proven that crossfitters support bad form and continually risk injury during workouts?
I've seen life-long body builders, gym rats, and weightlifters stride in as if they were Atlas about to shoulder the world for everyone to see only to end up in the fetal position at the end of the workout.
See, this is the biggest problem I have with crossfit, the attitude that the effectiveness of the workouts is demonstrated by how exhuasting/excruciating they are.
The tem "gym rat" is kind of broad, but lets consider the body builders and weightlifters you mentioned. Does Crossfit build a better physique than more conventional body building routines/diets? If so, why don't we see the elite body builders moving to Crossfit? If not, why would the body builder care if the crossfit routine kicked his ass or not? If it's not an ideal routine, why waste time with it? Similar points for the weight lifter. Are the crossfit workout going to build his main lifts (snatch, clean, jerk) better than the hours he spends in the gym focusing on those lifts and targeted assistance work?
I think what your point illustrates is a common blind spot that many crossfitters have. They don't realize that powerlifters, weightlifters, and bodybuilders are training for specific goals. When I'm playing hockey I need a massively strong trunk to control the puck as I manuver on my skates, and I need tremendously strong legs to explode into my crossovers. Whatever nebulous "fitness" I achieve by doing 20 belly flop hand clap pushups followed by 30 jump squats followed by puking will not translate to those abilities like a 400 lb. deadlift and a 300 lb. squat will.
I could make my squat workout an ordeal if I really wanted to. I could do my 3x5 and then keep deloading the bar and repping out until my legs felt like they were going to fall off. What does that accomplish though?
All that said, I would echo the points some others have made that crossfit is still much better then nothing, and much better than just running or doing an eliptical.
See, this is the biggest problem I have with crossfit, the attitude that the effectiveness of the workouts is demonstrated by how exhuasting/excruciating they are.
The tem "gym rat" is kind of broad, but lets consider the body builders and weightlifters you mentioned. Does Crossfit build a better physique than more conventional body building routines/diets? If so, why don't we see the elite body builders moving to Crossfit? If not, why would the body builder care if the crossfit routine kicked his ass or not? If it's not an ideal routine, why waste time with it? Similar points for the weight lifter. Are the crossfit workout going to build his main lifts (snatch, clean, jerk) better than the hours he spends in the gym focusing on those lifts and targeted assistance work?
I think what your point illustrates is a common blind spot that many crossfitters have. They don't realize that powerlifters, weightlifters, and bodybuilders are training for specific goals. When I'm playing hockey I need a massively strong trunk to control the puck as I manuver on my skates, and I need tremendously strong legs to explode into my crossovers. Whatever nebulous "fitness" I achieve by doing 20 belly flop hand clap pushups followed by 30 jump squats followed by puking will not translate to those abilities like a 400 lb. deadlift and a 300 lb. squat will.
I could make my squat workout an ordeal if I really wanted to. I could do my 3x5 and then keep deloading the bar and repping out until my legs felt like they were going to fall off. What does that accomplish though?
All that said, I would echo the points some others have made that crossfit is still much better then nothing, and much better than just running or doing an eliptical.
Crossfit in theory is designed to be an all around fitness. A crossfitter will not out run a marathon runner but they will outrun say a bodybuilder or power lifter and outlift a runner etc. They may not excel at anything but as an all around athlete in general that can compete in a multitude of sports they will do very well.
See, this is the biggest problem I have with crossfit, the attitude that the effectiveness of the workouts is demonstrated by how exhuasting/excruciating they are.
The tem "gym rat" is kind of broad, but lets consider the body builders and weightlifters you mentioned. Does Crossfit build a better physique than more conventional body building routines/diets? If so, why don't we see the elite body builders moving to Crossfit? If not, why would the body builder care if the crossfit routine kicked his ass or not? If it's not an ideal routine, why waste time with it? Similar points for the weight lifter. Are the crossfit workout going to build his main lifts (snatch, clean, jerk) better than the hours he spends in the gym focusing on those lifts and targeted assistance work?
I think what your point illustrates is a common blind spot that many crossfitters have. They don't realize that powerlifters, weightlifters, and bodybuilders are training for specific goals. When I'm playing hockey I need a massively strong trunk to control the puck as I manuver on my skates, and I need tremendously strong legs to explode into my crossovers. Whatever nebulous "fitness" I achieve by doing 20 belly flop hand clap pushups followed by 30 jump squats followed by puking will not translate to those abilities like a 400 lb. deadlift and a 300 lb. squat will.
I could make my squat workout an ordeal if I really wanted to. I could do my 3x5 and then keep deloading the bar and repping out until my legs felt like they were going to fall off. What does that accomplish though?
All that said, I would echo the points some others have made that crossfit is still much better then nothing, and much better than just running or doing an eliptical.
I agree with everything you say here wholeheartedly. My apologies to all on the board if it seemed I was generalizing and proselytizing re: crossfit. It meets my goals of being in all-around good athletic and muscular shape.
They might out run a competitive power lifter, but I doubt they will out run a soccer player that is using power lifting to improve his athleticism.
They might out run a competitive power lifter, but I doubt they will out run a soccer player that is using power lifting to improve his athleticism.
Maybe not.
But lets say you have a goal of 3:30 marathon.
450 DL
4.6 40 yard dash
and 35 inch vertical
I think a crossfit style traiing would probably be the best approach if these were your goals.
