Official Terri Schiavo Thread

[Yo Ma Ma]

This morning I heard that upon Terri Schiavo's death her parents wish for her to have some sort of traditional Catholic arrangement, and be buried, whereas her husband is insisting on cremation.

Michael Schiavo?s lawyer, George Felos, said a judge had already backed the cremation plan. "My client will scrupulously follow the court order," he said. "Her ashes will be interred in the Schiavo family plot in Pennsylvania, where Terri and Michael grew up."

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=327962005

Even if Michael Schiavo was sincere in not wanting Terri to suffer in a PVS, what could be the purpose of his preventing her from a burial and entombment following her religious background?

 

[Regs]

This stuff happens everyday and in every hospital. Except in this case the parents of that poor girl used the media as a tool to have overwhelming public support so they can influence the higher courts to take their case into consideration. And of course, everybody drops to their knees and worships the media. I mean...she was brain dead for over 7 years before we heard one word about anything. Get a clue and stop being so god damn naive!

Now all I hear is " Schiavo" this, " Schiavo" that. While her husband is receiving death threats and news crews stampede his front lawn.

People are not helping the situation. Let nature take it's course, or if you hold faith, let god take her home.

Stop trying to argue every indifference about her medical state or her husbands values, morals, or obligations. It's their life.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Yo_Ma-Ma
This morning I heard that upon Terri Schiavo's death her parents wish for her to have some sort of traditional Catholic arrangement, and be buried, whereas her husband is insisting on cremation.

Michael Schiavo?s lawyer, George Felos, said a judge had already backed the cremation plan. "My client will scrupulously follow the court order," he said. "Her ashes will be interred in the Schiavo family plot in Pennsylvania, where Terri and Michael grew up."

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=327962005

Even if Michael Schiavo was sincere in not wanting Terri to suffer in a PVS, what could be the purpose of his preventing her from a burial and entombment following her religious background?

The article doesn't say why he chose cremation or under what circumstances the judged backed it. That would be important to know. Personally I would not want a funeral with the family (and media and protestors) given the accusations/allegations they have leveled on him (nor do I believe in the spiritual benefits or necessity of a religious funeral as well tho).

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Yo_Ma-Ma
This morning I heard that upon Terri Schiavo's death her parents wish for her to have some sort of traditional Catholic arrangement, and be buried, whereas her husband is insisting on cremation.

Michael Schiavo?s lawyer, George Felos, said a judge had already backed the cremation plan. "My client will scrupulously follow the court order," he said. "Her ashes will be interred in the Schiavo family plot in Pennsylvania, where Terri and Michael grew up."

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=327962005

Even if Michael Schiavo was sincere in not wanting Terri to suffer in a PVS, what could be the purpose of his preventing her from a burial and entombment following her religious background?

Her PARENT'S religious background. Marriage shoud stand for something. Once again, WHY is the public at large involved in this decision anyway???? This country is so screwed up it's pathetic.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It's highly unlikely that Terri Schiavo exists in a state other than PVS. There's no doubt what her husband wants and there's no doubt what the courts have concluded. But medical science doesn't have Supreme Courts. We are always beholden to the limits of our technology and our expertise. If I was caring for Terri Schiavo, I would have recommended barbituates if the spouse wanted a peaceful death that might be hastened. If I was afraid of activist politicians/judges, I would recommend opiates. Even if I thoroughly believed she was PVS, I would still recommend use of opiate analgesics.

1. so even you cannot make a definitive statement on the matter (Personally I do feel that she is braindead) but just wondering how you can make hard and fast statements about her not feeling pain and then waffle on this one.

2. With regards to her husband of couse he wants her out of the picture, he is already shacked up with another woman, has kids and is jumping at the chance to marry....not that there is anything wrong with that but I still cannot for the life of me understand why he didn't just divorce Terri especially after seeing how her parents wanted to keep her alive...

Also what motivates him to deny her communion, and also deny her parents the right of taking photos of her as she currently is...since when did husbands get so much control...

I often wonder if his being a controlling husband/overbearing is what led her to her eating disorder?

It was Mr. Schiavo who made a big ordeal out of this by not divorcing his wife...had he done that and moved on with his life then we wouldn't be hearing about this in the news...end of story.

