Official Terri Schiavo Thread

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Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: conjur
Hannity is about 1,000x worse than Rather ever was. Hannity is the most dishonest, disingenous, hate-speech-filled prick that's ever been handed a radio show (well, next to Michael Savage)

I don't give a damn if he's out there spewing hate speech, we have liberals and conservatives alike engaged in that *daily*. What I DO loathe is his blatant dishonesty, his FRAUDULENT selling of that asshat as a "nobel prize nominee" (which he wasn't) and his claiming that Schiavo was a "living, vibrant woman." Yeah, she was about as vibrant as your average *mushroom*, for chrissakes.

As for being 1,000x worse, a dishonest clod posing as an objective Journalist is STILL a fraud no matter what side he's on. Both were shoveling sh1t by the truckfull and both deserve to be OUT of the limelight.

Jason
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
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Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric.


If they ditch the rhetoric, what do they have left? Not much.

Note the differences in this case:

Opposition to Mike Schiavo: Rhetoric, lots of talk about issues that are not directly related such as "morals" and "right/wrong".

Supporters of Mike Schiavo: No rhetorics, just a lot of pointing at the law and the facts that support their position.


I say proof is in the pudding.
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun

Ah, OK, so you're saying that dishonesty in the press is OK if they're on your side, but the opposition are rat bastards if they do it?

I'm not so forgiving: I expect JOURNALISM to be fact-driven, report on VERIFIED, EMPIRICAL data to the best extent possible. I apply the same standard whether the alleged Journalism comes from Faux news or from CBS/NBC/ABC or *wherever*. It is NOT OK for some to engage in faulty reporting while at the same time being a criminal offense for others. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

Jason
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun

Ah, OK, so you're saying that dishonesty in the press is OK if they're on your side, but the opposition are rat bastards if they do it?

I'm not so forgiving: I expect JOURNALISM to be fact-driven, report on VERIFIED, EMPIRICAL data to the best extent possible. I apply the same standard whether the alleged Journalism comes from Faux news or from CBS/NBC/ABC or *wherever*. It is NOT OK for some to engage in faulty reporting while at the same time being a criminal offense for others. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

Jason
Hannity blatantly lies each and every day. Rather relied on information that turned out to be false. He assumed the data was ok but did he lie? No.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: Insomniak
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric.
If they ditch the rhetoric, what do they have left? Not much.

Note the differences in this case:

Opposition to Mike Schiavo: Rhetoric, lots of talk about issues that are not directly related such as "morals" and "right/wrong".

Supporters of Mike Schiavo: No rhetorics, just a lot of pointing at the law and the facts that support their position.


I say proof is in the pudding.
And who is bitching the most right now? The Schindlers and Tom DeLay (who has absolutely NOTHING to do with the case. It's not even his damn state!)
 

MCWAR

Banned
Jan 13, 2005
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Im not a hanity supporter, but could we have a quote from him where he is engaging in hate speech?
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun

Ah, OK, so you're saying that dishonesty in the press is OK if they're on your side, but the opposition are rat bastards if they do it?

I'm not so forgiving: I expect JOURNALISM to be fact-driven, report on VERIFIED, EMPIRICAL data to the best extent possible. I apply the same standard whether the alleged Journalism comes from Faux news or from CBS/NBC/ABC or *wherever*. It is NOT OK for some to engage in faulty reporting while at the same time being a criminal offense for others. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

Jason
Hannity blatantly lies each and every day. Rather relied on information that turned out to be false. He assumed the data was ok but did he lie? No.

Oh, come on! If he had done his JOB as a Journalist he would have THOROUGHLY checked out the information BEFORE he reported it. Dan Rather, at least in this particular instance (and probably others that went undiscovered), did a PISS POOR job of handling his story because he was POLITICALLY MOTIVATED to get it out to try and defeat the candidate he didn't want to win. Yes, Hannity's fraud was much greater than that particular instance of Rather, but that DOES NOT JUSTIFY nor release Rather from responsibility.

Bad journalism is bad journalism-PERIOD.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun

Ah, OK, so you're saying that dishonesty in the press is OK if they're on your side, but the opposition are rat bastards if they do it?

I'm not so forgiving: I expect JOURNALISM to be fact-driven, report on VERIFIED, EMPIRICAL data to the best extent possible. I apply the same standard whether the alleged Journalism comes from Faux news or from CBS/NBC/ABC or *wherever*. It is NOT OK for some to engage in faulty reporting while at the same time being a criminal offense for others. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

Jason
Hannity blatantly lies each and every day. Rather relied on information that turned out to be false. He assumed the data was ok but did he lie? No.

Since I have never seen nor heard Hannity aside from the Schiavo case I have no knowledge of whether he "blatantly lies" each and every day or not. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but given that you accuse ANYONE you disagree with of "lying", I have to take that with a grain of salt and request that you keep the discussion to the specific issue we were talking about, and that's whether the journalism in this case was faulty. I think we both agree that it was VERY faulty, VERY dishonest and COMPLETELY unprofessional. I happen to think that Dan Rather is JUST AS GUILTY *in his own case*, and that BOTH men deserve to be tossed out on their asses.

