*official* Oblivion Thread, opinions?

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AdamSnow

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2002
5,736
0
76
Hey guy's... so I think I may have a problem... I am a member of the Dark Brotherhood, and completed a few missions for them...
I just got invited to the Thieves guild as well, but they say no killing or I'll have to pay a fine...

Does this pose a problem? Do the two clash with each other?
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,728
29
86
Originally posted by: AdamSnow
Hey guy's... so I think I may have a problem... I am a member of the Dark Brotherhood, and completed a few missions for them...
I just got invited to the Thieves guild as well, but they say no killing or I'll have to pay a fine...

Does this pose a problem? Do the two clash with each other?

Just don't kill a member of the Thieves Guild, and make sure you aren't in the middle of a Thieves Guild quest while doing a Dark Brotherhood one. The kill might count as a blood penalty in the TG quest.
 

professor1942

Senior member
Dec 22, 2005
509
0
0
Originally posted by: Azndude2190
What is Oblivion?Can someone just give me a summary?It seems interesting.What type of game is it?

It's a first person role-playing game with loads of action... even if you don't like role-playing games you will probably like this one.

I'd recommend reading the review at Gamespot if you want to know more.

 

QuinRiva

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2006
6
0
0
Although it is a better game in almost every way the Morrowind, it really feels like it has been dumbed down and consolised. They have taken out a lot of the things that made Morrowind unique, such as the armour (left/right pauldrons & gloves) and ability to wear clothes and armour at the same time (you can?t wear a robe over the top of your armour like you could in Morrowind). Also the user interface is horrendous; granted I am playing on a 22? monitor, but my inventory list only 6 items at a time and the word ?Iron dagger? is about an inch high and 4 inches long. What ever happened to size 12 font?

Now don?t get me wrong, I love the game and I will probably play it more this year then the combined play time of all the other games that I own. But it really does have that whole childish console feel to it (not that consoles are childish, but it?s chunky like Duplo as opposed the sleekness of Lego/Mechano).

I sick of reading all the hype about how it?s a revolutionary game. Granted the AI, all though flawed (and a lot of people have complained about this), is still more realistic than any other game that I have seen. But there are so many things that just feel like a step backward from Morrowind.

When I played Morrowind, I liked the fact that every character had a set difficulty. If you went in to a cave at level 3 and fought a Rouge leader he?d wipe the floor with you. But if you came back at level 30 you would kick his arse. In Oblivion I have never been in a situation where I have thought to my self, ?Damn, my character just isn?t good enough to take on this opponent. I should train up and come back later.? It seems as if almost everyone you fight is equally as hard. There?s no discrepancy between as easy fight and a hard one.

Also although I think the new combat system is more interactive, at the same time it is still greatly simplified. Each weapon only has one damage, no more thrust/chop/slash. And they have simplified the weapon types way too much: now there is only blades and blunt weapons. Apparently there is no difference between using a claymore and a dagger; an axe is a blunt weapon (theres no axe class), and there is no spears either. I mean hell they?re only one step away from having a one size fits all combat skill!

Oh, and how the hell does a vendor know if an item is stolen. In Morrowind you could sell stolen items just like all other items, but if you tried selling it to the person you stole it from they would know it was theirs and report you. In oblivion you can only sell stuff to fences. If a legit and stolen iron dagger look exactly the same why won?t a shop keeper buy them both. How do they know the difference?

On the other hand, apart from the psychic guards, being a rouge has greatly improved, with the whole light base sneaking and stuff.

Oblivion is an awesome game, I just feel that when comparing it to Morrowind, every time they have improved a gameplay issue, they have taken a step backwards somewhere else.
 

Hersh

Senior member
Oct 14, 1999
331
0
0
Originally posted by: QuinRiva
Also the user interface is horrendous; granted I am playing on a 22? monitor, but my inventory list only 6 items at a time and the word ?Iron dagger? is about an inch high and 4 inches long. What ever happened to size 12 font?

I posted this yesterday (page 15) but I guess you missed it; definitely worth a look for you.

Originally posted by: alphaz
-snip-

I also recommend the UI mod that decreases the size of the icons in the inventory so you can see more items in the UI.

