Official Terri Schiavo Thread

[Riprorin]

Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

 

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

As far as I have read and heard, unfortunately it is not the case! It will be done by a local medical examiner. I wish those nationally recognized and reputable medical examiners would do the autopsy!

Edit: I just learned that the court has released videotapes of Terri Schiavo. They're apparently unedited versions. Does anyone know how I could view them?

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

As far as I have read and heard, unfortunately it is not the case! It will be done by a local medical examiner. I wish those nationally recognized and reputable medical examiners would do the autopsy!

that would happen only if the family is willing to pay for it.

 

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

As far as I have read and heard, unfortunately it is not the case! It will be done by a local medical examiner. I wish those nationally recognized and reputable medical examiners would do the autopsy!

that would happen only if the family is willing to pay for it.

Are you sure Michael Schiavo wouldn't object to it? I am sure there's at least one nationally reputable medical examiner that would even volunteer his time to examine the body.

I just learned that the probate court has released videotapes of Terri Schiavo. They're apparently unedited versions. Does anyone know how I could view them, other than waiting for the TV to show the videos (which would probably be edited by the time they're done)?

 

[HeaterCore]

Here's a question of logic: If Michael beat her, and tried to cover up the abuse by making sure she died, why did he wait 8 years to file with the court to have the tube removed? Why did he sponsor experimental treatments, and become a respiratory therapist?

-HC-

 

[imported_fatal]

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

As far as I have read and heard, unfortunately it is not the case! It will be done by a local medical examiner. I wish those nationally recognized and reputable medical examiners would do the autopsy!

Edit: I just learned that the court has released videotapes of Terri Schiavo. They're apparently unedited versions. Does anyone know how I could view them?

Who the same "nationally recognized and reputable medical examiners" that said she was not brain damaged ????!!!!! Ending what could never be considered as a "Life" was the humane thing to do. Her husband was the only person who chose to do the right thing

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

As far as I have read and heard, unfortunately it is not the case! It will be done by a local medical examiner. I wish those nationally recognized and reputable medical examiners would do the autopsy!

that would happen only if the family is willing to pay for it.

Are you sure Michael Schiavo wouldn't object to it? I am sure there's at least one nationally reputable medical examiner that would even volunteer his time to examine the body.

I just learned that the probate court has released videotapes of Terri Schiavo. They're apparently unedited versions. Does anyone know how I could view them, other than waiting for the TV to show the videos (which would probably be edited by the time they're done)?

They should bring in Dr. Baden.

 

[mithrandir2001]

I think it's time I read the copy of Jon Krakauer's "Under The Banner Of Heaven" that's been on my bookshelf the last several months.

 

[glorifiedg790]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Artificial nutrition and hydration are forms of life support. The Supreme Court has ruled it's identical to respiratory, cardiac, or renal support.

Let me give a quick synopsis of why Schiavo is not suffering:
We have two basic states that matter; wakefulness and consciousness. You must be awake to be conscious with the notable exception of dream states where varying levels of wakefulness and consciousness exist. Drugs (anesthetics, sedatives, hallucinogens, etc) can also manipulate wake and conscious states.

Schiavo is not in a coma. In a coma, a person lacks wakefulness and consciousness. These people require respiratory support b/c the respiratory center is located in the brainstem . . . same location as neural pathways that regulate wakefulness. They require nutritional/hydration support b/c the ability to feed requires coordinated activity between cranial nerves and the cerebral cortex . . . the cortex is required for consciousness. This means a person in a coma isn't hungry, isn't thirsty, and doesn't feel pain b/c all of those functions REQUIRE processing by the cerebral cortex. A healthy dose of ketamine (dissociative anesthetic) doesn't do anything for pain but you no longer care and won't remember. In essence, a drug induced form of altered consciousness.

Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state. In PVS, a person has wakefulness (sleep/wake cycles) but lacks consciousness. Accordingly, she sleeps, wakes up, blinks, may even moan but she is not conscious. She lacks the desire and ability to eat b/c she doesn't know she's hungry. The same is true for thirst. In fact, most if not all neuroscientists would say "she" doesn't know "she" exists.

If Schiavo was existing in a minimally conscious state (MCS); ie some tiny shred of evidence she has some degree of consciousness . . . doctors would manage support withdrawal by providing palliative care (ice chips from dry mouth/lips, analgesics for pain, sedatives for sleep). Pain is NEVER a necessary component of death. Further, the organ failure (renal followed by cardiac) that will cause her death doesn't cause pain. Regardless of what Rush believes, OxyContin was never designed to get people high . . . it's an excellent means of controlling pain. A healthy dose of a barbituate (phenobarbital - seizure medication), not only induces sleep but it can suppress respiration enough to hasten death . . . a good physician knows how to cook up a quality palliative care plan.