We tolerate TOO MUCH poor journalism from *every* corner of the idealogical spectrum.

Jason
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun
Ah, OK, so you're saying that dishonesty in the press is OK if they're on your side, but the opposition are rat bastards if they do it?

I'm not so forgiving: I expect JOURNALISM to be fact-driven, report on VERIFIED, EMPIRICAL data to the best extent possible. I apply the same standard whether the alleged Journalism comes from Faux news or from CBS/NBC/ABC or *wherever*. It is NOT OK for some to engage in faulty reporting while at the same time being a criminal offense for others. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

Jason
Hannity blatantly lies each and every day. Rather relied on information that turned out to be false. He assumed the data was ok but did he lie? No.

Since I have never seen nor heard Hannity aside from the Schiavo case I have no knowledge of whether he "blatantly lies" each and every day or not.
Click the link I posted above. There's plenty of Hannity's lies to sift through.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but given that you accuse ANYONE you disagree with of "lying", I have to take that with a grain of salt
Uhh...yeah...right. Delusional much?

Rather can be held responsible for what he says on the air but how can he possibly do all of the research on every article? He's the point man relying on a team below him. Much the same way as the Propagandist has his administration around him. I don't see many, if any at all, holding the Propagandist accountable for the fvck-up in Iraq or for going WAY overboard and passing legislation related to ONE individual American who didn't want to be kept alive artificially.
 

impeachbush

Banned
Feb 22, 2005
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quote:
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but given that you accuse ANYONE you disagree with of "lying", I have to take that with a grain of salt
___


Anyone associated with Fox News is not honest. Period. That includes Colmes. Colmes knows he's a tool, he knows who he is in bed with, and is therefore as guilty as Hannity.

I'm amazed how anyone can begin to compare Rather with Hannity. Theres a huge difference between a biased reporter and a political hack/whore/fraud. Fox News is the Jerry Springer Show of news networks, its owned and operated by the republican party, and at the moment that party has control of our government! Regardless of your political views, if you can't see what is happening right in front of your eyes regarding Fox, would you mind if I call you Terri?
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: conjur
Oh lighten up on the rhetoric. Rather was biased, sure, but he was nowhere near the level of dishonesty and BS spewed forth by Insanity.

Have fun
Ah, OK, so you're saying that dishonesty in the press is OK if they're on your side, but the opposition are rat bastards if they do it?

I'm not so forgiving: I expect JOURNALISM to be fact-driven, report on VERIFIED, EMPIRICAL data to the best extent possible. I apply the same standard whether the alleged Journalism comes from Faux news or from CBS/NBC/ABC or *wherever*. It is NOT OK for some to engage in faulty reporting while at the same time being a criminal offense for others. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

Jason
Hannity blatantly lies each and every day. Rather relied on information that turned out to be false. He assumed the data was ok but did he lie? No.

Since I have never seen nor heard Hannity aside from the Schiavo case I have no knowledge of whether he "blatantly lies" each and every day or not.
Click the link I posted above. There's plenty of Hannity's lies to sift through.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but given that you accuse ANYONE you disagree with of "lying", I have to take that with a grain of salt
Uhh...yeah...right. Delusional much?

Rather can be held responsible for what he says on the air but how can he possibly do all of the research on every article? He's the point man relying on a team below him. Much the same way as the Propagandist has his administration around him. I don't see many, if any at all, holding the Propagandist accountable for the fvck-up in Iraq or for going WAY overboard and passing legislation related to ONE individual American who didn't want to be kept alive artificially.

You're so full of sh1t, as usual. PLENTY of people, in fact the MAJORITY of people, agree that Bush AND Congress were DEAD WRONG to interfere in the Terri Schiavo case. As for anyone holding them accountable, YES, the appropriate authorities intervened and acted appropriately: The COURTS. When it comes to ensuring that the Legislature and the Executive don't get too "big for their britches", it's the courts' job, and they did it VERY well and with GREAT integrity this time around. Try giving a little credit where it's due.

Defend Rather all you want: The fact is that he did a PISS POOR JOB of being a journalist, and ESPECIALLY in a story where he was breaking such potentially HUGE news he damn well had the responsibility to be SURE he was right, even if it meant checking the facts HIMSELF.

As I've said before: Hannity is a piece of sh1t and a clear, obvious, dishonest member of the media who puts his religious AGENDA before the FACTS of a story. In the same fashion, RATHER put his POLITICAL Agenda before the facts of a story. BOTH are just as guilty of PISS POOR JOURNALISM and DESERVE to be laughed off the stage.

Your defense of one poor journalist while bashing another only proves your own hypocrisy and your own devotion to your POLITICAL AGENDA. A man of integrity would damn BOTH sides for their unprofessionalism, but you are CLEARLY no such man.

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: impeachbush
quote:
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but given that you accuse ANYONE you disagree with of "lying", I have to take that with a grain of salt
___


Anyone associated with Fox News is not honest. Period. That includes Colmes. Colmes knows he's a tool, he knows who he is in bed with, and is therefore as guilty as Hannity.

