Official Swiftboat Thread

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KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
WHy isn't Bush releasing all his records? He has records sealed in his Dads' Presidential library. I wonder why? Aren't you concerned about those records?

Why did Bush not take his drug test? Aren't you curious aboput that?

Can't you just give credit to him for at least being in Vietnam and risking his life without picking him apart because he has "94 pages" of unreleased documents? How many pages of unreleased documents are in the Bush Presidential Library and WHY are they there? The only reason that makes since to me is to protect Bush Sr. Hmmmm.

If Kerry were to release his records then how many other lies would he have to defend himself against?

You say Kerry shot a kid in the back. Prove it. You can't, can you. Talk is cheap and time is money. You want to keep asking the same old tired questions and play innocent, but you have no questions about Bush? I think it is obvious, at least to me, what your game is liitle miss innocent.

There is an entire thread about Bush. It is locked at the top. This is not a discussion about Bush.
Do you not read my posts? Or the VERY CLEAR tone of them. These are questions that have been raised. The far right have had their say, and I was hoping to get the Kerry supporters side.

I did not say that Kerry shot anyone in the back. I was not there, and don't know what happened. I was stating what the Kerry opposers were saying. I did not say Kerry did not deserve his medals, his awards or his citations. I said... well, it is right there... read it for yourself.

And you, sir, prove my point. "Don't ask questions, or you will be labeled and attacked." Ya know what... either read my posts for what they are or dont read them at all. I am asking questions... correct. I am, indeed. I am not accusing, or blaming or insinuating. I am asking questions. Questions that are only being answered by the Kerry haters. If you cannot answer the questions without attacks, accusations or deflection, then please dont respond to my posts.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Firstly, thank you for your tone in replying to me. It is hard to ask questions here, as it can get pretty hateful, real quick. I read and read and 90% of the times only find...you suck, no you suck, I hate you... by the same people, over and over, in most of the threads. Hard to find content, or have a discussion.
Couldn't agree more.

I was looking for an explaination to this. And while the source might be not to some people's liking, I choose it cause it was the first one... I have loads more links... I am interested in "Fake Claims Not Uncommon, One Award Three Citations, part of the article. The right side says it might be because he was looking to make himself look better in killing an injured fleeing kid in the back, while others claim it was cause he was looking to get the citation signed by higher up's in the military. Ok, that is the Kerry haters side. I would really like to be fair and listen to the other side.
Burkett?

This Burkett?

"He never got a day of treatment, he never spent a day in a medical facility," Burkett said. "These were all self-reported wounds, which you're going to hear from some swift boat guys in the future as to the nature of those wounds."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1111539/posts


Burkett is a liar.


I have never served in the military. I have three brothers who were not of age to go to war. My father fought two years combat in Korea, but never received any medals, and doesn't like talking about the war. So, in the interest of being open minded.... what is the answer to why it was done three times, when they say that is usually unheard of?

thanks...
Never been in the military either but my ex's father was in the Navy. Served aboard a light cruiser during the Korean War and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the man. Even he is now against Bush and he's actually a rather non-partisan person. Why was Kerry awarded the Purple Heart 3 times? Well, if he qualified and was submitted for one, then who's to say he didn't deserve one?
 

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
Never been in the military either but my ex's father was in the Navy. Served aboard a light cruiser during the Korean War and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the man. Even he is now against Bush and he's actually a rather non-partisan person. Why was Kerry awarded the Purple Heart 3 times? Well, if he qualified and was submitted for one, then who's to say he didn't deserve one?

My dad said that awful things happened....
Anyway, that is another thread topic, no!

As far as paperwork getting fvcked up... My father's discharge papers were incorrect, and he applied to have them corrected. After two years of trying to get them back, he was told them lost them and it was another year before they sent them out, and they left his rank off of them. So, mistakes I can understand.

