Oil Prices Down

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
I believe the current price of gas is more a reflection on what the oil companies paid for it a week ago. So there is this "lag" effect. Not 100% sure on this.

No, it's just rape of consumers-- nothing more.

'Nuff said..

Gotta love ignorance.

Too bad consumers left their bungholes wide open to be raped.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
I believe the current price of gas is more a reflection on what the oil companies paid for it a week ago. So there is this "lag" effect. Not 100% sure on this.

No, it's just rape of consumers-- nothing more.

'Nuff said..

Gotta love ignorance.

Too bad consumers left their bungholes wide open to be raped.

Please elaborate.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
I believe the current price of gas is more a reflection on what the oil companies paid for it a week ago. So there is this "lag" effect. Not 100% sure on this.

No, it's just rape of consumers-- nothing more.

'Nuff said..

Gotta love ignorance.

Too bad consumers left their bungholes wide open to be raped.

Please elaborate.

Maybe he thinks we should all ride bicycles and run wood furnaces..

 

[ElFenix]

Try to keep the nest quotes under control, guys

ATOT Moderator ElFenix

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Raduque
Maybe we should make futures trading of oil illegal?

So people who have legit reasons for doing so cannot do it?

There are thousands of good reasons why people should be able to hedge using oil futures and it is certainly a huge benefit to the world economy.

sometimes the legit business interests of people have to give way to the practical interests of people. IF speculators are causing this price hikes (and I'm not saying that they are), I think a moratorium on future trading would not be such a bad idea. At the very least, it will show whether they are the source or not.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Raduque
Maybe we should make futures trading of oil illegal?

So people who have legit reasons for doing so cannot do it?

There are thousands of good reasons why people should be able to hedge using oil futures and it is certainly a huge benefit to the world economy.

sometimes the legit business interests of people have to give way to the practical interests of people. IF speculators are causing this price hikes (and I'm not saying that they are), I think a moratorium on future trading would not be such a bad idea. At the very least, it will show whether they are the source or not.

This market has motored along for hundreds of years in some form or another. Modern futures markets have operated for more than a hundred years with no significant problem. There's only been one time in history that you've seen this type of problem, the Amsterdam Tulip bubble.

The actual futures aren't the real problem, it's a global capital pool that runs from one investment with loopholes to another. From 97-2001 it was the .bombs and the ability to pump and dump stocks. From 2001-2007 it was houses in the ability to pump and dump houses. Now it's futures.

In all cases, all three markets were just fine before everybody went "all in". Merely shutting down the market is a horrible solution, since businesses around the world depend on the futures market to hedge against all sorts of risks. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Multitudes use futures, from your small-town farmer (crop futures) to airlines (fuel futures) to freight companies (fuel futures). All do them for legitimate reasons, reduction of volatility, locking in prices, management of cashflows and balance sheets, investor certainty...etc. Simply cutting them off would not only cause irreperable harm to the function of the financial markets, but would effectively add a massive jolt of volatility into the world markets and corporations.

What needs to happen is the CFTC with the SEC and other regulatory bodies need to close down loopholes (such as the London Loop), increase capital requirements for holding futures (for investment banks) and increase reporting (for all publicly held companies). Those 4 actions alone would deflate the bubble very quickly.

Speculation has a legitimate use in this market. It provides price discovery for all involved and also provides liquidity for people who actually NEED the market. However, due to loopholes and lack of regulation/reporting/limits, it can be abused.

Before advocating such extreme positions you might want to get educated on them a bit more. Extremist positions, such as yours, are quite uninformed and do nothing but cause problems.

 

[moparacer]

first it was the refineries (or lack there of) excuse. Then that passed, now its the speculators.

Supply and demand was thrown in there somehwere too. Now oils back up today due to dollar weakness.

If things get too shakey someone just phones in a threat to a Nigerian pipeline.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

This market has motored along for hundreds of years in some form or another. Modern futures markets have operated for more than a hundred years with no significant problem. There's only been one time in history that you've seen this type of problem, the Amsterdam Tulip bubble.

The actual futures aren't the real problem, it's a global capital pool that runs from one investment with loopholes to another. From 97-2001 it was the .bombs and the ability to pump and dump stocks. From 2001-2007 it was houses in the ability to pump and dump houses. Now it's futures.

In all cases, all three markets were just fine before everybody went "all in". Merely shutting down the market is a horrible solution, since businesses around the world depend on the futures market to hedge against all sorts of risks. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Multitudes use futures, from your small-town farmer (crop futures) to airlines (fuel futures) to freight companies (fuel futures). All do them for legitimate reasons, reduction of volatility, locking in prices, management of cashflows and balance sheets, investor certainty...etc. Simply cutting them off would not only cause irreperable harm to the function of the financial markets, but would effectively add a massive jolt of volatility into the world markets and corporations.