Screenshots: http://www.beider.org/UIMods/screens
MOD: http://www.beider.org/UIMods/ImprovedUIModsWithNoMarkers2.01.rar (appropriate documentation contained within, props to the modders)

Originally posted by: QuinRiva
-snip on the morrowind stuff-

Oh, and how the hell does a vendor know if an item is stolen. In Morrowind you could sell stolen items just like all other items, but if you tried selling it to the person you stole it from they would know it was theirs and report you. In oblivion you can only sell stuff to fences. If a legit and stolen iron dagger look exactly the same why won?t a shop keeper buy them both. How do they know the difference?

On the other hand, apart from the psychic guards, being a rouge has greatly improved, with the whole light base sneaking and stuff.

Oblivion is an awesome game, I just feel that when comparing it to Morrowind, every time they have improved a gameplay issue, they have taken a step backwards somewhere else.

From reading alot of other Oblivion rants, I think former Morrowind players expected a Morrowind-esque game; perhaps some were expected everything to be the same except improved graphics, new world, other improvements not effecting gameplay. I think the developers were really trying to think of a way to revolutionize with Oblivion by making some changes from their former project; their goal wasn't to replicate Morrowind with another story. They took a risk by changing some of the reason why Morrowind became popular; for some of us, it paid off... for others, it didn't as much.

Definitely not saying Oblivion doesn't have any flaws of its own without having to compare it with Morrowind... it has its quirks but I am sure that they will be releasing patches to address the big quirks, I mean, they've been working on this game since 2002. What kind of software company would not pick up user/player feedback to improve the game?

In the end, I know exactly what you're saying with the ESP guards and the stolen-item-tracking merchants.. all I know is, I can steal stuff from closed stores but I can't seem to kill a non-quest NPC in the middle of the night without a guard appearing out of nowhere to confront me.

Still fun.
 

Arkane13131

Senior member
Feb 26, 2006
412
0
0
Oblivion is an awesome game. It is easy for we who played morrowind to overlook many of the cool attributes that had us come to love such games. So, as we look to recall how we feel about it...we absorb most of the coolstuff as a given and the bad features that bothered us..are what we end up commenting on. Basically if they fixed these few strange anomalies... the game would have been as near perfect as it gets.

In morrowind...you might get a quest..to go kill some rats in someone's house. Or you might get told to go kill someone here or there....This game's quests have alot more story to them....perhaps because the NPC's literally speak their problems to you with emotion rather than you just read what is going on....but also the occurences of what happens when you go perform these quests. It is really cool improvement... combat is enjoyable and the story engrossing. But I have to agree with you...wtf were they thinking releasing this game like this?

I exit the sewers in the very beginning...looking forward to seeing the beautiful outside world all the reviewers spoke of...

instead what i see is the ugliest distant textures in a videogame...ever. I mean Pitfall for atari's background looked better.....yeah solid green i know...but these textures even though multicolord...are so feebly done so it is insulting. How is that...I am in a forest with tons and tons of leaves and grass all individually moving...yet in the distance...i see the same textures that appeared in mario64? So instead of being awestruck...I was like... Awwwrrrrgh WTF! (as pirate like as i may have sounded I did pay 50$ for the game..)

I knew many things had gone gravely wrong at this point.

I could go into more about the graphics engine. How much it sucks....up resources...I mean...how the heck can a 7900gt superclock (in my case) or an x1900xt or 2 7900gtx's in SlI mode... (in someone else's case) be chugging along at 30fps? Doesn't it seem like.. visually the exact same thing could be rendered...and yet...not hog so many resources? wtf is this...morrowind all over again? The game doesn't seem to take advantage of dual core...even though they swear it does... I booted my machine up on a single core onry! no set affinity...only 1 cpu loaded at all...and I saw 0 performance difference between that and both cores being on...even with 10 npc's on the screen. Just what do they mean optimized for dual core? A 5% gain?

Also overclocking...you're CPU does nothing to benefit this game...at all. Overclocking your graphics card....if you want to see results you better be using dry ice and have that beast out on a cardboard box like you were trying to break the 3dmark05 record.