I'm amazed how anyone can begin to compare Rather with Hannity. Theres a huge difference between a biased reporter and a political hack/whore/fraud. Fox News is the Jerry Springer Show of news networks, its owned and operated by the republican party, and at the moment that party has control of our government! Regardless of your political views, if you can't see what is happening right in front of your eyes regarding Fox, would you mind if I call you Terri?

I don't disagree with anything you've said except that you draw a DIFFERENCE between Rather and Hannity. Bad journalism=Bad journalism, PERIOD. Political Bias=Political Bias PERIOD. It makes NO DIFFERENCE whose side they were on or how big their stories were, the bottom line is that BOTH presented fraudulent information to the public in clear attempts to sway public opinion in favor of their cause.

BOTH are a DISGRACE to Journalism.

Jason
 

impeachbush

Banned
Feb 22, 2005
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Name one time where Hannity, or any of Fox News, has admitted screwing up a story (big ones). Not once.

Think about if Fox News ran the Bush/Nat.Guard debacle (and Bush was the democrat). Would they have retracted it? Nope. Instead, they would interview a thousand different 'experts' to destroy the reputation of anyone raising any doubt, and then muddy the waters so bad that the truth would never see the light of day.

This is very scary stuff were talking about. Its gone from 'damned that biased media' to 'oh sh*t, its Pravda, and theres nothing we can do to stop it.' Whats worse is that other networks are following in the footsteps of Fox... MSNBC with Scarborough, etc.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that every network is guilty to some extent, but to even begin to make a dent in the problem we need to take down the biggest and most powerful offender-FOX. If you start with the smaller guys, you just make the big boys stronger. If FOX was owned by the democratic party, my view of them wouldn't change a bit.

Also, one might think I'm sworn to the left, liberal, etc because of my handle. I agree with some beliefs the democratic party holds dear, but am nowhere close to calling myself a democrat. Even though Cheney would be worse than Bush (IMHO), an impeachment of Bush is necessary to restore any shred of respect for accountability, honesty, and the law left in our country (same view of Fox...start from the top). I'll leave this tangent for another post though...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Here is an excellent article from NY Times' Science Times today on varying states of consciousness in brain damaged patients.

Forgive the analogy, but the article makes the persistent vegetative state sound comparable to a computer that makes it through POST then freezes -- BIOS is working but the computer is unable to boot the OS.

Inside the Injured Brain, Many Kinds of Awareness

By BENEDICT CAREY

Published: April 5, 2005

The debate over Terri Schiavo's fate comes at a time when researchers are deepening their understanding of the unconscious brain.

Neuroscientists now understand at least some of the physiology behind a wide range of unconscious states, from deep sleep to coma, from partially conscious conditions to a persistent vegetative state, the condition diagnosed in Ms. Schiavo.

New research, by laboratories in New York and Europe, has allowed for much clearer distinctions to be made between the uncounted number of people who at some time become comatose, the 10,000 to 15,000 Americans who subsist in vegetative states and the estimated 100,000 or more who exist in states of partial consciousness.

This emerging picture should make it easier for doctors to judge which brain-damaged patients have some hope of recovering awareness, experts say, and already it is providing clues to the specific brain processes that sustain conscious awareness.

"Understanding what these processes are will give us a better sense of how to help the whole range of people living with brain injuries," said Dr. Nicholas Schiff, an assistant professor of neurology and neuroscience at NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell hospital. "That is where this field is ultimately headed: toward a better understanding of what consciousness is."

The most familiar unconscious state is sleep, which in its deepest phases is characterized by little electrical activity in the brain and almost complete unresponsiveness. Coma, the most widely known state of impaired unconsciousness, is in fact a continuum. Doctors rate the extent to which a comatose person shows pain responses and reactions to verbal sounds on a scale from 3, for no response, to 13, for consistent responses.

As in sleep, people in comas may move or make sounds and typically have no memory of either. But they almost always emerge from this state in two to three weeks, doctors say, when the eyes open spontaneously. What follows is critical for the person's recovery.

Those who are lucky, or who have less severe injuries, gradually awaken. "The first thing I remember was telling my ex-boyfriend, who was at the foot of the bed, to shut up," said Trisha Meili, who fell into a coma after being beaten and raped in 1990, and wrote about the experience in the book, "I Am the Central Park Jogger."

In the days after this memory, Ms. Meili said, she slipped in and out of conscious awareness, "as if my body was taking care of the most important things first, and leaving my moment to moment awareness for last."

In fact, researchers say, this is precisely what happens. The primitive brain stem, which controls sleep-wake cycles as well as reflexes, asserts itself first, as the eyes open. Ideally, areas of the cerebral cortex, the seat of conscious thought, soon follow, like lights flicking on in the upper rooms of a darkened house.

But in some cases - Ms. Schiavo's was one of them - the cortical areas fail to engage, and the patient's prognosis becomes dire.


Neurologists were all but unanimous in diagnosing the condition of Ms. Schiavo, whose heart stopped temporarily in 1990, depriving her brain of oxygen. Brain cells and neural connections wither and die without oxygen, like marine life in a drained lake, leaving virtually nothing unharmed.

People with these kinds of injuries - Nancy Cruzan, whose case reached the Supreme Court in 1990 is an example - almost always remain unresponsive if they have not regained awareness in the first months after the injury.

