Opinion Piece on Social Policies

[Keysplayr]

Do keep in mind that Rollo was booted for being a genuine POS troll, not because of his NVFG status.

I understand that. I hope I didn't insinuate otherwise. AFAIK, JFAMD is still a member here although no longer posts.
Anandtech does not require full disclosure of company affiliates. That is up to the company as it is for Nvidia and it's focus group. But I was also told that if it is found out that there is a member here shilling secretly for any company and it is found out, that they would be very quickly banned. Is this not accurate, ViRGE?

 

[ViRGE]

Anandtech does not require full disclosure of company affiliates. That is up to the company as it is for Nvidia and it's focus group. But I was also told that if it is found out that there is a member here shilling secretly for any company and it is found out, that they would be very quickly banned. Is this not accurate, ViRGE?

Shilling is covered under our regular anti-spam/self-promotion policies, which is to say it's an infractionable offense (spambots do get insta-banned for everyone's sanity, however).

To this date we've banned countless spammers, but I cannot recall any established member being banned for self-promotion after being hit with a clue-by-four to remind them of our rules on that matter.

 

[Keysplayr]

Shilling is covered under our regular anti-spam/self-promotion policies, which is to say it's an infractionable offense (spambots do get insta-banned for everyone's sanity, however).

To this date we've banned countless spammers, but I cannot recall any established member being banned for self-promotion after being hit with a clue-by-four to remind them of our rules on that matter.

Maybe you can pass it along to the fellow mods and admins. If there isn't any sanctioning to be handed out then it may encourage, or embolden others to disclose freely and without any fear of reprisal from the establishment. Dealing with fellow members on the other hand, may be a challenge. Just a thought.

 

[SirPauly]

Rollo did great by spreading FUD about his 'favourite' company. His status as a long timer and key opinion leader on forums made him very influential. He managed to push Nvidia brokenware until it was no longer tenable for way longer than what Nvidia could do in the open thru official media channels and without having to pay for it in bad reputation/publicity. On his bad days Rollo's attitude drove away possible customers but in balance Rollo was an asset for Nvidia.

I think forum chatter is way over-rated actually and really believe the noise, division, drama and confusion may make it difficult for an ordinary consumer to receive good information. I think forum regulars place more merit in forums. So many times discussions turn to petty personal sniping instead of the hardware.

Believe the focus may be more-so in having good communication with reviewers and editors.

 

[Jaydip]

I think forum chatter is way over-rated actually and really believe the noise, division, drama and confusion may make it difficult for an ordinary consumer to receive good information. I think forum regulars place more merit in forums. So many times discussions turn to petty personal sniping instead of the hardware.

Believe the focus may be more-so in having good communication with reviewers and editors.

Agreed.

 

[NIGELG]

Like I said I am all for transparency but the behavior of certain Anandrech members who are also members of ABT was downright reprehensible. Anandtech forum members running over there to attack people here is pathetic.It's a way of getting around the rules of this forum and posting things about people they dare not post here.

 

[railven]

Would you rather have never known that Rollo was part of AEG or that JFAMD was an AMD employee?
I understand the term "Ignorance is bliss" and it is a happy place. But not a place I would want to be. "Knowledge is power" is where it is at.

Rollo did the same amount of damage to his credibility before and after exposure. I'm of opinion he did more damage to the credibility of nvidia post exposure - before he was just an nvidia fanboy, afterwards he was a paid nvidia fanboy. JFAMD from the start exposed his affiliation and this gave him some kind of "god complex" where he'd state something and instantly it was truth. You can look up the discussions where he hid behind his AMD shield. It did nothing for the community, he didn't provide anything beside counter points to leaks and speculation (which in the end did nothing but hurt AMD's credibility.) Both examples to me would have faired better for their companies respective image had they remained anonymous. We, the community, would have ignored them. Once they got the badge suddenly fanboys from that team put these people on their shoulders and paraded them around. They can't be wrong - they work for the companies. Right?

Scenario: An engineer is working on a project at AMD. Proud of their work and proud to be a part of their company. They want their company to increase technologically, financially, have a better reputation (especially if this person worked on bulldozer), maybe even wants their stock options to be worth more.
He/she belongs to several online forums and always talks up AMD. Nobody on the forum knows that this person is an engineer, or PR director, manager, or mail room clerk at AMD. AMD's social media policy encourages it's employees to post in forums as long as they are transparent about it stating their affiliation. Now, when this engineer goes home, turns on his PC and enters the forums, he/she is still an employee of AMD. Still proud of their company, still want their company to increase technologically, financially, have a better reputation (especially if this person worked on bulldozer) and still wants their stock to be worth more.