If everything you said was true (which it isn't), why in the hell is it your business?

LOL. The mass media has done a fine job of spewing the lies and misinformation the Schindler side has shat out there.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Yo_Ma-Ma
This morning I heard that upon Terri Schiavo's death her parents wish for her to have some sort of traditional Catholic arrangement, and be buried, whereas her husband is insisting on cremation.

Michael Schiavo?s lawyer, George Felos, said a judge had already backed the cremation plan. "My client will scrupulously follow the court order," he said. "Her ashes will be interred in the Schiavo family plot in Pennsylvania, where Terri and Michael grew up."

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=327962005

Even if Michael Schiavo was sincere in not wanting Terri to suffer in a PVS, what could be the purpose of his preventing her from a burial and entombment following her religious background?

Her PARENT'S religious background. Marriage shoud stand for something. Once again, WHY is the public at large involved in this decision anyway???? This country is so screwed up it's pathetic.

The public at large is discussing the case because it has been made so public, but in reality have no effect on the outcome that I can see, they are not involved in any legal decision to date.

I'm not saying where she is burned or buried will make any real difference to her, but obviously it does to her parents, and shouldn't to her husband, since he has clearly moved on. He stated she wouldn't wish to live like she has been, but why should he care what happens to her dead body?

 

All of you pulling this political BS, where did you stand during the controversy of Elian Gonzalez? Did you condemn the Clinton administration and attorney general for defying court order and sending in federal law enforcement to capture Elian? Did you condemn him for interfering in family business? The hypocrisy here perplexes me. I will tell you my position at the time: I thought that it was a justified action because the government had no right interfering with the authority of a parent on the basis of the marketing or government system of his country of origin. It was a ridiculous intervention of the government to question the right of a parent to raise his child in his native country, which he saw fit. The same is my stance here. The man who claims to be her spouse has breached the contract of legal marriage, yet the court refused to remove his authority as a guardian. The court failed to see the conflict of interest here. This is sick and ridiculous. If there's any moment in my life that I ever wished that I were a criminal prosecutor as opposed to a defense attorney that I have always leaned toward, it is in this case. The inconsistencies in the whole evidence, the incompetence of Florida law enforcement and all of that makes me so angry. And if there's any moment that I was so angry to the extent of feeling resentment toward men, it is in this case. I have calmed down a bit, but I am still upset. I am also upset with the parents for being too naive to know what was going on in their daughter's life with her sad choice of spouse. If that were my child, the man and I would go to grave together before I sat there and watched that crap happen to my daughter. I wish I were a criminal prosecutor to investigate this whole matter and press for justice--even if I stood to lose my career. Let this be a motivation....

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Why on earth would the parents want to take pictures of their daughter dying? Are they planning on suing Mr. Shiavo over this when she's dead? These people are nuts.

I seriously hope that the parents do proceed in suing Mr. Shiavo....not for his insisting that the feeding tube be removed, but for not allowing for her to recieve communion and now allowing her parents to take photos...

again, he should have divorced her long ago, the only motivation he has now is that he wants to remarry.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Regs
This stuff happens everyday and in every hospital. Except in this case the parents of that poor girl used the media as a tool to have overwhelming public support so they can influence the higher courts to take their case into consideration. And of course, everybody drops to their knees and worships the media. I mean...she was brain dead for over 7 years before we heard one word about anything. Get a clue and stop being so god damn naive!

Now all I hear is " Schiavo" this, " Schiavo" that. While her husband is receiving death threats and news crews stampede his front lawn.

People are not helping the situation. Let nature take it's course, or if you hold faith, let god take her home.

Stop trying to argue every indifference about her medical state or her husbands values, morals, or obligations. It's their life.

Put blame where blame is due....

While I think the parents were wrong for wanting to prolong her life I think the husband is a class A dirtbag....

Finally motivated to "do something" about his wife because he shacks up, has two bastard children and feels like he wants to marry again....

Denies parents the opportunity to give their daughter one last holy communion before she dies

Denies parents the right to photograh their daughter before she dies

And insists that she be cremated and then buried with his parents instead of getting a proper burial with her family where she would be wanted the most....