No levitation spell... um... hello?! earth to bethesda...add more spells dont take away old ones...

Walking through a forest...you will see deer! amazing eh? and wolves.....and more deer...and some wolves....and a deer....Can i get some diversity? oh snap a rat! thanks!..........This bothered me about morrowind. They say there are like 80 creatures in morrowind... but really...

there is an alit..and a blighted alit...and a corprus alit..and the mythical blind corprus blighted alit...that all look the same. so there are 10 creatures with 8 different names. bam 80! Why aren't there...oh...idk...15 types of creatures (and I dont mean...wolves and timber wolves...deer and greater deer...) in a forrest instead of 4 per forrest? If you are already fubaring system resources by encoding in a craptastically inefficient engine...might aswell go all out eh?

yeah they have wolves and deer and warthogs and mountain lions...and rats.....but will you ever see them in the same forrest? nope... wolves and deer in 1....warthogs and lions in another....it seems so boring. if i am riding through the woods...i and i hear the music that proclaims i am in combat...i dont want to spin around looking for the wolf...i want to turn...having no idea what is after me but hey i guess im hard to please? I mean is it so hard to put in dragons and dryads and evil ents or something..im not getting paid to come up with all the kinds of creatures to use...but i dont find it hard...you can always resort to...giant centipedes or something if you run out of creativity.

Guess how many types of monsters roam the watery depths? Alligators and Many kinds of fish...and eels...octopii...sharks...sharks with lazers on their heads....sea monkeys.... frogs..water sloths...beavers...hippopotamii!..anacondas.....er wait...i have gotten a little ahead of myself...
there are slaughterfish.
thats it.

1 water creature.


I hated cliffracers...because there is no reason for every bird in the sky to attack you at all times...even if they all look the exact same.... but there is also no reason to not have a single flying foe....
This is a new game... owls eagles bats (the imps are cool...the only flying fighting creature I have seen and when i say flying i mean 4 feet off the ground onry so i didnt count them...) condors...vultures... something.........anything...anyone...home bethesda?

Going into a cave...is like... oh...is it going to be goblins or skeletons and zombies? a ghost or 2? oh snap!!

why not all of them in different parts of the cave? maybe a dragon way in there...or a balrog...or something..to break the monotony.. (yeah atronarchs are cool...thumbs up...for 3 seconds...one for each type of atronarch) how about giant blind newts? anything...besides just mudcrabs rats and goblins...or ghosts zombies and skeletons...or vampires...vampires and vampires....

Dont get me wrong...I love this game...but the lack of diversity...in creatures in any given area make it.. more boring that it should be.

Hey look! a spear! zomg cool i can use a...oh no wait..its just another sword...eyes playing tricks on me...must stop playing....

3 types of weapons...blades blunts and bows. real clever on their part....yup...really alot of diversity...but i guess 1 type of weapon for each type of creature you will encounter in a given area.

Yeah the theft thing is totally stupid aswell....

also that you cannot go to "sleep" anywhere...you can only "wait" and need a bed to sleep in....

um wtf kind of open endedness is that?

How about cities that look different from each other? oh i know i know im in left feild. but castles...and townhouses...great...why not..treehouses? hobbit holes? um...pyramids? something different? mushroom houses like smurfs idk..something..to break the monotony....


im not touching radiant AI...those conversations are priceless....


anyway sorry if you read this..there really isnt much of a point. this game is 8.6/10 in my rating for what its worth..and thats really damn good. I mean...shakira is an 8.6/10 and I'd bone her... This game is well worth the money. Very enjoyable. And all the simple stupid flaws will be fixed with mods that will come out over the next few years..hell ill get started modding some additional creatures right now....



 

Powermoloch

Lifer
Jul 5, 2005
10,084
4
76
I'm a virgin the the Elder Scroll Series. But wow ~!!!! crazy man, I just installed it today and playing it @ 1280x1024 w/ x850xt agp on a sempr0n @_@. Gotta start getting home early lol
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Dorkenstein
Will my 850 XTPE run this game okay without overclocking it? Thanks.