In medical terms, they become persistently vegetative, a diagnosis first described in 1972 by Dr. Fred Plum of Cornell University and Dr. Bryan Jennett, a neurosurgeon at Glasgow University in Scotland. In a sense, the description of the diagnosis began the modern study of disorders of consciousness. "Before 1972 people talked about permanent comas, or irrecoverable comas, but we defined a different state altogether, with the eyes open, some reflex activity, but no sign of meaningful psychological responsiveness," Dr. Jennett, now a professor emeritus, said in an interview.

In an exhaustive review of the medical histories of more than 700 persistently vegetative patients, a team of doctors in 1994 reported that about 15 percent of those who suffered brain damage from oxygen deprivation, like Ms. Schiavo, recovered some awareness within three months. After that, however, very few recovered and none did so after two years.

About 52 percent of people with traumatic wounds to the head, often from car accidents, recovered some awareness in the first year after the injury, the study found; very few recovered after that. "It's the difference between taking a blow to the brain, which affects a local area - and taking this global, whole-brain hit," said Dr. Joseph Fins, chief of the medical ethics division of NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell hospital.

Yet these statistics cannot explain the stories of remarkable recovery that surfaced during the debate over Ms. Schiavo's fate. There was Terry Wallis, a mechanic in Arkansas who regained awareness in 2003, more than 18 years after he fell into unconsciousness from a car accident; Sarah Scantlin, a Kansas woman who, also a victim of a car accident, emerged from a similar state after 19 years; and several others, whose collective human spirit seemed to defy the experts, and trump science.

Researchers say these cases can be accounted for by recent studies that indicate the existence of yet another state of subdued responsiveness, one that represents a clear break from the vegetative.

For years, doctors who specialize in rehabilitation have known that some of their severely brain-damaged patients were responsive, at least once in a while. In their good moments, these patients could track objects with their eyes. They could follow commands, like reaching for a glass, or grabbing someone's hand. They were - intermittently, unpredictably, but unequivocally - responsive.

In 2002, a panel of experts established a new diagnosis on the basis of exactly these reactions: the minimally conscious state. "It took years to get some agreement on the definition, and it's only now getting some acceptance," said Dr. Nancy Childs, at Texas NeuroRehab Center in Austin, "but we've known for years that there was this other group."

In a landmark study published in February, a team of neuroscientists in New York, New Jersey and Washington, led by Dr. Schiff, used imaging technology to compare the brain activity in two young men who were deemed to be minimally conscious with the brain activity of seven healthy men and women. The researchers recorded an audiotape for each of the nine subjects in which a relative or loved one reminisced, telling familiar stories or recalling shared experiences.

In each of the brain-damaged patients, the sound of the voice prompted a pattern of brain activity similar to that of the healthy participants. The team has since replicated the results in other minimally conscious patients.

Like an interlocking set of old Christmas lights, blinking on and then off, the neural connections in minimally conscious patients seem to be in place, the research suggests. In persistently vegetative brains, by contrast, the crucial connections are apparently shot: maybe one light blinks here, another over there, but the full network is dark.

One case, of a 26-year-old English woman named Kate who emerged from a subdued unconscious state after six months, suggests such patients may be at times acutely aware of what is happening around them. During rehabilitation, though unable to communicate, this woman had a visit from a college friend.

"I have just met an old friend from Uni and it really upset me," the woman recalled thinking, doctors reported. "I can now see how much I am missing. She has been married for five years and she has a house and a life. I just scream as I can't cry, which I would do if I could."

Recovery from severe brain damage is viewed in this new understanding as a step-wise progression: people who regain conscious awareness pass from a coma to a vegetative state to minimal consciousness - and almost always do so quickly, usually within a month or so of shaking the coma. Those who regain awareness within hours of emerging from a coma probably also pass through the same progression, but so swiftly the changes go unnoticed, some experts say.

"If you look at these cases of recovery closely, you will find that many of these patients were showing signs of consciousness much earlier" than is sometimes portrayed in news media accounts, Dr. Fins of NewYork-Presbyterian said.

Researchers know little about how to draw a person out of a minimally conscious state, which itself can last a lifetime. In one study of 124 brain-damaged patients, doctors in Philadelphia and New Jersey reported in March that amantadine, a drug for Parkinson's disease, appeared to speed recovery in some people. But the evidence was not definitive and will require confirmation, the authors wrote.

Rehabilitation, such as it is, typically includes life support, if needed, and regular visits from medical staff, typically to change the patient's position in bed and to stimulate the senses with bright lights, noises, sharp smells and tastes, including lemon and chocolate. "I always tell families that it's time and nature and God taking care of things, that what we do mostly is monitor the patients," said Dr. Childs.

Dr. Joseph Giacino, a neuropsychologist at the JFK Johnson Rehabilitation Institute in Edison, N.J., has been following a group of brain-damaged patients with both oxygen-deprivation and traumatic injuries, and finds that the group with traumatic injuries - if they become minimally conscious - are far more likely to show signs of recovery than the others. "There is a real separation between these patients and the others in terms of improvement in the first year," Dr. Giacino said.