 

[Miramonti]

Some Terri Schiavo forms, state by state

 

[sapiens74]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
http://www.onthemedia.org/
False Dichotomy
Anybody watching TV coverage of the Terri Schiavo legal wrangling this week was most likely left with the impression of a nation divided down the middle over what should be done. But that picture doesn't match public opinion poll data, which suggest an overwhelming majority of Americans side with Shiavo's husband. Brooke talks to Salon senior writer Eric Boehlert about why news organizations are ignoring their own research.

streaming audio

If every single person was for pulling the plug, I have the right to stand for what I believe

If you had taken a polls on various civil rights issues throughout the history of the US, then slavery would be legal, abortion would be illegal and no Civil Rigths Act would have been passed.

Like this last election, the majority can and does get it wrong

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: DearQT
All of you pulling this political BS, where did you stand during the controversy of Elian Gonzalez? Did you condemn the Clinton administration and attorney general for defying court order and sending in federal law enforcement to capture Elian? Did you condemn him for interfering in family business? The hypocrisy here perplexes me.

Before you go jumping to conlcusions, realize that I thought the Big G was overstepping it's bounds in the Elian case as well. Some of us ARE for limited government overall, not just limited the ways we want, believe it or not.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Like this last election, the majority can and does get it wrong

Yes, but what you fail to mention is that it also rules. That is the way this society is constructed.

 

[sapiens74]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Like this last election, the majority can and does get it wrong

Yes, but what you fail to mention is that it also rules. That is the way this society is constructed.

What I was referring too is the fact the some will say the majority supports her right to die, then balks when the majority voted for W.

You cannot consider the majority of the country idiots when it comes to the election then assume they are smart enough to make this call.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: sapiens74

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Like this last election, the majority can and does get it wrong

Yes, but what you fail to mention is that it also rules. That is the way this society is constructed.

What I was referring too is the fact the some will say the majority supports her right to die, then balks when the majority voted for W.

You cannot consider the majority of the country idiots when it comes to the election then assume they are smart enough to make this call.

Well, it's a difficult situation. Let's not forget that the majority that elected W was the majority of ~33% of the nation. In essence, one could theorize that 17% of the nation decided who the leader would be. In abstract, that wouldn't be entirely inaccurate. Whether or not that represented the will of the other 66% can be and is regularly debated.

Now, that aside, majority to me means next to nothing in this case. While I am comforted that the majority thinks the government/media should have kept their noses out of this issue, this isn't something that's decided by a popular election. This case was decided as such things are - by the process of law.

And that process of law was put in place by the majority, albeit indirectly.

The point underlying all this, and I guess what I'm getting at, is that if there is a process that we've all agreed upon to decide a conflict, then let that decision stand. Otherwise, why bother with the process? And we have all agreed on the process here, that process being the judicial system.

Some may point out that not all agree with the judiciary, but that's technically unrelated. They don't have a problem with the process, they have a problem with the decision it reached. You wouldn't be hearing much about "Judicial Tyranny" right now if the courts had sided with the Schindlers.

 

[sapiens74]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: sapiens74

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Like this last election, the majority can and does get it wrong

Yes, but what you fail to mention is that it also rules. That is the way this society is constructed.

What I was referring too is the fact the some will say the majority supports her right to die, then balks when the majority voted for W.

You cannot consider the majority of the country idiots when it comes to the election then assume they are smart enough to make this call.

Well, it's a difficult situation. Let's not forget that the majority that elected W was the majority of ~33% of the nation. In essence, one could theorize that 17% of the nation decided who the leader would be. In abstract, that wouldn't be entirely inaccurate. Whether or not that represented the will of the other 66% can be and is regularly debated.

Now, that aside, majority to me means next to nothing in this case. While I am comforted that the majority thinks the government/media should have kept their noses out of this issue, this isn't something that's decided by a popular election. This case was decided as such things are - by the process of law.

And that process of law was put in place by the majority, albeit indirectly.

The point underlying all this, and I guess what I'm getting at, is that if there is a process that we've all agreed upon to decide a conflict, then let that decision stand. Otherwise, why bother with the process? And we have all agreed on the process here, that process being the judicial system.