I have never been gung ho on politics before. This election seems to be a major one. Might be my age, or the state the country is in and my awareness to it. Might be a 9/11 thing.. dunno. But I am trying to get informed on it all. It is hard, sometimes to know where to slot a lot of people... who is lying, who has an agenda... etc. In some cases it is very obvious, in others, not quite so. I know how Bush has fvcked up on so much, but want a full picture on Kerry before I make a decision. The Presidency in th is country has gone from bad to worse for a long time and I just want all sides. And, I prefer it to be without all the hate and nastiness.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
KarenMarie


If your intentions are as you say, I apologize. I would like to know why you have all these questions about Kerry's military records and seem to have none about Bush's military records?

BTW, as far as purple hearts go, I was talking to a retired Navy man just yesterday and he was in Vietnam in early 1964. At that time all the US servicemen stayed in hotels because they'r weren't too many servicemen there. He was standing in the lobby of the hotel when a bomb went off out in the street. He was aways away from it, but the concussion caused the windows to explode into the lobby area where he was. He recieved several little slivers of glass that had to be removed from his backside and recieved the purple heart. That is all it takes to get a purple heart and he said it was the standard practice.
 

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
KarenMarie


If your intentions are as you say, I apologize. I would like to know why you have all these questions about Kerry's military records and seem to have none about Bush's military records?

BTW, as far as purple hearts go, I was talking to a retired Navy man just yesterday and he was in Vietnam in early 1964. At that time all the US servicemen stayed in hotels because they'r weren't too many servicemen there. He was standing in the lobby of the hotel when a bomb went off out in the street. He was aways away from it, but the concussion caused the windows to explode into the lobby area where he was. He recieved several little slivers of glass that had to be removed from his backside and recieved the purple heart. That is all it takes to get a purple heart and he said it was the standard practice.

I would think it is obvious why there are not more questions about Bush's military records. It is a pretty short tale, no? But before I get off on blasting Bush, which I have done often in other posts... I will throw this out there....

No one is standing up and swearing they were alongside Bush. No one is standing up and swearing that they were there and he lied. They say, as far as I can tell... that no one remembers seeing him. But in any case... what Bush did, and did not do in the military is very easy to figure out. No big mystery there, I am sure you know what I mean.

Here is my stance...
There are major, serious accusations being raised. Major questions being asked. This is definately hurting Kerry. The Kerry haters have all kinds of answers, and explainations for what they call lies, mistakes..whatever. I have heard all the Kerry haters. I would like to hear from the Kerry supporters. But the majority of replies either deflect to blame Bush, when the issue if not about Bush, or just call anyone asking what really happened an azzhole, or Bush lover. I can assure you, I am neither. But, I will ask... if an undecided does have questions... and wants honest, calm answers... how should they go about asking? The hatred I have found in asking any questions, is not a flattering reflection on the Kerry supporters.

Apology accepted, no hard feelings!
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
KM,

All I can say in reply to the swiftboat veterans' claims is go back and read through this whole thread and see where several of them have been proven to be liars or, at the least, completely contradictory in statements made then and now. These are the leaders of this group. The other 250+ have all stated they weren't there for the incidents and never served with Kerry (just served in Vietnam at the same time...wow...big freakin' deal) and they are going off of the word of their "leaders".
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
They have some locked threads that have went into all the details of everything that the Swifties have alleged. I wish I would have made a folder and kept some of the links posted in the threads and the threads themselves. I'm new to this also, or I would have. I will go thru my deleted email notifacations and see if I can find the URL of a good thread for you to go through.

Like you I wanted to know the truth. I admit to being a Bush hater. I can't stand him and was supporting Kerry, but, like you, if Kerry was lying about everything as the Swifties were saying then I wanted to know. If it were true, I still couldn't vote for Bush, but I would vote like I did 4 years ago, for a third party. I didn't like either Bush or Gore, but Bush has messed things up so bad that I now wish I would have voted for Gore even though I can't stand him either, LOL.

In short, I think we need a new direction other then the one were getting from the current Administration. I hope you check out Kerry and decide to vote for him.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Yet another Swiftboat guy says they WERE under fire. He is not a Kerry supporter.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5835000/

Swift Boat crewman: Kerry boat took fire
Swift Boat crew member Robert Lambert, at his Eagle Point, Ore., home Wednesday, says he is no supporter of John Kerry, but backs up Kerry's version of the now-disputed events that led to Bronze Stars for both men in Vietnam.