Ms. Schiavo showed no evidence of having ever entered a minimally conscious state, either in the early 90's or later, neurologists say. An EEG of her cerebral cortex showed almost no electrical activity, said a neurologist who examined her, and a dozen experts interviewed about her case agreed that an M.R.I. scan would have added no information.

In Dr. Schiff's study comparing M.R.I. activity of minimally conscious with normal subjects, the researchers also found a striking difference. The overall rate of energy consumption was significantly higher in the normal brains than in the minimally conscious ones. This difference in idling speed may be crucial to maintaining conscious awareness, Dr. Schiff and others suggested.

Because signaling between brain cells requires one cell to overwhelm the other, Dr. Schiff said, a lower idling speed may make the signaling threshold harder to overcome - effectively damping activity throughout the brain. "The idea is that maybe if you were to activate that substrate, you may cross the threshold and generate enough activity" to produce more awareness, he said.

 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: impeachbush
Name one time where Hannity, or any of Fox News, has admitted screwing up a story (big ones). Not once.

Think about if Fox News ran the Bush/Nat.Guard debacle (and Bush was the democrat). Would they have retracted it? Nope. Instead, they would interview a thousand different 'experts' to destroy the reputation of anyone raising any doubt, and then muddy the waters so bad that the truth would never see the light of day.

This is very scary stuff were talking about. Its gone from 'damned that biased media' to 'oh sh*t, its Pravda, and theres nothing we can do to stop it.' Whats worse is that other networks are following in the footsteps of Fox... MSNBC with Scarborough, etc.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that every network is guilty to some extent, but to even begin to make a dent in the problem we need to take down the biggest and most powerful offender-FOX. If you start with the smaller guys, you just make the big boys stronger. If FOX was owned by the democratic party, my view of them wouldn't change a bit.

Also, one might think I'm sworn to the left, liberal, etc because of my handle. I agree with some beliefs the democratic party holds dear, but am nowhere close to calling myself a democrat. Even though Cheney would be worse than Bush (IMHO), an impeachment of Bush is necessary to restore any shred of respect for accountability, honesty, and the law left in our country (same view of Fox...start from the top). I'll leave this tangent for another post though...

I disagree that Cheney would be worse than Bush, but for the rest, I remain steadfast: Bad journalism is bad journalism, PERIOD, and we should not accept faulty, misleading reports from ANY media outlet that claims to be a News source. If a "talk show" host wants to spread his opinion and it happens to be wrong, FINE, but there is a *world* of difference between the NEWS and a TALK SHOW.

Again: Hannity is a worthless jackass who should be called out and fired for his lies and deceipt, but that doesn't let guys like Rather off the hook.

Jason
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

I disagree that Cheney would be worse than Bush, but for the rest, I remain steadfast: Bad journalism is bad journalism, PERIOD, and we should not accept faulty, misleading reports from ANY media outlet that claims to be a News source. If a "talk show" host wants to spread his opinion and it happens to be wrong, FINE, but there is a *world* of difference between the NEWS and a TALK SHOW.

Again: Hannity is a worthless jackass who should be called out and fired for his lies and deceipt, but that doesn't let guys like Rather off the hook.

Jason

No matter what anyone believes Rather did or didn't do, hacks like Hannity aren't even in the same profession as journalists like Rather. The man was where the action was without thought for himself so we could get information from an independent source rather than the current flock of embedded party line MSM whores.

What we see and hear today may be called news but it's really propaganda. The confusion should be expected I suppose since we have the Bush administration confusing all those befuddled Americans by spending millions of their tax dollars producing commercials that the media broadcasts as news. :roll:

 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
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an aside: had anyone noticed that variety published a story on April 1st that CBS was going to run a TS movie, with MS as the hero, etc....now, knowing 1) it was april 1st 2)MS signed no deals as far as i could see 3)the family did and still hated him i pretty much figured this was BS.
but apparently, sites like World News Daily published the story as legit. now, many a right-wing forum users (not here) are up in arms over CBS fake movie.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Living will is the best revenge
By ROBERT FRIEDMAN, Perspective Editor
Published March 27, 2005

Like many of you, I have been compelled by recent events to prepare a more detailed advance directive dealing with end-of-life issues. Here's what mine says:

* In the event I lapse into a persistent vegetative state, I want medical authorities to resort to extraordinary means to prolong my hellish semiexistence. Fifteen years wouldn't be long enough for me.

* I want my wife and my parents to compound their misery by engaging in a bitter and protracted feud that depletes their emotions and their bank accounts.

* I want my wife to ruin the rest of her life by maintaining an interminable vigil at my bedside. I'd be really jealous if she waited less than a decade to start dating again or otherwise rebuilding a semblance of a normal life.

* I want my case to be turned into a circus by losers and crackpots from around the country who hope to bring meaning to their empty lives by investing the same transient emotion in me that they once reserved for Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy and that little girl who got stuck in a well.

* I want those crackpots to spread vicious lies about my wife.

* I want to be placed in a hospice where protesters can gather to bring further grief and disruption to the lives of dozens of dying patients and families whose stories are sadder than my own.

* I want the people who attach themselves to my case because of their deep devotion to the sanctity of life to make death threats against any judges, elected officials or health care professionals who disagree with them.