Now consider how many thousands of employees work for AMD worldwide.
Even if 1/10th of 1% of these people post in forums, that is a ton of people that nobody knows about, and you could be talking with right now on a forum here or somewhere else.

Ironically, a non-AMD employee can feel the exact same way. They might have worked at the fabrication plant and saw the technology or been a consultant. Last time I checked not only AMD employees had stock options. In the end, regardless of their affiliation, if they speak bullcrap the community will shun them. If they speak level headed, and provide sources to their claims what reason do we have to accuse them of being employees? Or do you just want to throw accussations at anyone coming here posting positive things about AMD? Do you do the same for nVidia?

You go on to give a scale of the amount of employees AMD - everything in that second paragraph can be applied to nVidia. Or Intel. Or any company. So if we apply it to one, through fairness we apply it to all. Mind you, not everyone is a saint, and not every employee will honor policies - part of being human.

I am not ok with this. You can be all you wish, but I prefer not to be in the dark. I do not want ignorance for the sake of bliss. I prefer to know who I am dealing with just as you know right now that you are speaking to a member of Nvidia focus group. And you know this because it if fully disclosed. And I don't even work for Nvidia. Actual Nvidia employees are absolutely NOT permitted to post in online forums and this is strictly enforced with sanctions. This, is exactly what AMD needs to do. Don't know why anyone would object to this either. At least without a good reason.

Of course you aren't okay with this. No one is. No one here is okay with secret marketers. Most of us don't have an isssue with employees posting. Most of us also don't think it's just AMD employees that are hiding their identities. But, this isn't what this subject is it about. It's about throwing accussations without justification. If we do this to AMD - why aren't we doing the same to other companies? As someone said as of late the CPU section is pro-Intel. Might as well start accusing everyone of being employees interested in their stock options. Your reasoning applies there as well.

 

[Keysplayr]

Rollo did the same amount of damage to his credibility before and after exposure. I'm of opinion he did more damage to the credibility of nvidia post exposure - before he was just an nvidia fanboy, afterwards he was a paid nvidia fanboy. JFAMD from the start exposed his affiliation and this gave him some kind of "god complex" where he'd state something and instantly it was truth. You can look up the discussions where he hid behind his AMD shield. It did nothing for the community, he didn't provide anything beside counter points to leaks and speculation (which in the end did nothing but hurt AMD's credibility.) Both examples to me would have faired better for their companies respective image had they remained anonymous. We, the community, would have ignored them. Once they got the badge suddenly fanboys from that team put these people on their shoulders and paraded them around. They can't be wrong - they work for the companies. Right?



Ironically, a non-AMD employee can feel the exact same way. They might have worked at the fabrication plant and saw the technology or been a consultant. Last time I checked not only AMD employees had stock options. In the end, regardless of their affiliation, if they speak bullcrap the community will shun them. If they speak level headed, and provide sources to their claims what reason do we have to accuse them of being employees? Or do you just want to throw accussations at anyone coming here posting positive things about AMD? Do you do the same for nVidia?

You go on to give a scale of the amount of employees AMD - everything in that second paragraph can be applied to nVidia. Or Intel. Or any company. So if we apply it to one, through fairness we apply it to all. Mind you, not everyone is a saint, and not every employee will honor policies - part of being human.



Of course you aren't okay with this. No one is. No one here is okay with secret marketers. Most of us don't have an isssue with employees posting. Most of us also don't think it's just AMD employees that are hiding their identities. But, this isn't what this subject is it about. It's about throwing accussations without justification. If we do this to AMD - why aren't we doing the same to other companies? As someone said as of late the CPU section is pro-Intel. Might as well start accusing everyone of being employees interested in their stock options. Your reasoning applies there as well.

"It's about throwing accussations without justification."
Bravo!! Exactly!! Because nobody knows who they really are, do they. So everyone who is over the top with defense will be under scrutiny and suspicion. It totally sucks, I agree, but until AMD battens down the hatches and enforces their policy and we start seeing member sigs telling of their affiliation, it isn't going to stop, unfortunately. So, in other words, until it is enforced by AMD, nobody can really believe anything said by an overly positive for AMD poster. That is the message being sent to AMD. Get your house in order, or always face social media suspicion of stealth marketing.
You may agree with me more than you realize Railven. And you may think that AMD is being singled out amongst all the vast number of other companies out there in the tech world or other. But, this is the VC&G forum at Anandtech and the two companies that primarily dominate most discussions in this forum is well known. So don't be surprised if you don't read the call for Micron to be transparent in this forum. One at a time, is what I say.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Like I said I am all for transparency but the behavior of certain Anandrech members who are also members of ABT was downright reprehensible. Anandtech forum members running over there to attack people here is pathetic.It's a way of getting around the rules of this forum and posting things about people they dare not post here.