What resolution do you play at?

i have a x850xt at stock speeds and it runs even outdoor fight scenes at 11x8 with no major slowdowns even with everything 'on' [except Shadows . . . i haven't tried them yet] and 'Hi' and 'Max' with really long draw distances [where i can't tell much difference between maximum] and sufficient fade times [for 'realism' for me]. . . . best of all, i can manage 4xAA+Bloom [no HDR option for x850xt]

What more could i asK of a $200 AGP card that O/C's past PE speeds?
:Q

:thumbsup:

ANYway, i don't post here much as i am playing Oblivion,. i think it is an eXceptional game and i am totally in awe of the depth of story and incredible attention paid to detail . . . plus it runs great on my Mid-range rig.

and this is from someone who - before KotOR - HATED rpgs and wouldn't touch Morrowind [or Diablo or HoMM, etc.].

oh yeah, i have found a few bugs . . . but generally it plays very well.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Bullhonkie

Golden Member
Sep 28, 2001
1,899
0
76
The 'OMFG Oblivion!!!11' elation period is over for me and I agree with a lot of the gripes posted. It definitely feels like they dumbed it down a bit because of the console factor. I've been an avid fan of the ES series and I've easily invested hundreds of hours into each of the previous games. Morrowind felt like two steps forward and one step back from Daggerfall - which was the pinnacle of the series as far as I'm concerned.

Little things like the UI only being one size, mouse speed being constant in the UI regardless of resolution, or rebinding keys for various status windows. Why can't I name my saved games without using a console command? In my huge list of ingredients, why can't I just hit N and have it skip to Nirnroot instead of having to scroll all the way through? Why can't I tag items to sell instead of selling things off one at a time? These things just reek of console-itis.

I was also disappointed to find the skills list further reduced, especially combat as QuinRiva mentioned. Simplified to blade, blunt, and hand to hand - with axes being blunt weapons (wtf?) and spears/polearms nowhere to be seen. Now a thief proficient with daggers is automatically as skilled with a huge claymore.

No more unarmored or medium armor, everything is either light or heavy armor. The power attack thing gets kind of repetitive after awhile. I'd rather have the old chop/slash/thrust attack types back.

What happened to pauldrons or different sized shields? Why can't I wear clothing over/under my armor? Where are thrown weapons or different bow types? It feels like they've lost the huge diversity of items that was a staple of the ES games.

It feels like there are fewer creatures this time around. What happened to the Guar, Scrib, and other strange creatures you'd find in the wilderness? Where is the reputation and interaction between various faction groups?

No free Z-axis movement makes the game world feel a bit smaller. No climbing. No levitate or jump spells. You can still jump but now it's more about jumping over holes or around traps. The world just feels smaller in general too. At first when I looked at it I thought, wow this is huge. But the more I play the more it seems the scale of the play world isn't really that big.

Lockpicking is completely trivialized once you figure out how it all works. I could probably go through the entire game and never need more than 20 picks. I've picked hard and very hard locks with 15 skill and my eyes closed.

Don't get me wrong though. It sounds like I'm disappointed with the game but I'm really not. My expectations from Bethesda are just so high because of what they've done in the past. I've loved every game in the ES series and this one is no exception.

The graphics engine is simply gorgeous, provided you can turn the settings up. I actually prefer the old dice-roll combat system but the new system seems to work pretty well in its own right and will please all of the action-RPG fans. I like how a fighter, archer, thief, mage, or any hybrid seem to play well. The alchemy, enchanting, and spellmaking systems are all still good - don't fix it if it ain't broke.

I already have over 50 play hours in this one and I haven't even touched the main storyline. It just feels like they had this really great sandbox of a game in Daggerfall, but that sandbox has gotten a bit smaller with each game since. Thankfully, a lot of these little things that I'm disappointed in can be changed with the construction set. Just feels like two steps forward and one step back again. Still an 'A game' in my book though and sure to keep me busy for many more hours.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
TES5 needs the UO skill system. That's all I've got to say. The Morrowind skill system was an absolute disaster and the Oblivion one is an improvement, but both systems pale in comparison to UO. First off, nobody should be able to max everything with a single character. UO understood this and had skill atrophy / point limits.