Some may point out that not all agree with the judiciary, but that's technically unrelated. They don't have a problem with the process, they have a problem with the decision it reached. You wouldn't be hearing much about "Judicial Tyranny" right now if the courts had sided with the Schindlers.

There is the actual law and then the "spirit" of the law

While everything on paper seems lawful, Micheal's actions seem a bit curious at the least.

this is an anomoly anyway. Her case is very rare, as there are suspicions of the husband's motives.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
There is the actual law and then the "spirit" of the law

While everything on paper seems lawful, Micheal's actions seem a bit curious at the least.

this is an anomoly anyway. Her case is very rare, as there are suspicions of the husband's motives.

This is the type of thing I gloss over because frankly, it's just not that important a point.

Every system is going to have loopholes, and a select few will always exploit them. I am not saying EITHER party is guilty of that in this case, just that "back doors" are impossible to escape.

The question that matters is whether or not there's more harm than foul. I think it's obvious that our judicial system's pros outweigh it's cons, and thus I really have a hard time taking seriously all these people who want to question "rule of law". I don't think their ideas nor ambitions are grounded in reality.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Why on earth would the parents want to take pictures of their daughter dying? Are they planning on suing Mr. Shiavo over this when she's dead? These people are nuts.

I seriously hope that the parents do proceed in suing Mr. Shiavo....not for his insisting that the feeding tube be removed, but for not allowing for her to recieve communion and now allowing her parents to take photos...

again, he should have divorced her long ago, the only motivation he has now is that he wants to remarry.

Maybe communion is different for Catholics than other Christian denominations but . . . it's supposed to be a "willful" act. You cannot take the "body" and "blood" of Christ if you have no concept of what it means. Personally, I think most Christian rites are bunch of BS but that's another issue altogether.

Communion rules

unabridged rules of communion . . . Russian orthodox version . . .geez

The Pope on Communion rules

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Why on earth would the parents want to take pictures of their daughter dying? Are they planning on suing Mr. Shiavo over this when she's dead? These people are nuts.

I seriously hope that the parents do proceed in suing Mr. Shiavo....not for his insisting that the feeding tube be removed, but for not allowing for her to recieve communion and now allowing her parents to take photos...

again, he should have divorced her long ago, the only motivation he has now is that he wants to remarry.

I read she did take communion on Sunday, like a drop of wine + a crumb, or something like that. Maybe it was bad info.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Regs
This stuff happens everyday and in every hospital. Except in this case the parents of that poor girl used the media as a tool to have overwhelming public support so they can influence the higher courts to take their case into consideration. And of course, everybody drops to their knees and worships the media. I mean...she was brain dead for over 7 years before we heard one word about anything. Get a clue and stop being so god damn naive!

Now all I hear is " Schiavo" this, " Schiavo" that. While her husband is receiving death threats and news crews stampede his front lawn.

People are not helping the situation. Let nature take it's course, or if you hold faith, let god take her home.

Stop trying to argue every indifference about her medical state or her husbands values, morals, or obligations. It's their life.

Put blame where blame is due....

While I think the parents were wrong for wanting to prolong her life I think the husband is a class A dirtbag....

Finally motivated to "do something" about his wife because he shacks up, has two bastard children and feels like he wants to marry again....

Denies parents the opportunity to give their daughter one last holy communion before she dies

Denies parents the right to photograh their daughter before she dies

And insists that she be cremated and then buried with his parents instead of getting a proper burial with her family where she would be wanted the most....

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. I wanted to give Michael Schiavo the benefit of the doubt wrt wanting to pull the plug for his own reasons vs. any wishes uttered by the young and healthy Terri Schindler-Schiavo, but with the burial thing, that is for no ones benefit but his own.

 

[sapiens74]

[/quote]Maybe communion is different for Catholics than other Christian denominations but . . . it's supposed to be a "willful" act. You cannot take the "body" and "blood" of Christ if you have no concept of what it means. Personally, I think most Christian rites are bunch of BS but that's another issue altogether.

Communion rules

unabridged rules of communion . . . Russian orthodox version . . .geez

The Pope on Communion rules[/quote]


She is taking communion unknowingly as well as being starved to death unknowingly.