As if we need any more evidence that Thurlow and his lowlife cohorts are lying.
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
LMAO. You know a little less than most DoubleL, don't flatter yourself!
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That's right umbrella39 just cause I was there why would I know anymore than all you, I am sure most of you were there so you know as much or more than I do and the one that said I sound like a swifty That is funny I was in the 2-14 Golden Dragons, All nam vets that speak out on Kerry is lying and the 5 that stand behind are telling the truth, LOL, Doesn't change anything I know Kerry is lying and nothing can change that
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: DoubleL
LMAO. You know a little less than most DoubleL, don't flatter yourself!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's right umbrella39 just cause I was there why would I know anymore than all you, I am sure most of you were there so you know as much or more than I do and the one that said I sound like a swifty That is funny I was in the 2-14 Golden Dragons, All nam vets that speak out on Kerry is lying and the 5 that stand behind are telling the truth, LOL, Doesn't change anything I know Kerry is lying and nothing can change that

Yes, you speal out smartly against Kerry, too bad you can't speak out intelligently.
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
1EZduzit I thought you were over that, Not going to get to me this time, God bless and have a good day
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
NEW ORLEANS Ralph Nader today charged that President Bush is using a group of Vietnam War veterans as "proxies" to smear Democrat John Kerry's war record.
Nader, an independent candidate for president, made his remarks about the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth after a speech to Tulane University law students.

He charged that Bush has used similar tactics in the past.

Wow, even Bush's favorite man Nader is slamming him.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: DoubleL
1EZduzit I thought you were over that, Not going to get to me this time, God bless and have a good day


Sorry DoubleL, but when it comes to Bush supporters, I'm in the "take no prisoners" mode. Especially ones who defend the Swiftboat allegations. I don't blame them for their opinions, just the way they obscure the truth and try to confuse the issue. It's been 30 years, way too long to be holding that kind of a grudge IMO.

You have anice day also.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison quit stating that Bush has released all his military documents. There are still a few that have either magically disappeared, or cannot be found.

Once you tell me which documents are missing, I will retract that statement. It does appears he has signed form 180 with means all documents have been released.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison quit stating that Bush has released all his military documents. There are still a few that have either magically disappeared, or cannot be found.

Once you tell me which documents are missing, I will retract that statement. It does appears he has signed form 180 with means all documents have been released.

Just because he's signed that form doesn't mean all documents were released. Remember the lost, found, burned, found again documents?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison quit stating that Bush has released all his military documents. There are still a few that have either magically disappeared, or cannot be found.

Once you tell me which documents are missing, I will retract that statement. It does appears he has signed form 180 with means all documents have been released.

Just because he's signed that form doesn't mean all documents were released. Remember the lost, found, burned, found again documents?


It means that all documents have been authorized to be released. Does this means the goverment knows where every document is after 30 years.....

Once again, what documents are missing.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Documents that would show where he was and what he was doing during that 6-month gap.

There are documents that states he moved to alabama for the senate campaign job and the training he received that year.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Documents that would show where he was and what he was doing during that 6-month gap.

There are documents that states he moved to alabama for the senate campaign job and the training he received that year.

And in the Bush sticky thread I posted an article showing that the 6-month gap is AFTER Bush worked on that Senate campaign.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
there was a nice op-ed in the NYT by Bob Herbert about this today.

Where Is The Shame?

Max Cleland, minus the three limbs he lost in Vietnam, showed up in his wheelchair outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Tex., on Wednesday to suggest that the president take the simple and decent step of condemning the slime that is being spread by Bush supporters against the war record of John Kerry.

He didn't get very far. The president was busy vacationing and had neither the time nor the inclination to meet with Mr. Cleland, a former U.S. senator who was himself the target of vicious, unconscionable attacks by the G.O.P. slime machine when he ran for re-election in Georgia in 2002.

