If they continue like this, you will see us as a country come to a schreeching hault. You think the 1930's were bad...
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
What can be done? Could the government step in and start heavily taxing oil futures? The speculators would probably be pissed, but to be honest I don't really care. Oil prices can't keep increasing like this, it's just insane.Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: moparacer
Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...
I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?
If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............
:disgust:
Part of the shift *IS* because the decline in the dollar due to the ECB stating that they are going to raise rates to counter inflation rather than fighting an economic downturn. This raises interest in Euro denominated assets, lowering interest in dollar ones. Thus, the Euro appreciates relative to the dollar.
As a result of oil being denominated in dollars, it must fall to maintain purchase power parity relative to the euro.
Now, I do believe that speculators are jumping into the market again, betting against the dollar *AND* driving up the price of oil far beyond the relative movement in the dollar.You can see this since oil spiked in the Euro also.
It's a shame really, because they're actually causing a feedback loop into the system, worldwide.
The higher oil goes the more inflation gets pumped into the system, the higher interest rates will go to counter inflation, which drives higher prices of oil.
Something needs to be done about this crap.
Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
What can be done? Could the government step in and start heavily taxing oil futures? The speculators would probably be pissed, but to be honest I don't really care. Oil prices can't keep increasing like this, it's just insane.Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: moparacer
Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...
I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?
If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............
:disgust:
Part of the shift *IS* because the decline in the dollar due to the ECB stating that they are going to raise rates to counter inflation rather than fighting an economic downturn. This raises interest in Euro denominated assets, lowering interest in dollar ones. Thus, the Euro appreciates relative to the dollar.
As a result of oil being denominated in dollars, it must fall to maintain purchase power parity relative to the euro.
Now, I do believe that speculators are jumping into the market again, betting against the dollar *AND* driving up the price of oil far beyond the relative movement in the dollar.You can see this since oil spiked in the Euro also.
It's a shame really, because they're actually causing a feedback loop into the system, worldwide.
The higher oil goes the more inflation gets pumped into the system, the higher interest rates will go to counter inflation, which drives higher prices of oil.
Something needs to be done about this crap.
If they continue like this, you will see us as a country come to a schreeching hault. You think the 1940's were bad...
Originally posted by: cultgag
1. Gas stations only make a minimal profit margin selling gas...It's the cigs and drinks they make money on. So the consumer is not getting "raped."
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
What can be done? Could the government step in and start heavily taxing oil futures? The speculators would probably be pissed, but to be honest I don't really care. Oil prices can't keep increasing like this, it's just insane.
What needs to happen is the CFTC with the SEC and other regulatory bodies need to close down loopholes (such as the London Loop), increase capital requirements for holding futures (for investment banks) and increase reporting (for all publicly held companies). Those 4 actions alone would deflate the bubble very quickly.
Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: cultgag
1. Gas stations only make a minimal profit margin selling gas...It's the cigs and drinks they make money on. So the consumer is not getting "raped."
Just filled up my tank. I kept an eye on the gas station attendant. No funny business. But yet when I drove away I still had a really sore anus.
Just because the gas stations aren't raping me doesn't mean NO ONE is.
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: moparacer
Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...
I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?
If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............
:disgust:
Part of the shift *IS* because the decline in the dollar due to the ECB stating that they are going to raise rates to counter inflation rather than fighting an economic downturn. This raises interest in Euro denominated assets, lowering interest in dollar ones. Thus, the Euro appreciates relative to the dollar.
As a result of oil being denominated in dollars, it must fall to maintain purchase power parity relative to the euro.
Now, I do believe that speculators are jumping into the market again, betting against the dollar *AND* driving up the price of oil far beyond the relative movement in the dollar.You can see this since oil spiked in the Euro also.
It's a shame really, because they're actually causing a feedback loop into the system, worldwide.
The higher oil goes the more inflation gets pumped into the system, the higher interest rates will go to counter inflation, which drives higher prices of oil.
Something needs to be done about this crap.
What can be done?
Could the government step in and start heavily taxing oil futures? The speculators would probably be pissed, but to be honest I don't really care. Oil prices can't keep increasing like this, it's just insane.
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
nearing 5 bucks...4.60 yesterday in the bay area.
its rising way faster than any supposed increase in demand..it can't go on.
