Oh For Crying out loud

[DomS]

Anyone remember that thread? Search P&N for 'financial doomsday' and look at the locked thread. The guy is starting to look a bit prescient.

 

[blackangst1]

And all the reasons that statement was shown to be bullshit still hold true.

 

[sandorski]

Wasn't that like 400 days ago?

 

[GrGr]

Well tomorrow will be interesting with Lehman broke, Merrill Lynch in talks to be bought by Bank of America, AIG and Washington Mutual going broke etc and so on...

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Wasn't that like 400 days ago?

No, I have the date marked on my calender at work-it's in late October/early November.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: GrGr
Well tomorrow will be interesting with Lehman broke, Merrill Lynch in talks to be bought by Bank of America, AIG and Washington Mutual going broke etc and so on...

Just announced...Merrill Lynch is no longer a public company. Special on CNBC right now. Fed, as reported by AP, sitting on the current rate with no cuts (stagflation kicking their ass). Might....just might be the worst financial mess in decades. Dow futures down over 250 points right now.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: sandorski
Wasn't that like 400 days ago?

No, I have the date marked on my calender at work-it's in late October/early November.

ah ok. I suppose we'll see then....

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Whatever happens, the only thing we can be sure of is that Dave predicted it.

 

[lac3513]

Failing banks should be allowed to fail. The near term financial pain would be significant. Stakeholders should sue to try and recover losses from stupid executives and the government should stay out of the bailout business and get back into the oversight business. In the long term a stronger financial system would emerge and the CEOs of financial institutions would learn not to count on a
government bailout.

However, the goverment will try to make it look llike they are helping but in the end all they will accomplish is hundreds of billions of dollars added to the defceit. If I hear VP Cheney say again that deficit don't matter I may have to buy gold ingots and keep them under my mattress.

 

[alchemize]

Silver lining - mortgage rates are waaay low again. Helping fix the subprime issue.

 

[Engineer]

AIG now reporting trouble. Turned down private equity and instead turning to the FED for help.....*sigh*.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: GrGr
Well tomorrow will be interesting with Lehman broke, Merrill Lynch in talks to be bought by Bank of America, AIG and Washington Mutual going broke etc and so on...

Just announced...Merrill Lynch is no longer a public company. Special on CNBC right now. Fed, as reported by AP, sitting on the current rate with no cuts (stagflation kicking their ass). Might....just might be the worst financial mess in decades. Dow futures down over 250 points right now.

Don't you understand, the invisible hand of the market will prevent any problems, businesses will act in the interest of keeping everything working fine, and the government has no role to play in any regulation, its well-intended but misguided efforts only cause the crashes, and if you disagree, you love communism?

Or, the market sells the public on false views to get them the room for schemes, and when they crash, the public is left with a big 'you shoulda known better'.

Many well intended businesses are forced by the competitve pressures by others to either take part in the schemes, or they are run out of business.

Maybe that's it, not the corporatist propaganda explanation. Of course, it doesn't necessarily lead to a crash; it might just be to poverty for the masses.

Anyone here who has not yet watched The Corporation (Part 1, Part 2

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: lac3513
Failing banks should be allowed to fail. The near term financial pain would be significant. Stakeholders should sue to try and recover losses from stupid executives and the government should stay out of the bailout business and get back into the oversight business. In the long term a stronger financial system would emerge and the CEOs of financial institutions would learn not to count on a
government bailout.

However, the goverment will try to make it look llike they are helping but in the end all they will accomplish is hundreds of billions of dollars added to the defceit. If I hear VP Cheney say again that deficit don't matter I may have to buy gold ingots and keep them under my mattress.

Sounds great; the problem is when banks fail the system collapses - the near term pain isn't 'sgnificant', it's 'tremendous'.

Failing banks should be rescued from failure, but ownership and management should be hung out to dry. Take over the bank, right it, and re-issue the stock, while confiscating executive compensation (not ordinary salaries, but bonuses, profits from stock/option compensation, and discretionary payouts) retroactively to help offset losses. (Either for a set period, or based on forensic accounting's answer to 'when did they know the ship was sinking?'). This would require changing laws, and it will never happen.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DomS
Anyone remember that thread? Search P&N for 'financial doomsday' and look at the locked thread. The guy is starting to look a bit prescient.