Sounds like a job for the internet police.

 

[railven]

"It's about throwing accussations without justification."
Bravo!! Exactly!! Because nobody knows who they really are, do they. So everyone who is over the top with defense will be under scrutiny and suspicion. It totally sucks, I agree, but until AMD battens down the hatches and enforces their policy and we start seeing member sigs telling of their affiliation, it isn't going to stop, unfortunately. So, in other words, until it is enforced by AMD, nobody can really believe anything said by an overly positive for AMD poster. That is the message being sent to AMD. Get your house in order, or always face social media suspicion of stealth marketing.

And this is where it keeps returning to - AMD has to enforce their policy. There has been zero proof that AMD employees are shilling here. All we have is an open admission that AMD employees post (and that quote used states this too:

(its the same with employees of companies that intentionally seek to remain unaffiliated, I know some of them privately and I would not "out" them even if they gave me their OK to do so...but yes there are AMD employees in our midst here, and they hide for good reason because there are some truly ugly hateful members in our community, on both sides of the fence)

So it isn't just AMD since this post is the one thrown around to prove the shill theories. Yet you, nor anyone else, is calling out for anyone BUT AMD employees. And I get why.

You may agree with me more than you realize Railven. And you may think that AMD is being singled out amongst all the vast number of other companies out there in the tech world or other. But, this is the VC&G forum at Anandtech and the two companies that primarily dominate most discussions in this forum is well known. So don't be surprised if you don't read the call for Micron to be transparent in this forum. One at a time, is what I say.

Well then, if I agree with you as much as I may realize then the following is true on your end too:
ABT thru false accusations to support his black listing which in the end were proven wrong.
ABT accused ATF Mods of knowingly protecting AMD shills which again hasn't been proven true - it's still open ended.
ABT focused on ATF + AMD because he felt shills were the cause of his black listing, again wrong, and went through great lengths to accuse people (by name) of which at ABT you agreed to, again without any evidence.

Because ALL the actions taken since this started had ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS or FOUNDATION it is now okay to accuse anyone of being a shill - that is what I'm trying to prevent. The companies will enforce their own policies as best they can (and I don't doubt for a second that even employees of nVidia post here without disclosure - and if you ask me for proof, see how we've come full circle).

Prove that AMD is shilling here and you'll have my unfaltering support to rid them. Otherwise, pointing fingers at someone you don't like and calling them a shill is rather petty and belittles your (general you) credibility and worth in the community.

 

[Keysplayr]

And this is where it keeps returning to - AMD has to enforce their policy. There has been zero proof that AMD employees are shilling here. All we have is an open admission that AMD employees post (and that quote used states this too:



So it isn't just AMD since this post is the one thrown around to prove the shill theories. Yet you, nor anyone else, is calling out for anyone BUT AMD employees. And I get why.



Well then, if I agree with you as much as I may realize then the following is true on your end too:
ABT thru false accusations to support his black listing which in the end were proven wrong.
ABT accused ATF Mods of knowingly protecting AMD shills which again hasn't been proven true - it's still open ended.
ABT focused on ATF + AMD because he felt shills were the cause of his black listing, again wrong, and went through great lengths to accuse people (by name) of which at ABT you agreed to, again without any evidence.

Because ALL the actions taken since this started had ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS or FOUNDATION it is now okay to accuse anyone of being a shill - that is what I'm trying to prevent. The companies will enforce their own policies as best they can (and I don't doubt for a second that even employees of nVidia post here without disclosure - and if you ask me for proof, see how we've come full circle).

Prove that AMD is shilling here and you'll have my unfaltering support to rid them. Otherwise, pointing fingers at someone you don't like and calling them a shill is rather petty and belittles your (general you) credibility and worth in the community.

Look, you and I will most likely never see eye to eye. You think you're right, and I thing I'm right. I think we are done as well. I'll agree to disagree rather than 50 bazillion back and forth posts and us ending up in same positions. You have issue with ABT, take it up there.

 

[NIGELG]

" ... nobody can really believe anything said by an overly positive for AMD poster.
.

Well it evens out because ''nobody'' believes anything by an overly positive for Nvidia poster.Some of them make quite outlandish claims.