Later, at a press conference under the hot Crawford sun, Mr. Cleland told reporters: "The question is, where is George Bush's honor? Where is his shame?"

Mr. Cleland reminded reporters of the scurrilous attacks by Bush forces against Senator John McCain in the Republican presidential primary in 2000 and said: "Keep in mind, this president has gone after three Vietnam veterans in four years. That's got to stop."

In what is surely the most important election of the last half-century, we seem trapped in the politics of the madhouse. What is incredible is that these attacks on men who served not just honorably, but heroically, are coming from a hawkish party that is controlled by an astonishing number of men who sprinted as far from the front lines as they could when they were of fighting age and their country was at war.

Among them:

Mr. Bush himself, the nation's commander in chief and the biggest hawk of all. He revels in the accouterments of combat. The story was somewhat different when he was 22 years old and eligible for combat himself. He managed to get into the cushy confines of the Texas Air National Guard at the height of the Vietnam War in 1968 - a year in which more than a half-million American troops were in the war zone and more than 14,000 were killed.

The story gets murky after that. We know the future president breezed off at some point to work on a political campaign in Alabama, skipped a required flight physical in 1972 and was suspended from flying. He supported the war in Vietnam but was never in any danger of being sent there.

Vice President Dick Cheney, another fierce administration hawk. Mr. Cheney asked for and received five deferments when he was eligible for the draft. He told senators at a confirmation hearing in 1989, "I had other priorities in the 60's than military service." Many draft-age Americans had similar priorities - getting an education, getting married and starting a family.

Attorney General John Ashcroft. He is reported to have said, "I would have served, if asked." But with the war raging in Vietnam, he received six student deferments and an "occupational deferment" based on the essential nature of a civilian job at Southwest Missouri State University - teaching business law to undergraduates.

Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defense secretary and a fanatical hawk on Iraq. He was not fanatical about Vietnam and escaped the draft with student deferments.

There are many others.

I would like to see at least some of these men, in keeping with their positions as leaders of a great nation, stand up and say it is wrong - just wrong - to try and reap a cheap political gain by defacing the sacrifices of individuals like John Kerry, John McCain and Max Cleland, who put themselves in mortal danger in the service of their country.

It's one thing to decline to serve. It's quite another to throw mud at those who did serve - or to remain silent as allies hurl the mud.

I've interviewed several soldiers and marines who have suffered grave wounds in Iraq, including the loss of limbs. A permanent place of honor should be reserved for them in the pantheon of American heroes. The idea that someone some years from now may trash their service for political gain is beyond disgusting.

George W. Bush ought to call off his dogs. The one thing we ought to be able to do in this hyperpoliticized era is rally in a bipartisan way behind those who have been willing to fight our wars.

The privileged classes no longer feel an obligation to put their lives - or their children's lives - on the line in defense of the nation. The very least they could do is insist that those who have put themselves in harm's way be treated with respect
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: DoubleL
LMAO. You know a little less than most DoubleL, don't flatter yourself!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's right umbrella39 just cause I was there why would I know anymore than all you, I am sure most of you were there so you know as much or more than I do and the one that said I sound like a swifty That is funny I was in the 2-14 Golden Dragons, All nam vets that speak out on Kerry is lying and the 5 that stand behind are telling the truth, LOL, Doesn't change anything I know Kerry is lying and nothing can change that

How do you know Kerry is lying?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Documents that would show where he was and what he was doing during that 6-month gap.

There are documents that states he moved to alabama for the senate campaign job and the training he received that year.

And in the Bush sticky thread I posted an article showing that the 6-month gap is AFTER Bush worked on that Senate campaign.

So even though he completed the required amount of training for that year, you want military documentation of his personal life? Is this what you are looking for?


What documents are you looking for. IF you cant name what you documents you are after, this is a non issue.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Originally posted by: charrison
There are documents that states he moved to alabama for the senate campaign job and the training he received that year.
But they only document his participation in the campaign, NOT his Air National Guard duty. All the ANG docs show is that he was not paid for flying planes.
 
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