The lady in our gas dept says it could jump 21 cents at the pump this weekend.
Start by throwing criminals like Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Start by throwing criminals like Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer in jail.
Prices shot higher on Friday after comments that an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites looks 'unavoidable' from one of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's deputies.
Not possible for some people, unfortunately. Many are changing their habits, though, demand is down and will continue to decrease at these prices.Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
Who cares about gas prices? We all know it's the oil companies inflating their prices but ride a bike, drive a scooter, something. Stop bitching about it and keep the money out of their pockets.
Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
Who cares about gas prices? We all know it's the oil companies inflating their prices but ride a bike, drive a scooter, something. Stop bitching about it and keep the money out of their pockets.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
nearing 5 bucks...4.60 yesterday in the bay area.
its rising way faster than any supposed increase in demand..it can't go on.
No no no, it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
nearing 5 bucks...4.60 yesterday in the bay area.
its rising way faster than any supposed increase in demand..it can't go on.
No no no, it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand it's all supply and demand
is it really? i heard that supply is keeping up with demand, and that known reserves also are. and that the increase in demand has actually slowed down looking at it historically
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Raduque
Maybe we should make futures trading of oil illegal?
So people who have legit reasons for doing so cannot do it?
There are thousands of good reasons why people should be able to hedge using oil futures and it is certainly a huge benefit to the world economy.
sometimes the legit business interests of people have to give way to the practical interests of people. IF speculators are causing this price hikes (and I'm not saying that they are), I think a moratorium on future trading would not be such a bad idea. At the very least, it will show whether they are the source or not.
This market has motored along for hundreds of years in some form or another. Modern futures markets have operated for more than a hundred years with no significant problem. There's only been one time in history that you've seen this type of problem, the Amsterdam Tulip bubble.
The actual futures aren't the real problem, it's a global capital pool that runs from one investment with loopholes to another. From 97-2001 it was the .bombs and the ability to pump and dump stocks. From 2001-2007 it was houses in the ability to pump and dump houses. Now it's futures.
In all cases, all three markets were just fine before everybody went "all in". Merely shutting down the market is a horrible solution, since businesses around the world depend on the futures market to hedge against all sorts of risks. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Multitudes use futures, from your small-town farmer (crop futures) to airlines (fuel futures) to freight companies (fuel futures). All do them for legitimate reasons, reduction of volatility, locking in prices, management of cashflows and balance sheets, investor certainty...etc. Simply cutting them off would not only cause irreperable harm to the function of the financial markets, but would effectively add a massive jolt of volatility into the world markets and corporations.
What needs to happen is the CFTC with the SEC and other regulatory bodies need to close down loopholes (such as the London Loop), increase capital requirements for holding futures (for investment banks) and increase reporting (for all publicly held companies). Those 4 actions alone would deflate the bubble very quickly.
Speculation has a legitimate use in this market. It provides price discovery for all involved and also provides liquidity for people who actually NEED the market. However, due to loopholes and lack of regulation/reporting/limits, it can be abused.
Before advocating such extreme positions you might want to get educated on them a bit more. Extremist positions, such as yours, are quite uninformed and do nothing but cause problems.
Originally posted by: Special K
What would happen if we restricted futures trading to those who actually intend to take physical delivery of the product? Obviously a hedge fund isn't going to ever take physical possesion of oil, yet they are still allowed to buy oil futures. How do they avoid not having to take physical possesion of their commodity when their futures contract comes to date? Do they just sell it off before then?
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
nearing 5 bucks...4.60 yesterday in the bay area.
its rising way faster than any supposed increase in demand..it can't go on.
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
Who cares about gas prices? We all know it's the oil companies inflating their prices but ride a bike, drive a scooter, something. Stop bitching about it and keep the money out of their pockets.
It has almost nothing to do with oil companies themselves. The vast majority of this is hedge funds, i-banks, and regular people trying to "invest" in yet another thing they shouldn't invest in.
Originally posted by: Yreka
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal
Who cares about gas prices? We all know it's the oil companies inflating their prices but ride a bike, drive a scooter, something. Stop bitching about it and keep the money out of their pockets.
It has almost nothing to do with oil companies themselves. The vast majority of this is hedge funds, i-banks, and regular people trying to "invest" in yet another thing they shouldn't invest in.
Like HD-DVD ?