* I want the medical geniuses and philosopher kings who populate the Florida Legislature to ignore me for more than a decade and then turn my case into a forum for weeks of politically calculated bloviation.

* I want total strangers - oily politicians, maudlin news anchors, ersatz friars and all other hangers-on - to start calling me "Bobby," as if they had known me since childhood.

* I'm not insisting on this as part of my directive, but it would be nice if Congress passed a "Bobby's Law" that applied only to me and ignored the medical needs of tens of millions of other Americans without adequate health coverage.

* Even if the "Bobby's Law" idea doesn't work out, I want Congress - especially all those self-described conservatives who claim to believe in "less government and more freedom" - to trample on the decisions of doctors, judges and other experts who actually know something about my case. And I want members of Congress to launch into an extended debate that gives them another excuse to avoid pesky issues such as national security and the economy.

* In particular, I want House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to use my case as an opportunity to divert the country's attention from the mounting political and legal troubles stemming from his slimy misbehavior.

* And I want Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to make a mockery of his Harvard medical degree by misrepresenting the details of my case in ways that might give a boost to his 2008 presidential campaign.

* I want Frist and the rest of the world to judge my medical condition on the basis of a snippet of dated and demeaning videotape that should have remained private.

* Because I think I would retain my sense of humor even in a persistent vegetative state, I'd want President Bush - the same guy who publicly mocked Karla Faye Tucker when signing off on her death warrant as governor of Texas - to claim he was intervening in my case because it is always best "to err on the side of life."

* I want the state Department of Children and Families to step in at the last moment to take responsibility for my well-being, because nothing bad could ever happen to anyone under DCF's care.

* And because Gov. Jeb Bush is the smartest and most righteous human being on the face of the Earth, I want any and all of the aforementioned directives to be disregarded if the governor happens to disagree with them. If he says he knows what's best for me, I won't be in any position to argue.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
France gets it. They don't want same crap that happened in U.S. happening there although they already came very close.

4-13-2005 French Parliament Adopts 'End of Life' Law

The law also suggests families should be able to request an end to life support for unconscious patients, and says doctors can prescribe pain-stopping drugs for a terminally ill patient, even if the medication increases the risk of dying.
==============================================
The U.S. is the backwater of the World now, Republicans must be proud.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
France gets it. They don't want same crap that happened in U.S. happening there although they already came very close.

4-13-2005 French Parliament Adopts 'End of Life' Law

The law also suggests families should be able to request an end to life support for unconscious patients, and says doctors can prescribe pain-stopping drugs for a terminally ill patient, even if the medication increases the risk of dying.
==============================================
The U.S. is the backwater of the World now, Republicans must be proud.

Not likely to happen in America with scumbags like Tom DeLay around.

DeLay's ideas are completely antithetical to the French law. DeLay would rather use this issue to advance his perverse political agenda -- and provide cover for his crimes.

This is just becoming ridiculous.

Majority Leader Asks House Panel to Review Judges

By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

Published: April 14, 2005

WASHINGTON, April 13 - Deflecting all questions about his ethical conduct and political future, Representative Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, on Wednesday stepped up his crusade against judges, announcing that he had instructed the Judiciary Committee to investigate federal court decisions in the Terri Schiavo case and to recommend possible legislation.

At a crowded news conference, Mr. DeLay said he would not entertain questions about his political activities. It was his first question-and-answer session with reporters since one fellow Republican, Representative Christopher Shays of Connecticut, called for him to resign his leadership post and another, Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House, said he should explain himself to the American people.

"I'm not here to discuss the Democrats' agenda," Mr. DeLay declared.

He has asserted that Democrats and the "liberal media" are orchestrating a campaign to discredit him by raising questions about possible ethics violations, including overseas travel financed by outside groups.

But the questions persisted. Mr. Gingrich, who in a television interview Tuesday said Mr. DeLay seemed to be blaming a left-wing conspiracy, told a meeting of the American Society of Newspaper Editors on Wednesday that the majority leader must ultimately "brief the country in a public way."

"He and his lawyers have to decide when that is," Mr. Gingrich said. "But he at some point has got to convince people that what he has done was reasonable and authentic and legitimate."

Mr. DeLay was also a topic at the White House press briefing, where Scott McClellan, President Bush's spokesman, said the president supported what Mr. DeLay and other Congressional leaders were doing "to move forward on the agenda that the American people want us to enact."

But Mr. McClellan suggested that the relationship between Mr. Bush and Mr. DeLay, a fellow Texan, was more business than social.

"Sure," Mr. McClellan said, when asked if the president considered Mr. DeLay a friend. He went on, "I think there are different levels of friendship with anybody."

Mr. DeLay, the No. 2 House Republican, , has been embroiled in ethics controversies for months, ever since a grand jury in Texas indicted some of his top operatives. But the spotlight has intensified in recent weeks since he led Congress to intervene in the case of Ms. Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman who died after her feeding tube was withdrawn by court order.

Despite the unusual Congressional legislation, several federal courts refused to reopen the Schiavo case, enraging Mr. DeLay and other Republicans.