Another issue is locked-in syndrome. By definition, these people are functionally, if not fully, conscious. They just lack voluntary motor control with the notable exception of eye movements. There's no way a competent neurologist would miss LIS if that's the appropriate diagnosis for Schiavo. The prognosis would still be poor but it would be immoral to end her life by nutritional/hydration support.

I've been very disappointed by the alleged medical professionals that have misrepresented Schiavo's condition, prognosis, and process of her death. I have no expectation that laypersons like DeLay, the Schindlers, the two Bushes, Lou Sheldon) would understand what's going on. But even a mediocre physician should be in the ballpark.

EDIT: Apparently Schiavo's doctors are taking the easy way out. They are giving her morphine. Opiates are very good analgesics and decent sedatives but they do not suppress respiratory drive . . . which means it's very difficult to kill someone with appropriate doses. I'm personally opposed to using opiates instead of barbituates for end of life care but several busy body politicians/AGs and families have been known to prosecute/sue doctors that help people achieve a "peaceful" death.

Neurologists proved she was more functional than that

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
I think it's time I read the copy of Jon Krakauer's "Under The Banner Of Heaven" that's been on my bookshelf the last several months.

I think that "Litigation: A Spiritual Practice" by Michael Schivo's lawyer, George Felos, would be far more interesting. Here's an excerpt:

"As Mrs. Browning lay motionless before my gaze I suddenly heard a loud, deep moan and scream and wondered if the nursing home personnel heard it and would respond to the unfortunate resident. In the next moment as this cry of pain and torment continued I realized it was Mrs. Browning. I felt the midsection of my body open; I noticed a strange quality of light in the room. I sensed her soul in agony. As she screamed, I heard her say in confusion, 'Why am I still here? Why am I here?' My soul touched hers and in some way I communicated that she was still locked in her body. I promised I would do everything in my power to gain the release of her soul. With that, the screaming immediately stopped. I felt like I was back in my head again. The room resumed its normal appearance and Mrs. Browning as she had throughout this experience lay silent."

 

Originally posted by: HeaterCore
Here's a question of logic: If Michael beat her, and tried to cover up the abuse by making sure she died, why did he wait 8 years to file with the court to have the tube removed? Why did he sponsor experimental treatments, and become a respiratory therapist?

-HC-

Have you ever studied or had first-hand experience with abusive men? Do you think that they abuse their wives every single day? If they did, I suspect it would be easy for the wives to make the decision to leave. They in fact can be and are very sweet men before they show their monstrous behavior. They especially come off as the perfect and best man in the world to the public eye and even sometimes to their wives, while behind closed doors they abuse their spouses. The same man who batters his wife quickly comes to her rescue. He feels guilt after he's harmed her. And it is this guilt (demonstrated in his extraordinary care of her after he has hurt her) that usually convinces the woman that he does care about her, and it's all her fault or if only she'll just be patient. My point is, we may have a case of guilt having overtaken Michael. He felt bad and wanted to rescue her. As time passed, the feeling of guilt disappeared, and the urge to control resumed. It could possibly explain his failure--in spite of her long period in a coma--to heed to her alleged request that she never wanted to depend upon extraordinary and artificial support. He was also contemplating a malpractice lawsuit. And surely, letting her go at the time wouldn't help his malpractice case in how much the jury awarded him. He was originally awarded about $24 million (in addition to $250,000 for out of court settlement with another physician), but the amount was reduced because the jury found Terri to be partly responsible for her condition. He was also cooperative with her [naive, in my opinion] parents at the time. Her parents were eager to see their daughter rehabilitated. Do you think that he would have been able to convince the jury of malpractice if he couldn't get Terri's family members and friends to testify? Do you think they would have testified if he had requested a DNR before his civil litigation? Could you explain the coincidence that he posted a DNR (do not resuscitate) note 2 months after the malpractice settlement? The rehabilitation center objected to his request, which resulted in he removing his request.

I don't think that Michael physically abused his wife often. However, I do think that he verbally abused her for the most part. She was sensitive and shy by all accounts. She had the low esteem that makes women of such nature susceptible to abuse, whether verbal, physical, emotional or mental. It is no wonder this was her first love and first spouse. I do suspect that something took place on the night of Terri's collapse, and he lost it, going beyond verbal. I am not suggesting premeditated murder. I am suggesting something that occurred in the heat of passion. And it came to his realization what he had done before he let go. A possible scenario, in my opinion.... I could get into more of the circumstantial evidence as to why I am highly suspicious in this aspect, but I'll stop here.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Wow payback is a bitch...Michael Shiavo denied entry to the hospice for her parents and brother during the final moments.

