a great team, but they were a darn good team.I like just about every match-up position by position, and I actually like Orlando Hernandez's 2nd half stats and post-season history just as much if not more than Schilling's. Pedro of old hasn't been seen in years (Yankees have won 18 out of the last 24 games Pedro's started against them I believe I heard), and there is no comparison between the two bullpens. Yankees have better team defense and a deeper bench. IMO the Red Sox were just over-rated coming into this series. The Angels were not that good of a team, sweeping them was not a huge feat in the first round.
Just look at his postseason stats and look how well he pitched against the Yankees during the season. The guy is a stud.And no, I will not say that Schilling if healthy automatically wins 3 games in this series. Firstly, if Hernandez is healthy, he's pitching great as well in game 1, and on 3 days rest for both games, does anyone honestly believe Schill is going to throw a total of more than 20 innings in those 3 games? Against a patient Yankees offense that led the AL in walks. You know they're going to stretch that pitch count as high as they can in Games 1 and 4. And don't forget, Schill was set up to take the loss in Game 7 in the 2001 WS. Had it not been for a 9th inning rally to bail him out, Soriano's HR would have made him the goat. Not to say he pitched bad, because he didn't but geez, everyone thinks he's invincible and he's not.
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Statistically, Manny crushes Sheffield and Ortiz crushes Matsui.
Too bad the Sox players don't come through when it matters.
Thing is, they have many times in the past (just look at the entire team when it was playing the Angels). They were just completely grounded after the first game and the loss of Schilling, and things have only gone down since then.
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Hernandez is overrated IMO. As I've said many times, the Sox very obviously had him figured out in his start against them this year.
Schilling isn't invincible, but he gives you a solid chance to win each of those 3 games, and I would expect to win 2 of them.
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Statistically, Manny crushes Sheffield and Ortiz crushes Matsui.
Too bad the Sox players don't come through when it matters.
Thing is, they have many times in the past (just look at the entire team when it was playing the Angels). They were just completely grounded after the first game and the loss of Schilling, and things have only gone down since then.
Yeah, they did come up big vs. the Angels, but they went into that series against a decimated team that really wasn't much competition for them. Playing against the Yankees must put a lot more pressure on the Sox players than playing against the Angels. And really, that's what the curse is all about. Just the concept of a curse increases the amount of pressure the Sox players have to deal with, and every time they blow it things just get worse. Sort of a self perpetuating problem.
Sox figuring out El Duque is about as valid as the Yankees figuring out Schilling in Game 1. When Hernandez pitched against Boston, he had a sore arm and his velocity was WAY down. Not the same guy that was 8-0 with an ERA of 2.50 until his last two starts.
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
The Angels, according to most analysts, were the favorites going into the series because, like the Sox now, they had the momentum going for them.
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
The Angels, according to most analysts, were the favorites going into the series because, like the Sox now, they had the momentum going for them.
granted, i didn't do much more than read ESPN, but
what the fvck are you smoking?
Originally posted by: Yossarian
I'd like to "bludgeon" Tim McCarver.
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Just because they are called the Yankees does not mean that the same players are on the field year after year. It's a different team. No Pettite, no Clemens, no Wells.Originally posted by: jaydee
I don't understand all the people saying Boston has a better team then NY. Doesn't anyone think they're is a reason the Yanks have won the division for 7 years (or however long) and the Red Sox coming in 2nd? A reason the Yankees have gone farther in the postseason EVERY one of those years?
The Yankees won the division by 3 games. They never put the Sox away.Ok let's, just talk this season. Yanks won the division by 3 or 4 games, lost the season series between the two clubs, but just barely and won the games they needed to down the stretch to put them away.
The Angels had the best bullpen is baseball. They had a solid attack with the bat. They were not a great team, but they were a darn good team.I like just about every match-up position by position, and I actually like Orlando Hernandez's 2nd half stats and post-season history just as much if not more than Schilling's. Pedro of old hasn't been seen in years (Yankees have won 18 out of the last 24 games Pedro's started against them I believe I heard), and there is no comparison between the two bullpens. Yankees have better team defense and a deeper bench. IMO the Red Sox were just over-rated coming into this series. The Angels were not that good of a team, sweeping them was not a huge feat in the first round.
Just look at his postseason stats and look how well he pitched against the Yankees during the season. The guy is a stud.And no, I will not say that Schilling if healthy automatically wins 3 games in this series. Firstly, if Hernandez is healthy, he's pitching great as well in game 1, and on 3 days rest for both games, does anyone honestly believe Schill is going to throw a total of more than 20 innings in those 3 games? Against a patient Yankees offense that led the AL in walks. You know they're going to stretch that pitch count as high as they can in Games 1 and 4. And don't forget, Schill was set up to take the loss in Game 7 in the 2001 WS. Had it not been for a 9th inning rally to bail him out, Soriano's HR would have made him the goat. Not to say he pitched bad, because he didn't but geez, everyone thinks he's invincible and he's not.
For all intents and purposes, they won the division in taking 2 of 3 at Yankee Stadium with 2 weeks left. Maybe not mathematically, but practically. Even the Red Sox players and fans admitted they were playing for the wild card at that point.Originally posted by: ThePresence
The Yankees won the division by 3 games. They never put the Sox away.
Best bullpen, ok. But starting pitching and hitting mean a heck of a lot more and they lacked both.The Angels had the best bullpen is baseball. They had a solid attack with the bat. They were not a great team, but they were a darn good team.
I know his postseason stats, and I just looked up what he did this season against the Yankees. 2-1, he walked 4 in each of the wins, pitched well otherwise. In the loss, he was shelled for 10 hits, 7 runs in 5+ innings. I'm still not conceeding that under normal circumstances, he wins 3 games in a series.Just look at his postseason stats and look how well he pitched against the Yankees during the season. The guy is a stud.