Imagine this scenario: You took blade and marksman, all of a sudden you find yourself leveling up too fast and your skills spread too thin. In Oblivion, you have to take drastic measures to ensure you stay viable against enemies, in UO you could just lock marksman, or even set it to atrophy while you worked on blade. This means that you could rebalance your character on the fly, basically fixing an otherwise broken character.

Also, they could balance the game much better on a fixed point system. IE: UO had something like 700 skill points for you to work with. So the strongest character in any UO build would still have 700 points. This makes it very easy to scale monsters, You've got the 100pt monster, 200, 300, etc.

I know it seems odd to think of using an MMORPG system in a single player RPG, but the UO system would fit so extremely perfect in this game and would fix a huge number of balance issues at the same time.

Also, I hope TES5 has cliffs, that seems to be the only thing missing from Oblivion. The deadliest falls just look like big hills.
 

Seeruk

Senior member
Nov 16, 2003
986
0
0
Originally posted by: DOACleric
Originally posted by: Heen05
So far its cool but ive got a few questions...

1)how can i make it so it stays light outside? i cant see anything besides my sword when its dark.
2)how can i make it lighter INSIDE? I cant see that well when im inside at all...and brightness isnt what im looking for...its just not lighted lol.
3)Whats a good way to increase FPS outside? I have max settings with HDR at 1024x768, but i get low fps outside and especially when there are enemies.
4)are there any cheats to make my guy go faster? i could only get thru morrowing when i used the go faster cheat, its too slow without it (for me).

thanks...id appreciate tweaks/cheats/tips to make those better.

Odd, I have the opposite problem - I feel its too *bright* outside at night. Everything seems to be draped in this heavy white light, yet there is no moon in the sky. Indoors darkness is perfect, but I wish it was a bit darker outside at night to make it a bit more frightening to travel in the wilderness.

Ummmmm duh.... calibrate your monitors properly

If you are crap at doing that with your eyes (like me) try a spyder2 hardware calibrator... worked wonders for me http://tf.erzz.com/2006/03/09/spyder-2-hardware-monitor-calibration/


 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,755
599
126
Personally I like almost all the changes from morrowind. I thought there were to many skills, and that their balance was piss poor in morrowind. The combat skills could be tweaked some I think, but block for instance is an important combat skill. It'd be cool if they added a "cavalry" skill in an expansion pack maybe that allowed some limited fight from horseback perhaps.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,755
599
126
I must be lucky though, my bugs thus far:

1) Missing text on a mouse over in a menu for controls.
2) Sometimes people's mouth stops moving to match their dialog (seems to happen mostly to people with gravelly or otherwise strange voice only.)
3) Saw an important NPC get stuck once, and then teleport to his destitation.
4) After playing the game for a long time, the framerate starts to deteriate. Its actually worse INSIDE then outside for me, which is odd. Closing the game and reopening it gets rid of this problem, and it only happens after like 3-4 hours of play.
5) One time and only one time, a castle in the distance appeared with all bright purple textures for a couple seconds. This rectified itself quickly.

I've had no CTDs, no lockups, etc. I'm not saying they won't happen, just that I haven't seen them. Neither has my wife....and believe me I'd hear about it since morrowind crashes usually left her swearing.
 

AdamSnow

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2002
5,736
0
76
Originally posted by: Painman
Originally posted by: AdamSnow
Hey guy's... so I think I may have a problem... I am a member of the Dark Brotherhood, and completed a few missions for them...
I just got invited to the Thieves guild as well, but they say no killing or I'll have to pay a fine...

Does this pose a problem? Do the two clash with each other?

Just don't kill a member of the Thieves Guild, and make sure you aren't in the middle of a Thieves Guild quest while doing a Dark Brotherhood one. The kill might count as a blood penalty in the TG quest.