I don't blame the guy considering the hatchet job that Terri's family, and the gang of religious right nutjobs surrounding them, have done to him.

This is far from over...expect a wrongful death lawsuit from Terri's family against Michael, the state, the federal government and everyone else they want to hold accountable for this "tragedy."

Interesting that no one is saying peep about her eating disorder, which put her in the coma to begin with.

Doesn't matter though...Terri's family just hit the litigation lottery...expect the made for TV movie by next week.

I hope they do well in their plight against that A hole of a so called husband...he deserves to be financially ruined by this affair...I can understand his desire to have her die so that he could shack up with somone new, but to deny the family the right to see their daughter in the last moments of her life is just wrong.

WTF??? What are they going to sue him for? Your assumptions are waaay off base.

The Schindler's have done nothing but make his life a living hell by outright lying about Michael Shiavo and through deception of the media. They should be ashamed of themselves and just put this entire sordid affair behind them.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: DearQT
He doesn't have to have anything to gain except self-satisfaction and control. How many abusive men have you heard of who had much to gain--except much to lose?

I'm glad the subject of keeping her alive is finally over, albeit the will of the so-called husband. And I do know that the average American will return to his/her business and forget Terri. However, I do hope that the few who care about our justice system will pursue this matter until a full investigation is made to answer the lingering questions.

What lingering questions? The only question I have is why Congress and the President got involved with this? The justicies handled this appropriately and justly. They made all the right decisions. I'm happy that Terri finally got her wish. Now she can R.I.P.

A whole lot! Frankly, I don't care about politics. I wasn't even adamant about keeping her alive as I was disturbed--and I still am--about what led to her collapse. And I do not think that the questions should disappear now that she has died.

There are two competing theories as to what led to the whole saga in the first place. Michael has given different versions of the events of the first day of Terri's collapse. Even his malpractice attorney couldn't get his story straight on FOX with Greta. One theory and purported by the general public based on what the media has spouted is that she suffered from bulimia, which led to low potassium and a "heart attack" as a result of the low potassium.

But in the first place, she did not have a heart attack. In fact, her medical discharge summary shows that she didn't. However, she did have a cardiac arrest. The question then is, what caused her cardiac arrest? There are many possibilities besides heart attack. Could low potassium have caused it? Well, that in of itself is disputed in the medical field. Nonetheless, it is very unlikely that low potassium would have caused it. For even amongst those who believe it could be due to low potassium, it is usually with a patient who had heart problem in the first place! By all indications, she did not have a heart problem. As Dr. Michael Baden said, it is much more common for high potassium to lead to such problem than it is for low potassium. And it is hard for me to believe that she would suddenly experience such if it was due to low potassium without something having happened earlier to signal warning. The police were routed to a homicide scene per the request of the paramedics. I wonder if the many medicines that the police found in her house, of which only two had her name, could suggest anything. The police concluded that there was no head trauma. However, the medical summary reveals a stiff neck, muscles and a bone scan, months later, revealed "a history of trauma".

Some of you will say that the allegations have been proven by the court to be false. That would be an incorrect statement. The probate judge does not prosecute criminal cases. And even when request was made for suspension of ruling until the bone scan result could be investigated, the judge dismissed it without explanation of why it was irrelevant to "Theresa Marie Schiavo in 2002 and the Mandate of the Second District Court of Appeal". The question is, why didn't the DA launch an investigation? Of course his response to the letter was that the circumstantial evidences such as Michael's immediate DNR note upon winning the malpractice case was irrelevant because Michael was free to change his mind. Then for the forensic evidence, he just dismissed it because it had exceeded the statute of limitation. It would be a travesty of justice thrice and more if this matter isn't further investigated. I don't care if the statute of limitation had run out. In other cases, the DAs investigated cases even though they could do nothing to prosecute the cases. And again, I say, if a full investigation exonerates everyone, then so be it. But do the damn thing! I hope that it's much easier on the family now that she's gone to focus on what led to her collapse. I wonder where all of the people who witnessed the event on that night and all of those who actually took care of her for months are!

Well, from what I've heard the autopsy will reveal almost nothing about what caused her condition so you might as well let it go and just accept the rulings and that the parties involved are being truthful. To do otherwise would be pointless.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: joshw10

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that Terri is going to live.

you were wrong.

finally this can be over.

Yup, I guess I was. I thought that the America I live in was better than this.

We've just witnessed a judicial homicide.