What needs to happen is the CFTC with the SEC and other regulatory bodies need to close down loopholes (such as the London Loop), increase capital requirements for holding futures (for investment banks) and increase reporting (for all publicly held companies).

Those 4 actions alone would deflate the bubble very quickly.

Speculation has a legitimate use in this market. It provides price discovery for all involved and also provides liquidity for people who actually NEED the market. However, due to loopholes and lack of regulation/reporting/limits, it can be abused.

Before advocating such extreme positions you might want to get educated on them a bit more. Extremist positions, such as yours, are quite uninformed and do nothing but cause problems.[/quote]

Nice post. I don't agree that it's not criminal but still nice post.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Please elaborate.

If they had closed their legs and realized being a slut is only fun till you get an std, everyone would be driving a 40+ mpg car and wouldn't have moved so far from their place of work. Instead people kept buying behemoth vehicles and driving longer and longer commutes.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Please elaborate.

If they had closed their legs and realized being a slut is only fun till you get an std, everyone would be driving a 40+ mpg car and wouldn't have moved so far from their place of work. Instead people kept buying behemoth vehicles and driving longer and longer commutes.

And how many 40+ mpg vehicles were available for purchase to begin with?

 

[Corporate Thug]

LegendKiller, my suggestion was NOT to close down all futures trading. Just have a moratorium on oil futures and see where that takes us.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: phreaqe
ok, you are totally avoiding it now. he asked if you made money off the recent spike. that is a pretty simple yes or no question.

Here's a hint.

1. Go look through my posts in numerous threads both in OT and P&N about the oil problems. See that I absolutely rail against speculation investments in this area and how I think things need to change in regulatory, transparency, and taxation wise. Ask JS80 and 3cho, as both can verify my positions.

2. Then go look through trollboi's posts on in this area. Notice that he never adds any good commentary, instead he trolls. He accuses. He uses innuendo and he pokes the beehive to get attention. It's why he was banned for a month.


The question was an obvious troll, because even if I answered it he'd merely say the same shit in a different thread, even if I bitchslapped him here (as I always do to him in every thread). Another reason why it was an obvious troll is that anybody who knows me knows what I think. He certainly does know what I think and he still posted that shit.

I am confirming #1. I believe LK does CDOs not commodities HF.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

With shit like this, why aren't you perma-banned yet? You're an obvious troll who adds nothing to a conversation.

I think Dave asks a legitimate question, but I would consider shit like your post attacking him for no reason to be worse than any "trolling" you believe he has done.

I can't help that I add volumes more content than he ever will.

No, you don't. You just contribute different stuff, and crapping on Dave for no reason detracts as much as you think you contribute. The fact that you don't like what he posts is your problem, but it's not an excuse to make it everyone else's.

I'm telling you this as a regular member because I really don't want to go into Mod mode over it. Please take the hint.

lol how are you a senior mod? dave was clearly trolling. LK works with mortgages not futures trading of commodities. he has made this clear yet dave trolls on him.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Raduque
Maybe we should make futures trading of oil illegal?

So people who have legit reasons for doing so cannot do it?

There are thousands of good reasons why people should be able to hedge using oil futures and it is certainly a huge benefit to the world economy.

sometimes the legit business interests of people have to give way to the practical interests of people. IF speculators are causing this price hikes (and I'm not saying that they are), I think a moratorium on future trading would not be such a bad idea. At the very least, it will show whether they are the source or not.

This market has motored along for hundreds of years in some form or another. Modern futures markets have operated for more than a hundred years with no significant problem. There's only been one time in history that you've seen this type of problem, the Amsterdam Tulip bubble.

The actual futures aren't the real problem, it's a global capital pool that runs from one investment with loopholes to another. From 97-2001 it was the .bombs and the ability to pump and dump stocks. From 2001-2007 it was houses in the ability to pump and dump houses. Now it's futures.

In all cases, all three markets were just fine before everybody went "all in". Merely shutting down the market is a horrible solution, since businesses around the world depend on the futures market to hedge against all sorts of risks. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Multitudes use futures, from your small-town farmer (crop futures) to airlines (fuel futures) to freight companies (fuel futures). All do them for legitimate reasons, reduction of volatility, locking in prices, management of cashflows and balance sheets, investor certainty...etc. Simply cutting them off would not only cause irreperable harm to the function of the financial markets, but would effectively add a massive jolt of volatility into the world markets and corporations.