Interesting since I called all this out back in Jan 2007.

 

[alchemize]

I really hope Merrill Lynch fails. Fuckers churned $2 million out of my great uncles account, took advantage of a senile old man.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DomS
Anyone remember that thread? Search P&N for 'financial doomsday' and look at the locked thread. The guy is starting to look a bit prescient.

Interesting since I called all this out back in Jan 2007.

:roll:

 

[Craig234]

Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

 

[nergee]

Originally posted by: Engineer
AIG now reporting trouble. Turned down private equity and instead turning to the FED for help.....*sigh*.

AIG must be deep in Lehman credit default swaps. They are dead....

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

Well, the 'liberal agenda' is a regulated market keeping it serving society's interests and not running off a cliff to profit a few - while profiting people as the grease for themachine.

I tell you, I'm convinced that many or most right-wingers are stuck at the 13 year old level of understanding these issues, once they heard from some propagandist that democrats are against profit, and they realized profit has an important role to play and from then on consider themselves of opponents of the Democratic Party based on that straw man as they defend the nation from communism, not realizing what they're actually doing is enabling the blocking of helpful regulation.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

I don't know who's fault this is, but reducing or eliminating 25 rules/regulations by Fannie/Freddie in 2003 (at the urging of the administration) so that many more people could get mortgages certainly didn't help.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

I don't know who's fault this is, but reducing or eliminating 25 rules/regulations by Fannie/Freddie in 2003 (at the urging of the administration) so that many more people could get mortgages certainly didn't help.

It was absolutely disastrous.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

Well, the 'liberal agenda' is a regulated market keeping it serving society's interests and not running off a cliff to profit a few - while profiting people as the grease for themachine.

I tell you, I'm convinced that many or most right-wingers are stuck at the 13 year old level of understanding these issues, once they heard from some propagandist that democrats are against profit, and they realized profit has an important role to play and from then on consider themselves of opponents of the Democratic Party based on that straw man as they defend the nation from communism, not realizing what they're actually doing is enabling the blocking of helpful regulation.

Craig, what's your education and experience when it comes to finance and the markets? While you like to call me a "13 year old", I have a BS in Finance and an MBA, and I've been in insurance and financial services for 11 years. Because my parody post shows how ignorant you are about a general concept like FDIC and it's purpose.

This has everything to do with firms leveraging capital and chasing the "profits" of subprime. Firms that turned their noses up at the allure of those profits are sitting pretty. Those who did not, as we can see, are getting chewed up and spit out.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

I don't know who's fault this is, but reducing or eliminating 25 rules/regulations by Fannie/Freddie in 2003 (at the urging of the administration) so that many more people could get mortgages certainly didn't help.

It was absolutely disastrous.

For who? (see previous post)

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234
Where are the right-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are federal insurance like FDIC that make borrowers less wary and encourage excessive risk?

If we just get rid of consumer protection like that, then the risk will properly keep businesses from overextending. It's all the Democrats' fault.

Where are all the left-wingers to say that the cause of the problems are the free market? That if we socialized all lending institutations there would be no need for profits?

If we just get rid of profits, then the businesses would keep from overextending. It's all the Republicans fault.

Well, the 'liberal agenda' is a regulated market keeping it serving society's interests and not running off a cliff to profit a few - while profiting people as the grease for themachine.

I tell you, I'm convinced that many or most right-wingers are stuck at the 13 year old level of understanding these issues, once they heard from some propagandist that democrats are against profit, and they realized profit has an important role to play and from then on consider themselves of opponents of the Democratic Party based on that straw man as they defend the nation from communism, not realizing what they're actually doing is enabling the blocking of helpful regulation.

Craig, what's your education and experience when it comes to finance and the markets? While you like to call me a "13 year old", I have a BS in Finance and an MBA, and I've been in insurance and financial services for 11 years. Because my parody post shows how ignorant you are about a general concept like FDIC and it's purpose.

This has everything to do with firms leveraging capital and chasing the "profits" of subprime. Firms that turned their noses up at the allure of those profits are sitting pretty. Those who did not, as we can see, are getting chewed up and spit out.

Deregulation did cause a lot of this.