How do you figure? The courts ruled that Terri's wishes be kept.

You want activist judges when it suits you? You want the gov't to trample the US Constitution to suit your self-serving, holier-than-thou agenda? Well, every court that's heard this case has sent a resounding F-U to arrogant blowhards like yourself.


BTW, where was your outrage when that black baby was disconnected from life support *against* the parents' wishes?

HEAR HEAR! Well said!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Who's doing the autopsy?

I hope it's being done by independent, out-of-state doctors.

I heard she is being flown up to PA where her body will be prepared for creamation. The autopsy will be conducted there.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Have Rip & QT do the autopsy, since they have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they are the 'experts' on the subjecy matter.

Rip & his chainsaw & QT with the hatchet should be able to do it themselves easily.

 

[Ballsack]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Have Rip & QT do the autopsy, since they have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they are the 'experts' on the subjecy matter.

Rip & his chainsaw & QT with the hatchet should be able to do it themselves easily.

Seriously, I think they should have Dr. William Hammesfahr do the autopsy; he's pretty prestigious, having been nominated for the Nobel Prize and all...

BALLSACK

 

[razor2025]

Why are we still arguing about whether the husband or the family are "wrong"? That is superficial matter. This stupid case has brought forth the ugly thruth of media, stupidity of our population, and over-arching hand of politics. The media did its best job to sensationalize this story and played out its "drama" card again. Our idiotic population gobbled up this story like crack, and believed blindingly on whichever sided fit their value/moral (whatever). Politician gained yet another chance to politicizing this crap case. Jesse Jackson should be kicked in the balls. Why is that idiot even allowed in front of TV?

I think people who are still arguing that Terry should've been kept alive indifinitely have played right into Schindler Family's plan. By manipulating the story-hungry media into covering their story, they had thrown this entire case into the court of public opinion. Considering how our country has slowly turned toward the conservative right and political power has leaned towards the side of fun-da-MENTALs, the case became national sensation and Schindler gained immense support. What I've learned from this story and the effects of it, is that people in the US are getting stupider, and I probably want a living will just to avoid becoming Terry #2.

 

[GoPackGo]

If you starved a dog to death..you would go to jail.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

One thing I've not understood in the comparative brain scan picture is why are the 2 scans so very different? I don't mean the missing areas or whatever, I mean the quality and appearance of the scans.. you'd think if they were going to compare properly they would be of similar quality and color. It's like comparing a photo to a xerox copy of something.

 

[wiin]

I heard she is being flown up to PA where her body will be prepared for creamation. The autopsy will be conducted there.

Michael Will Hide Where Terri Schiavo is Buried From Family

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Originally posted by: wiin

I heard she is being flown up to PA where her body will be prepared for creamation. The autopsy will be conducted there.

Michael Will Hide Where Terri Schiavo is Buried From Family

If I'm going to buy that he pursued the death of Terri Schiavo with nothing but the best of intent on carrying out his wife's wishes, then his job should be over now. Anything he does in the way of preventing a proper funeral or burial just seems cruel to her parents/family. Why should he care? He has a new quasi-wife and kids even, move on already.

I'm not talking about the the legality of it, since he was married to her apparently that means he owns her so can dispose of his property in the manner he sees fit. I'm talking about just being a semi-decent person for a brief moment and maybe helping her parents come to terms with their daughter's death a way they are more familiar and comfortable with.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
If you starved a dog to death..you would go to jail.

If you put a feeding tube in that same dog and kept him alive for 15 years, they would come take you away in the padded white truck. What is your point?

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
If you starved a dog to death..you would go to jail.

If you put a feeding tube in that same dog and kept him alive for 15 years, they would come take you away in the padded white truck. What is your point?

How many years does a parent have to feed its child before it can feed itself?

For some it doesnt happen until after college.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Yo_Ma-Ma

Originally posted by: wiin

I heard she is being flown up to PA where her body will be prepared for creamation. The autopsy will be conducted there.

Michael Will Hide Where Terri Schiavo is Buried From Family

If I'm going to buy that he pursued the death of Terri Schiavo with nothing but the best of intent on carrying out his wife's wishes, then his job should be over now. Anything he does in the way of preventing a proper funeral or burial just seems cruel to her parents/family. Why should he care? He has a new quasi-wife and kids even, move on already.

I'm not talking about the the legality of it, since he was married to her apparently that means he owns her so can dispose of his property in the manner he sees fit. I'm talking about just being a semi-decent person for a brief moment and maybe helping her parents come to terms with their daughter's death a way they are more familiar and comfortable with.

This proves he is an a55hole. I think he is a monster. He will get his in the end.