What needs to happen is the CFTC with the SEC and other regulatory bodies need to close down loopholes (such as the London Loop), increase capital requirements for holding futures (for investment banks) and increase reporting (for all publicly held companies). Those 4 actions alone would deflate the bubble very quickly.

Speculation has a legitimate use in this market. It provides price discovery for all involved and also provides liquidity for people who actually NEED the market. However, due to loopholes and lack of regulation/reporting/limits, it can be abused.

Before advocating such extreme positions you might want to get educated on them a bit more. Extremist positions, such as yours, are quite uninformed and do nothing but cause problems.

:roll: lol how much money do you get paid by the oil lobby to post this propaganda?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

LegendKiller, my suggestion was NOT to close down all futures trading. Just have a moratorium on oil futures and see where that takes us.

And I provided you with two very legitimate examples of how companies use the oil futures market.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: JS80

I am confirming #1. I believe LK does CDOs not commodities HF.

I actually work in asset backed commercial paper origination, negotiation and management. I can proudly say we don't have don't have one mortgage securitization in our facility.

 

[moparacer]

Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...

I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?


If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............


:disgust:

 

[Svnla]

I just filled up yesterday afternoon. It went down from $3.74 to $3.71/gal of regular.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
Geez, I remember when $30 a barrel was outrageous. And I aint THAT old.

I still remember $20 or less <in the teens> per barrel in the mid to late 80s. The economy of southern states <heavily depended on oil> such as TX and LA were devastated.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: moparacer
Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...

I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?


If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............


:disgust:

Part of the shift *IS* because the decline in the dollar due to the ECB stating that they are going to raise rates to counter inflation rather than fighting an economic downturn. This raises interest in Euro denominated assets, lowering interest in dollar ones. Thus, the Euro appreciates relative to the dollar.

As a result of oil being denominated in dollars, it must fall to maintain purchase power parity relative to the euro.

Now, I do believe that speculators are jumping into the market again, betting against the dollar *AND* driving up the price of oil far beyond the relative movement in the dollar.You can see this since oil spiked in the Euro also.

It's a shame really, because they're actually causing a feedback loop into the system, worldwide.

The higher oil goes the more inflation gets pumped into the system, the higher interest rates will go to counter inflation, which drives higher prices of oil.

Something needs to be done about this crap.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Please elaborate.

If they had closed their legs and realized being a slut is only fun till you get an std, everyone would be driving a 40+ mpg car and wouldn't have moved so far from their place of work. Instead people kept buying behemoth vehicles and driving longer and longer commutes.

And how many 40+ mpg vehicles were available for purchase to begin with?

Not too many as there was no demand for them besides from a small percentage of the population. Capitalism is only really succesful with informed consumers, and people are apparently to lazy to bother being informed.

 

[MetalMat]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: Oyeve
Geez, I remember when $30 a barrel was outrageous. And I aint THAT old.

I still remember $20 or less <in the teens> per barrel in the mid to late 80s. The economy of southern states <heavily depended on oil> such as TX and LA were devastated.

Happened in the late 90s too.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: moparacer
Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...

I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?

If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............

:disgust:

But Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer is not a criminal :roll:

Approaching $140 by the time the day is done.

$14 rise in one day and not done.

Biggest one day jump in Nymex history on the words of one criminal.

6-6-2008 Prices pushed sharply higher Friday after Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer said he expected strong demand in Asia could drive prices to $150 by Independence Day

The meteoric surge builds on a huge gain the previous day and sets the stage for the biggest two-day gain in the history of the New York Mercantile Exchange.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Dude...this world market is so fucked up.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: moparacer
Well, this thread is completely useless now since oil is up 6.00+ this morning...

I guess fundamentals are driving the market right?


If Morgan Stanley says oil prices could hit $150 - by July 4 surely they will.............


:disgust:

Part of the shift *IS* because the decline in the dollar due to the ECB stating that they are going to raise rates to counter inflation rather than fighting an economic downturn. This raises interest in Euro denominated assets, lowering interest in dollar ones. Thus, the Euro appreciates relative to the dollar.

As a result of oil being denominated in dollars, it must fall to maintain purchase power parity relative to the euro.

Now, I do believe that speculators are jumping into the market again, betting against the dollar *AND* driving up the price of oil far beyond the relative movement in the dollar.You can see this since oil spiked in the Euro also.

It's a shame really, because they're actually causing a feedback loop into the system, worldwide.

The higher oil goes the more inflation gets pumped into the system, the higher interest rates will go to counter inflation, which drives higher prices of oil.

Something needs to be done about this crap.

What can be done? Could the government step in and start heavily taxing oil futures? The speculators would probably be pissed, but to be honest I don't really care. Oil prices can't keep increasing like this, it's just insane.