**OFFICIAL** Killzone 2 Thread

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DanTMWTMP

Lifer
Oct 7, 2001
15,908
19
81
about the delay/lag in the controls. My two roommates, who are CS majors, told me that the implementation of a delay in the controls are there to assist the processing of the game in general. The delay needed to be implemented in order to meet performance goals of the game. It is not a design feature straight from the start. It's a feature that was implemented to cope with the limited capabilities of the PS3 vs what they wanted to show on the screen.

The entire "weighty" excuse is just that.. an excuse. They didn't put it in game so you can control a "human.." (humans can run a bunch, wait 2-3 seconds, and run that same distance; over and over and over again? They can be shot anywhere and still run?).


To me, the complaints are valid. I have have never seen a flamewar over FPS controls ever, until KZ2. The fact that there are even arguments over the issue just tells me it's that the controls just suck. Period. No excuses, nothing. A game isn't supposed to induce such complaints nor arguments over petty controls.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
76
Originally posted by: hans030390
Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
I didn't even notice the update...!

That's because it isn't available in the US yet...

Well there u have it. Like I said, I hadn't noticed it. I guess the increased intuitivity in the controls is just me getting better at the game. I rule!!!!!

Hans, any chance you used to run a NWN persistent world?
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
Originally posted by: hans030390
Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
I didn't even notice the update...!

That's because it isn't available in the US yet...

Well there u have it. Like I said, I hadn't noticed it. I guess the increased intuitivity in the controls is just me getting better at the game. I rule!!!!!

Hans, any chance you used to run a NWN persistent world?

Not that I'm aware of.

Edit: Fanboys are erupting over at the PS forums. "OMG GG YOU JUST MADE KZ2 ANOTHER COD4 YOUR STUPID IM RETURNING MY GAME! I HOPE THE REST OF YOU WHINERS ARE HAPPY"

Funny how it's a US forum...and...the patch isn't out yet. And apparently the difference is minimal. Less dead-zone, less floaty controls. Just more precise. The weighty feel is still there.

Either way, it's a funny read.
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
US patch is out. Opinions?

Edit: Having just tried out some MP against bots for a couple minutes, I can definitely tell a difference. It's slight enough to still hold the weighty feel, but enough that people should be much happier.

Less dead zone, less lag (jumping is still slow...oh well), easier to aim (the reticule actually stops when you do), etc.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
about the delay/lag in the controls. My two roommates, who are CS majors, told me that the implementation of a delay in the controls are there to assist the processing of the game in general. The delay needed to be implemented in order to meet performance goals of the game. It is not a design feature straight from the start. It's a feature that was implemented to cope with the limited capabilities of the PS3 vs what they wanted to show on the screen.

The entire "weighty" excuse is just that.. an excuse. They didn't put it in game so you can control a "human.." (humans can run a bunch, wait 2-3 seconds, and run that same distance; over and over and over again? They can be shot anywhere and still run?).


To me, the complaints are valid. I have have never seen a flamewar over FPS controls ever, until KZ2. The fact that there are even arguments over the issue just tells me it's that the controls just suck. Period. No excuses, nothing. A game isn't supposed to induce such complaints nor arguments over petty controls.

Are you sure it just isn't nitpicking over one of the most hyped games ever
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Are you sure it just isn't nitpicking over one of the most hyped games ever

It's not nitpicking when it's a fundamental problem with the controls. That's like saying that complaining about how a car drives/handles is being nitpicky. In this case, a car that doesn't do anything until you turn the wheel 30 degrees in either direction and if you are at a stop sign and decide to turn, it happens in slow motion.

 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
Originally posted by: sygyzy
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Are you sure it just isn't nitpicking over one of the most hyped games ever

It's not nitpicking when it's a fundamental problem with the controls. That's like saying that complaining about how a car drives/handles is being nitpicky. In this case, a car that doesn't do anything until you turn the wheel 30 degrees in either direction and if you are at a stop sign and decide to turn, it happens in slow motion.

See if you like it more after the patch, seriously.
 

JoPh

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2002
7,312
1
76
im going to try again this weekend. ill report back once i get the patch.
 