Mr. DeLay's subsequent criticisms of the courts - at one point he suggested that the judges responsible could be impeached and at another point said that they would be held responsible - have brought ridicule from Democrats. They have also prompted some prominent Republicans, including Mr. Bush and Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, the majority leader, to distance themselves from him.

Asked last week about Mr. DeLay's attacks on judges, Mr. Bush would only say that he believed in an independent judiciary, in a system of checks and balances, in judges who strictly interpreted the Constitution.

On Wednesday, Mr. DeLay seemed to adopt the president's language: "Of course I believe in an independent judiciary," he said. He also apologized for the impeachment comment, even as he insisted it was well within the purview of Congress to rein in the courts.

"Sometimes I get a little more passionate," Mr. DeLay said, "particularly during the moment and the day that Terri Schiavo was starved to death. Emotions were flowing."

"I said something in an inartful way," he added, "and I shouldn't have said it that way, and I apologize. I apologize for saying it that way. It was taken wrong, and I didn't explain or clarify my remarks as I'm clarifying them here."

Mr. DeLay was not specific about what legislative changes, if any, he would like to see emerge from the Judiciary Committee's review. But in announcing that he had asked Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., a Wisconsin Republican and the committee chairman, to examine the actions of federal judges in the Schiavo case, Mr. DeLay said the House had previously passed legislation limiting the jurisdiction of the courts and breaking up the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, a bill that died in the Senate.

"We set the jurisdiction of the courts," Mr. DeLay said. "We set up the courts. We can unset the courts."

As to the ethics questions, Mr. DeLay repeated that he was "more than happy" to have the House ethics committee review those issues. But it cannot do so because the committee is embroiled in a fight over rules changes that critics say will discourage ethics inquiries. Democrats, upset that Republicans adopted the changes without their cooperation, are refusing to constitute the committee this session. The panel met Wednesday to try to resolve the impasse, but was unsuccessful.

"We're trying to find some common ground," said the chairman, Representative Doc Hastings, Republican of Washington. "We have been talking. As long as we can talk, I tend to be an optimist."

Democrats, meanwhile, sharply criticized the ethics rule changes on Wednesday at a news conference that featured Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House Democratic leader, and the Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada. Ms. Pelosi warned that House Republicans, who rode to power in 1994 by portraying Democrats as arrogant, had become arrogant. "I have said for a long time their greed will be their downfall," she said.

At least one Republican, Mr. Shays, seemed to agree on Wednesday. "I'm no fan of Nancy Pelosi," he said. But, he added, "we said we would be different and we were when we started out. We are quickly becoming like they were when they were in the majority."

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
I read the following piece from a UAE news source, The Park Tribune, which juxtaposes America's obsession with Terri Schiavo along side our ignorance of the situation we created in Iraq.

A situation that affects far more people yet gets far less attention.

The world is looking at America as though we're an attraction in a freak show.

And with very good reason.

The United Vegetative States of America

Tuesday April 12, 2005 (0203 PST)

Anwaar Hussain
eagleeye@emirates.net.ae

Where is the free American media and their kind hearted patrons when their G.I. Joes are pumping up Iraq with depleted uranium, napalm bombs, cluster munitions and poisonous gases even as these lines are being written? Is death less camera-friendly in Iraq or is it less worthy of the Americans' attention? Are Iraqis children of a lesser god? Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

After having lived for 15 years in a persistent vegetative state, Terri Schindler Schiavo crossed over from here to the hereafter on the last day of March.

With her blood scent up in the air, the feral American media went berserk in the last two weeks of Schiavo's life. Using this so called freest press in the world, the American public was lead on a leash by the right-wing activists with a not so subtle help from the neofundos ruling the roost in their great country. The pro-life campaigners remained at the point of this bizarre national entertainment.

Americans never fail to astound the world with their penchant for sensationalism. Just when it appears that they?ve scaled new peaks, they manage to notch themselves up yet higher into the dizzying summits of luridness. While the carnival of mayhem is progressing ahead in full tide in Iraq, the Americans love and sympathy for the plight of Terri Schiavo is the very embodiment of duplicity. Hypocrisy in its truest form, it speaks volumes of their OJ Simpson syndrome.

Every facet of Schiavo?s affliction was dissected with microscopic focus by the voracious lens of the American media. The American public gobbled it all up like starved men on a king's feast.

Consider the following;

The dizzying media blitz surpassed even the Asian tsunami three months ago that left approximately 300,000 people dead or missing. According to TVEyes-the digital monitoring service-in this period the cable outlets and networks have mentioned "Schiavo" more than 15,000 times. On the other hand, these same outlets mentioned "tsunami" only 9,000 times during the two weeks following the Asian humanitarian crisis. Internet chat rooms, letters to editors, opinion columns, television talk shows and all national debate forums buzzed with arguments on Schiavo's right to live or die.

The American President played a lead role in this theater of the absurd. On her death he said, "I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life... The essence of civilization is that the strong have a duty to protect the weak. In cases where there are serious doubts and questions, the presumption should be in the favor of life."

Some hypocrisy, some gall, some double bloody standards. As the Americans applaud their president who makes murder acceptable and lies seem true, they neither challenge the serious doubts and questions in Iraq's case nor force their government for a presumption in the favor of Iraqi's lives. While their president urges the Americans to build a culture of life, he sanctions his strong forces to make it their duty to prey on innocent lives in Iraq with nauseating impunity. No such debate is taking place on the main stream American media on the false dichotomies of their government's conduct.