Okay cool... I was afraid that I'd need to do pay up after each assassination in order to stay in the theives guild...
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: pontifex
i doubt it will do any good but i am emailing them about the damn stealing part of the game. stealing is pretty much worthless because you can only steal what you need. if you steal anything else its just garbage in your inventory because no vendors will buy it. apparently certain thieves guild members will buy it but i have yet to see one.

i guess it helps so you don't makea lot of money right away, but isn't that what a thief and stealing items is all about? risk vs. reward.

in a game where they made the world as pretty realistic (for a fantasy game) as they could, i still can't believe this thing goes through.

hahah

dude why don't you actually PLAY a bit before you write them about this. You'll save much embarassment.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
i am really glad Oblivion is "dumbed down" . . . i wouldn't touch it if it were like Morrowind.


i guess they are trying to appeal to the FPSer and the more 'casual' RPGer.

Works for me
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: MBrown
I need lockpicks and I have no way of getting out the sewers of the imperial city. Should I go to a previous save point or is there a way for me to get out of the sewer and get some lockpicks?

I'm sure by the time you read this you'll have figured it out.

You don't need any lockpicks to get out of the sewers. Look for another way around near the fallen emperor.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
*Potential Spoiler*

Money is not a problem for me in the game. I am sitting on around 15,000 gold right now at L13. The problem is finding a stupid vendor to purchase decent armor or weapons. Luckily I decided to hit the Arena at L9 and beat the grand champion and looted his great shield and sword. So, my shield + weapon are pretty decent, but now I just need some decent armor.

I was thinking of trying to lure a gold plate armor guard and slaughter him for his equipment, but I can't seem to get him alone. The regular guards are not that tuff, at least I don't have any problem taking them out. Basically block, slash, slash, block... repeat and they are dead in about 20 swings or so. The Arena fighters are very difficult though, well some more than others. At one point you have to face three people, that was the most difficult fight of the game.

Beating those tree type druid women are very difficult... She summons a bear and heals herself. What a bich to kill... I normally have to run from them when I see them as there is no way I could beat it. I was tempted to move the difficulty slider down, but I don't want to ruin the game. Maybe I will find a way to beat them.
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: larry89
How big is Oblivion? (gameplay wise and places to go and explore)

If you play WoW for instance..

Gameworld is about the size of 1.5 continents but is much more detailed. There are no facades, all buildings have real interiors. Game length could probably be completed in the same time you could hit lvl 40 in WoW if you were in a real hurry. However, there is enough meaningful content that you could run to 60 several times without any "grind" or repetitive content at all.
 

Hersh

Senior member
Oct 14, 1999
331
0
0
Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
*Potential Spoiler*

Money is not a problem for me in the game. I am sitting on around 15,000 gold right now at L13. The problem is finding a stupid vendor to purchase decent armor or weapons. Luckily I decided to hit the Arena at L9 and beat the grand champion and looted his great shield and sword. So, my shield + weapon are pretty decent, but now I just need some decent armor.

Didn't the arena guy say that you can't loot the fighter's items? I beat the champ a few days ago but I forgot how it went.

I think all the 'special' items are not in stores but in dungeons and caves that you go through during quests. (at least that is where I've been finding almost most of the stuff I am wearing). I just sneak into stores and take all their items and sell them just for the gold.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Originally posted by: alphaz
Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
*Potential Spoiler*

Money is not a problem for me in the game. I am sitting on around 15,000 gold right now at L13. The problem is finding a stupid vendor to purchase decent armor or weapons. Luckily I decided to hit the Arena at L9 and beat the grand champion and looted his great shield and sword. So, my shield + weapon are pretty decent, but now I just need some decent armor.

Didn't the arena guy say that you can't loot the fighter's items? I beat the champ a few days ago but I forgot how it went.

I think all the 'special' items are not in stores but in dungeons and caves that you go through during quests. (at least that is where I've been finding almost most of the stuff I am wearing). I just sneak into stores and take all their items and sell them just for the gold.

** Spoiler **

When you fight the grand champion, the rules are different. They will explain that to you... You become the champion and then you talk to another person to challenge the gray prince grand champion. You can then loot his corpse.

The Arena is easily one of the best parts the game... But heck, so is persuation mini game. It requires thought... Though still easy, it is always fun to do better and get the most out of each attempt.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,755
599
126
I don't get the persuasion minigame...there's 4 pieces of pie, and I pick the ones that make them happy...but I can't seem to get out of the game without picking all 4...the last of which usually leaves me worse off then I started.

Is there anyway to neutralize people without killing them?
 
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