R Nilla

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2006
3,835
1
0
WTF. I put a good 30 to 40 minutes into a match last night, was doing pretty well and was going to get a lot of points and probably a few badges, but as soon as the round ends I get a connection error and subsequently lose all of those stats / points. :|
 

R Nilla

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2006
3,835
1
0
Looks like Killzone.com is finally live (with stats), although still really slow. There's something on your stat page called Battle Replay, where you can replay an entire match. It shows the map from an overhead view, and each player is represented by a dot. The dots move around on the map exactly as the players did in that match, and it shows who kills who, etc. There are playback controls to watch it in realtime or fast forward. Pretty cool.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
76
Looks like the patch might be a winner. The controls are tighter and I didn't get disconnected once last night after I patched.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
about the delay/lag in the controls. My two roommates, who are CS majors, told me that the implementation of a delay in the controls are there to assist the processing of the game in general. The delay needed to be implemented in order to meet performance goals of the game. It is not a design feature straight from the start. It's a feature that was implemented to cope with the limited capabilities of the PS3 vs what they wanted to show on the screen.

The entire "weighty" excuse is just that.. an excuse. They didn't put it in game so you can control a "human.." (humans can run a bunch, wait 2-3 seconds, and run that same distance; over and over and over again? They can be shot anywhere and still run?).


To me, the complaints are valid. I have have never seen a flamewar over FPS controls ever, until KZ2. The fact that there are even arguments over the issue just tells me it's that the controls just suck. Period. No excuses, nothing. A game isn't supposed to induce such complaints nor arguments over petty controls.

Well your CS majors are BSing because, apparently you haven't read the entire thread.

The game does not have an input lag. At least, not sure everyone. When every PS3 is the same, why would a developer input to help the PS3 power everything along correctly, NOT be experienced by everybody?

For the record, I guarantee I have no lag. I press a button, it happens. When I press the PS button and move up and down, it happens right away. It happens in the game the same way, no input lag.

The input lag seems to be something only some people experience, but those people are vocal. And then you get the people who confuse the difference between input lag and weighty controls.
The controls are what I describe as weighty - slower, essentially, with momentum to movement represented onscreen.
The controls, on my end, have no input lag. Not sure if it was a demo-only related issue, but hell, I didn't even have any input lag in the demo, while some here were extremely vocal that it was real. I don't doubt it, the videos online of the input lag made it very apparent. However, I should capture a video one day because I don't experience any of that. And it seems others here do not either.

oh, and never heard complaints of controls in a flamewar regarding console exclusives? REALLY? You're not paying attention if you've never heard of such an issue before.

However, in this game. The 'flamewar' over even fans of PS3 games... I think its mostly because people are idiots. First, they think one thing is the same as something else. Input lag isn't the same as slower controls.
And then, the other half of the problem is that people don't like change. Almost all other popular shooters, have anywhere from a little bit faster, to very twitchy controls. People wanted that in this game, because all the magazines hyping it was a game like CoD4 and beyond, you get people thinking "OMG it plays just like CoD4? SWEET!", and then the slower, heavier controls really piss them off.

People don't like change. People will bitch every chance they get when they are presented with change.
It may not always be over controls. But the fanboys for generations have always gone in an uproar over drastic change. Some are persistent in the changes were bad, but over time many people take a new look, adjust, and learn to appreciate the changes.

That is a fact that will never change. All people bitch over major changes to what they are used to/like. Over time, they either adjust and learn to appreciate, or they continue to bitch. But the bitching group drastically grows smaller as time goes on.

This time next year they won't be nearly as many people getting all pissy about K2, and there will be far more people actually treating it as a damn good game, or even a game they think is decent but not worth getting pissy about.
 

bdubyah

Senior member
Nov 20, 2007
541
1
81
well i, for one, don't mind change, if it is for good. but the way KZ2 is right now, it isn't much fun for me. it doesn't really bother me all that much, but it is disappointing to see a game, think it will be awesome, and have it turn out sub-par because of something like the controls.

i wanted it to be something that would suck me in, like COD4 did. but i guess that game will have to be COD:MW2.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
0
0
Originally posted by: bdubyah
well i, for one, don't mind change, if it is for good. but the way KZ2 is right now, it isn't much fun for me. it doesn't really bother me all that much, but it is disappointing to see a game, think it will be awesome, and have it turn out sub-par because of something like the controls.

i wanted it to be something that would suck me in, like COD4 did. but i guess that game will have to be COD:MW2.

That's exactly what I felt. I canceled my pre-order and went back to COD4 goodness.
Oh well, next COD and BF1943 ought to give me some variety in the 2009-2010 time frame.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Well I played a bit more over the weekend after the patch.

I am happy with the control changes and played through the second board, it IS getting better.

I might actually finish the game now that E:TW is screwed, but I am still not really impressed overall, it's just another shooter, albeit a very pretty one.
 

R Nilla

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2006
3,835
1
0
Originally posted by: FuryofFive
is this patch available to the US crowd?? or am i missing something

Been out for a few days now. You should have been prompted to download an update for version 1.20.
 