Forever reined by their corporate controlled media, the American nation lapped at the pool of misery of a suffering human being. For two tumultuous weeks, the American public really excelled in the festive ambiance of human misfortune duly projected by their so called world?s freest media.

It would not have been so out of place had the Americans shown the same tenderness for the misery of other human beings, especially for the ones upon whom they have inflicted it themselves. The long-forgotten Iraq war got just about 2,900 TV mentions over the same two weeks that Schiavo obsession ran wild.

When they were shedding tears on Schiavo like events, not very long back an Iraqi girl Fatima was being repeatedly raped by the beasts that guarded Abu Ghuraib prison. Here is an excerpt from her heart rending letter to Iraqi resistance fighters;

"...I say to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies of the Qur?an that hung around our necks? ...By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies apart with his overweening lust. Kill us along with them! Destroy us along with them! Don?t leave us here to let them get pleasure from raping us...Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

They raped me on one day more than nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped. Why can?t you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls, all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone. They took our clothes and won?t let us get dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide. She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn?t take any more.

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might be at peace. Help! Help! Help!"

One hundred resistance fighters launched a fierce attack on the prison lead by Fatima's elder brother. People died, Fatima reportedly among them. Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

While the Americans and their media kept a macabre death-watch over Schiavo's plight, Dr. Hafidh al-Dulaimi, the head of "the Commission for the Compensation of Fallujah citizens" has reported the destruction that American troops have inflicted on Fallujah. Here is a brief gist;

"7000 totally destroyed, or nearly totally destroyed, homes in all districts of Fallujah. - 8400 stores, workshops, clinics, warehouses, etc. destroyed. - 65 mosques and religious sanctuaries demolished - 59 kindergartens, primary schools, secondary schools and technical colleges destroyed. - 13 government buildings leveled. - Four libraries, that housed thousands of ancient Islamic manuscripts and books, gutted completely. - on and on and on..." Human beings lived in those buildings; make your own guess of their toll. Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

It seems that having wallowed in the deceptions, lies, crimes and war mongering of their rulers for centuries, and now immersed neck deep in a smothering swamp of consumerism, the Americans have lost their sense of impartiality, justice and fairness. It also seems that there are too many Americans with blood lust out there who look at pictures of butchered Iraqi kids and rejoice.

The coverage of Schiavo like events allows the Americans to whet their appetite for tragedy, hone the fine art of hypocrisy and feed their morbid addiction of calamity. It may be a blatant affront to the sense and sensibilities of the enlightened world citizenry, they don't care.

Haven't the lies of their rulers now been fully exposed? Why is it that the common Americans do not see the Iraqi butchery for what it is--a brazen plan for occupation, suppression and theft of vital resources of an already aggrieved and impoverished nation, whatever the human cost. Or is it that they see it and agree with the plan of maintaining white man's license for as long as possible? Why else would they reelect this gang of criminals and thus be responsible for the carnage by default. Or has the American nation too lapsed into a persistent vegetative state and thus did not notice the gang sneaking into the white House? Should their country now be named as the United Vegetative States of America?

Why can't they see the horrendous atrocities that the United States military is visiting upon unarmed Iraqis who never posed any danger to their beloved country? Why can't their free media catch on its eagle eyed lens the raining cluster bombs, the showering napalms, and the tortures in the dungeons? If the BBC can broadcast an interview with a grieving Iraqi woman whose pregnant daughter had been machine-gunned by U.S. troops, why is there nothing on the US media? Why the common Americans are not out on the streets protesting the horrendous actions of their administration and the sinister complicity of their media? Would they show the same stoic indifference if a couple of tons of depleted uranium are shot up the New York alleys? Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

Where was this concern for human misery when the death toll in Iraq shot past the 100,000 mark? Where were the tears of human compassion when Fallujah was razed to the ground and its citizens-men, women and children alike-gunned down by the valiant American troops and left on the streets for the dogs to feed on? Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

Where is the free American media and their kind hearted patrons when their G.I. Joes are pumping up Iraq with depleted uranium, napalm bombs, cluster munitions and poisonous gases even as these lines are being written? Is death less camera-friendly in Iraq or is it less worthy of the Americans' attention? Are Iraqis children of a lesser god? Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

When it comes to Iraq, the Americans' sympathy wells suddenly dry up. While they shed tears for a woman who remained in a halfway house for the past 15 years, the dead and the maimed of other nations are forgotten as soon as their media leads them to yet another thrilling topic. Or are these crocodile tears that they shed when they are ready to devour?

Who was it that said, "The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity."?

The American writer Lee Harris was spot on the dot in his article "Good American Hypocrisy" when he wrote," America?s current critics need to recognize that in pursuing its self-interest the United States is hardly unique-what singles us out from among nations is our obdurate hypocrisy. We have to pretend to ourselves that we are doing the right thing-often at the cost of actually doing it." Go talk of Schiavo's right to live or die.

Long live the United Vegetative States of America.

 
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