Rich's physique is attainable... But the likes of Coleman is most likely not. The kicker is the bodybuilders you mention work out entirely for the aesthetics. The way they look is their ultimate goal. A guy like rich's build is a byproduct of his workouts, not the main goal. For me, I would rather be the best at one thing... ie the biggest guy or strongest rather than be a jack of all trades and the master of noneCrossfit in theory is designed to be an all around fitness. A crossfitter will not out run a marathon runner but they will outrun say a bodybuilder or power lifter and outlift a runner etc. They may not excel at anything but as an all around athlete in general that can compete in a multitude of sports they will do very well.
It definitely has its merits. Tell me someone like Rich Froning is not an amazing athlete.
http://games.crossfit.com/athlete/11435
Yes he is the extreme but I'd rather have Rich Fronings physique than Jay Cutler/Ronnie Coleman/Dave Tate physique.
We did weight training when I played soccer 10 years ago.Of course not. But now you're cherry picking specific examples. CF athlete would probably kill the soccer player at rowing, but a collegiate rower would of course make the CF athlete look like his bitch.
It's all varying degrees of a spectrum. CF's purpose was to put itself right in the middle of the spectrum, so there's a little bit of everything. Anyone that claims a CF athlete would beat a specialized athlete at a specialized sport or activity is delusional and or stupid.
It's like the 5x5. The 5x5 is such a great novice weight training protocol because it even splits the difference between raw power (1-3 reps) and hypertrophy (8-12). Does that mean the 5x5 is superior to ALL OTHERS? No, of course not (which is why 5/3/1, the Texas Method, Conjugate Method and a variety of other advanced programs exist), but it's probably superior as a novice base from which you can then specialize into power or bodybuilding. CF is essentially the 5x5 of the fitness world.
If soccer players are now using power lifting to improve their athleticism, I would argue we can thank CrossFit for that. I don't think that would have been the case 15 years ago (football yes, hockey yes, soccer no).
Rich's physique is attainable... But the likes of Coleman is most likely not. The kicker is the bodybuilders you mention work out entirely for the aesthetics. The way they look is their ultimate goal. A guy like rich's build is a byproduct of his workouts, not the main goal. For me, I would rather be the best at one thing... ie the biggest guy or strongest rather than be a jack of all trades and the master of none
Of course not. But now you're cherry picking specific examples. CF athlete would probably kill the soccer player at rowing, but a collegiate rower would of course make the CF athlete look like his bitch.
It's like the 5x5. The 5x5 is such a great novice weight training protocol because it even splits the difference between raw power (1-3 reps) and hypertrophy (8-12). Does that mean the 5x5 is superior to ALL OTHERS? No, of course not (which is why 5/3/1, the Texas Method, Conjugate Method and a variety of other advanced programs exist), but it's probably superior as a novice base from which you can then specialize into power or bodybuilding. CF is essentially the 5x5 of the fitness world.
If soccer players are now using power lifting to improve their athleticism, I would argue we can thank CrossFit for that. I don't think that would have been the case 15 years ago (football yes, hockey yes, soccer no).
I'm not convinced of that at all. Why do you think the crossfitter would kill the soccer player at rowing?
It is rather obvious why the CFer would win. They would get their boat close to the soccer player, and the soccer player would flip his boat and flop into the water. =)
CrossFit (from my understanding) is about practical application of overall fitness. That is why it is great for first responders and military. They require more aspects than being able to just lift a really heavy weight once or have every muscle be seen and perfectly in proportion.
A body builder would be worthless in a real combat environment or in a situation where you have are saving people in a burning building.
a bodybuilder is a bodybuilder, not a person prepping for combat.
and WTF does "practical application of overall fitness" mean? How does one measure "overall fitness" or the application of it? I interpret that as crossfitters training to be the best at exercising.
I can run if need be, I can lift heavy weight if need be. I can lift and run more than I would need to on a daily basis, so I guess my practical application of fitness is pretty decent
In real world application (like that of a firefighter or a police officer) a body builder lacks the skills and muscle endurance. Sure, they are good at posing, but that doesn't really save lives.
For most jobs, fitness is completely about looks. There isn't anything wrong with that. I have no need in my everyday life to run farther than the bathroom if I happen to drink a glass of milk. But in a lot of of jobs, being able to run a mile might be something desirable.
And yes, I do agree CrossFitters do train to be good at exercising, the same as body builders train to be good at posing in their underwear.
Bodybuilder =/= someone who barbell trains. I think you've tricked meathead Zivic into arguing that people who weight train but don't use crossfit = bodybuilders, that is not true. Barbell training can easily be combined with cardiovascular training to be perfectly adequate at any real world situation.
Oh, I understand that. Obviously the best athletes don't do crossfit, they do strength training, cardio, and skill training. But bodybuilders, and powerlifters, don't have much real world application except for lifting something and putting it back down. In situations where all around fitness are more desirable than looking good or lifting really heavy things, crossfit is a better fit. Sure, powerlifting with a cardio routine and a specialized job specific targeted program would be ideal, but not everyone has time for all that and wants a "one size fits good enough approach".
I tried CrossFit for 2 years. It exacerbated my injuries, produced some significant health problems, forced me to rationalize the illogic of the program in public, and set my strength back about 5 years. I'm just now recovering. So I'll be more careful in the future about trying things that actually make no fucking sense.
Not that 5/3/1 is one of these programs. Wendler and I are good friends, and his program works well for a guy in the right stage of training advancement.