FuryofFive

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2005
1,544
9
71
Originally posted by: R Nilla
Originally posted by: FuryofFive
is this patch available to the US crowd?? or am i missing something

Been out for a few days now. You should have been prompted to download an update for version 1.20.

ahh ok.. go figure, i play a different game, and they update the one i wanna be playing, har har
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
Well I played a bit more over the weekend after the patch.

I am happy with the control changes and played through the second board, it IS getting better.

I might actually finish the game now that E:TW is screwed, but I am still not really impressed overall, it's just another shooter, albeit a very pretty one.

It gets better as you get more into it. The first level is really the weakest one of all that I've played (about half way through at this point... I think... judging from the trophies earned and yet to be earned). As you progress, the levels get better, much more varied, and at some times very challenging moments.
 

Industrial

Senior member
Jan 9, 2009
249
0
0
Don't know, but at this early of the game, I don't think they would put the patch into the demo.

I didn't really notice much of a change, but then again, I didn't have too much trouble with the controls to begin with. I think the controls felt a little tighter, or it could of been just the growing familiarity of the controls. Hard to say for me. My multiplayer kills/death ratio seemed higher, but like I said, hard to say if it was the patch or the familiarity.

Since they just released the patch and Titan pack for Unreal Tournament 3. I fired up the game on my PC. Oh the thrill of hyper twitch reflex gaming. I stick to deathmatch type games, so it's all about how fast and precise you can hit. Still annoyed at some of the spammy weapons, but switching to instaglib games made it enjoyable for me.

However, as much fun as it was playing UT3, while playing it for a few hours, I started to miss the more tactical and intense firefights that KZ2 had. So from going to one extreme to the next, makes you really appreciate the different types of gameplay.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: Industrial
Don't know, but at this early of the game, I don't think they would put the patch into the demo.

I didn't really notice much of a change, but then again, I didn't have too much trouble with the controls to begin with. I think the controls felt a little tighter, or it could of been just the growing familiarity of the controls. Hard to say for me. My multiplayer kills/death ratio seemed higher, but like I said, hard to say if it was the patch or the familiarity.

Since they just released the patch and Titan pack for Unreal Tournament 3. I fired up the game on my PC. Oh the thrill of hyper twitch reflex gaming. I stick to deathmatch type games, so it's all about how fast and precise you can hit. Still annoyed at some of the spammy weapons, but switching to instaglib games made it enjoyable for me.

However, as much fun as it was playing UT3, while playing it for a few hours, I started to miss the more tactical and intense firefights that KZ2 had. So from going to one extreme to the next, makes you really appreciate the different types of gameplay.

Yeah I'm the same way. I recently picked up UT3 on Steam and updated with the Titan Pack but haven't had a chance to play it yet. Haven't played online yet either, but have played online before with UT2003/2004.
I'll enjoy those games for awhile, but I never really get drawn into them. It's mostly just something to play and screw around, and not really worry about K/D ratio, and basically just unwind and release mass destruction.

Killzone 2 is the first shooter I'm actually trying to take seriously in a long time, and it's both very rewarding, visceral, and just plain fun. The last game I really got into was a PC game, and PC games were really the only online games I really played anyhow. Never been great with console controllers in terms of multiplayer skill. Do great in single player but that's different.
That last game was Americas Army. Sadly it got ruined as a lot of the Counterstrike kiddies joined up and just played the game all fast... it killed it. It can be a twitchy game but was definitely designed to be a little slower, somewhat more tactical.
Really looking forward to Americas Army 3.0. It died to me after about 2.2. Maybe it was the version, maybe it was just the popularity attracted different types of people, but before that point people played the game differently. Here's to hoping AA3, with the Unreal Engine 3, will be just as enjoyable as AA used to be. Really took K/D seriously in that game, used a stats tracker, and tried to earn as much honor as possible.

And I'm doing that in Killzone 2. Really trying to play as best as I can, and earn the points I can. Sadly points are slow to come by since completing objectives isn't quite what I'm focusing on at the moment - trying to learn the maps so I can play more competitively... at this point I mostly hold back, try and stay down as much as possible and try and take people out from afar or by surprise.
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
I will say that once you reach Medic, it's a lot more fun.

Does anyone know what happens if I quit a MP game before it's over? I know I won't get the victory multiplier but will I at least get the mission points I earned so far?
 

R Nilla

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2006
3,835
1
0
Originally posted by: sygyzy
I will say that once you reach Medic, it's a lot more fun.

Does anyone know what happens if I quit a MP game before it's over? I know I won't get the victory multiplier but will I at least get the mission points I earned so far?

I was disconnected from a match once (right towards the end) and didn't receive any of my points, so I would guess no.
 
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