This speaks to the ignorance of our medical professions.

It's not that she cannot be saved..... It just means our doctors don't know how.

As soon as we realize that medicine is not an exact science as our knowledge has not evolved to the point of truly understanding how the body works, then we will be better off.

Maybe in a few millienia we will be able to cure, and fix problems instead of condeming people to death from ignorance.

 

[preCRT]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
This speaks to the ignorance of our medical professions.

It's not that she cannot be saved..... It just means our doctors don't know how.

As soon as we realize that medicine is not an exact science as our knowledge has not evolved to the point of truly understanding how the body works, then we will be better off.

Maybe in a few millienia we will be able to cure, and fix problems instead of condeming people to death from ignorance.

It isn't the ignorance of our medical professionals, the ignorance exists in the politicians who think they know more than our medical professionals. The ignorance and complete arrogance of those same politicians who butt their noses into what should remain private family business. This is especially repulsive in the case of Jeb Bush, who can't even keep his crackhead druggie daughter from snorting or shooting up.


Now just who was the president who cut Medicaid, which pays for the care of people whose plugs he is against pulling?

And who was the president who has tried to stymie stem cell research, the research which someday may actually find the miraculous cure for those who may be forced into a perpetual turnip-like state because of the intervention of certain politicians?

 

[sapiens74]

Originally posted by: preCRT

Originally posted by: sapiens74
This speaks to the ignorance of our medical professions.

It's not that she cannot be saved..... It just means our doctors don't know how.

As soon as we realize that medicine is not an exact science as our knowledge has not evolved to the point of truly understanding how the body works, then we will be better off.

Maybe in a few millienia we will be able to cure, and fix problems instead of condeming people to death from ignorance.

It isn't the ignorance of our medical professionals, the ignorance exists in the politicians who think they know more than our medical professionals. The ignorance and complete arrogance of those same politicians who butt their noses into what should remain private family business. This is especially repulsive in the case of Jeb Bush, who can't even keep his crackhead druggie daughter from snorting or shooting up.


Now just who was the president who cut Medicaid, which pays for the care of people whose plugs he is against pulling?

And who was the president who has tried to stymie stem cell research, the research which someday may actually find the miraculous cure for those who may be forced into a perpetual turnip-like state because of the intervention of certain politicians?

I'm not defending either Bush as this should have been a private matter. However our "professionals" cause over 100,000 American deaths a year in medical mistakes. My only point is she should have had the best "experts" at least give her a once over before starving her to death.

In reality, there are losers and hypocrites all around.

 

[preCRT]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
I'm not defending either Bush as this should have been a private matter. However our "professionals" cause over 100,000 American deaths a year in medical mistakes. My only point is she should have had the best "experts" at least give her a once over before starving her to death.

In reality, there are losers and hypocrites all around.

She was seen by a ton of 'experts', she was even taken to CA in search of a 'cure'.

There was never much hope, and 10 years ago her husband finally realized it fter spending years seeking medical help for Terri. The true shame is that her parents and siblings never could accept nor face the reality of the situation, the same situation facing thousands of families every day in this country.

 

[Riprorin]

Fyi. Michael Schiavo should be investigated. E-mail the Coroner's Office and insist on an autopsy so we can find out the truth.


If Terri ultimately dies, it is the publically stated intention of Michael Schiavo to have her immediately cremated. The Pinellas County Medical Examiner's office (District 6) would need to certify such cremation.

review the policy Link

The Medical Examiner should NOT do so if there is a question about the proximate cause of her death (or face adverse licensing action in Florida).

For future reference, though I hope it need not be used any time soon, the email for the Coroner's office is mailto:wpellan@co.pinellas.fl.us.

Should Terri die, everyone must immediately demand a waiver of certification for cremation and an investigation, including autopsy to determine proximate (and immediate) cause of death. Since Dr. Baden (forensic pathologist) believes the injuries are not consistent with Michael Schiavo's story, an autopsy would perhaps develop evidence that would put Michael Schiavo behind bars, and perhaps "retire" the miserable excuse of a judge, George Greer.

Link