I can understand why you want these sigs though.You'll get some company in the poundings you get on this site.But the hunters have to prove such AMD 'shills' exist in the first place a la AEG Focus group.

 

[Outrage]

Keys, are you the only one affiliated with nvidia posting on this forum? it has been asked before in this thread, but no answer.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Look, you and I will most likely never see eye to eye. You think you're right, and I thing I'm right. I think we are done as well. I'll agree to disagree rather than 50 bazillion back and forth posts and us ending up in same positions. You have issue with ABT, take it up there.

Actually the burden of proof is on the accuser. What's next, are you going to quote George W. Bush and state "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"? By all means keep digging for those WMDs man, but despite several days and a truckload of "I have proof" statements, I see no evidence. To be honest, I'm convinced we have more registered pedophiles here than viral marketers, but that's a whole different story.

 

[railven]

Look, you and I will most likely never see eye to eye. You think you're right, and I thing I'm right. I think we are done as well. I'll agree to disagree rather than 50 bazillion back and forth posts and us ending up in same positions. You have issue with ABT, take it up there.

I never said I was right, and I don't think I'm right as in my opinion is the only existing one. I'm just presenting my position and answering your questions.

I don't have an issue with ABT, try reading my OP and you'll see - my position hasn't changed. I don't want to get to a point where we'll just accuse people of being shills because they don't say something we agree with. ABT started me on this thought process, and seeing after Apoppin got what he wanted (reconciled with AMD) it seems he won't continue discussing the subject.

You ignore some key points I make, which is fine - since acknowledging them makes your company no better than AMD.

 

[Jaydip]

I said repeatedly many times in this thread that i want transparency from all the companies regardless of color.All the companies should enforce their social media policy and at the same time the posters should have integrity.I agree that's its impossible to enforce policy on a per employee basis but we can always hope for ethical behaviors from these tech giants and their employees.

 

[NIGELG]

I think the editor of ABT is a jackass and always will be.It's insult for insult and I care not if I am banned or warned.He and his minions are stark raving mad,rabid,idiots and they can all take a flying leap into rush hour traffic for all I care.

As long as my name is called on that slimy site I will retaliate..

 

[railven]

This is how it works, because I stated I prefer AMD GPUs:

Let's' call it like it is: The OP of that VC&G thread is a liar who half-quotes us and slanders ABT to defend his admittedly favorite company

Everyone can see right through you to your motive.

Let's start here, because again this is exactly what I'm even posting this subject.

AMD isn't my favorite company. I only own their GPUs because my first GPU was a Rage Pro. My first processor was an Intel 486 DX2. I've own far more Intel processors than I've own AMD (mind you - AMD branded) Radeons. So, yes, clearly this is my favorite company.

As for my motives, glad you can see them. What half truths have I posted here? I've posted my interpretation of ABT's circumstantial evidence, and please look up that word. I've said it to tons of people from the start - irony, ABT can make accusations about ATF but they are "factual" and I can form opinions about ABT but they are "half truths."

I've asked for proof of the shills, I've gotten linked IDC's post which openly states there are other companies' employees posting here too (yet that is ignored.) I'm told about Edelman and their Wal-mart fiasco, yet nVidia and their AEG fiasco removes them from "history will repeat itself."

Read it in his thread that I posted here, his reasoning for not posting it on the front page (clearly viewable) against his own poster's request. You'll see him and keys discuss how Keys is hopping ABT doesn't take it easy just to reconcile with AMD which Apoppin admits is his goal (oh yeah, and to expose shills - work in progress.)

My motives are clear - prove your claims:
ATF harbored Shills got you black listed - busted
ATF Mods knowingly protect AMD shills, it's their MO, - busted
AMD shills post at AMD - no proof, not a single piece of solid evidence.

My favorite company, wow. That's a stretch. Haha.

 

[NIGELG]

He's also a liar ......to quote him''I am done responding to that other forum'',yet he watches this thread like a hawk and edits his posts and responds and quotes...what a tool.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

He's also a liar ......to quote him''I am done responding to that other forum'',yet he watches this thread like a hawk and edits his posts and responds and quotes...what a tool.

Is there really a need to personally attack and name call a member of our forum, posting currently or not?

Whatever he does there is no reason for you to go ape sh!t over it.


Words.

 

[NIGELG]

Is there really a need to personally attack and name call a member of our forum, posting currently or not?

Whatever he does there is no reason for you to go ape sh!t over it.


Words.

I don't intend to join his site to respond.....you are his pal.Tell him to leave me alone and I'll do the same.

I pm'd him on ANANDTECH but got no response....

But it's simple...he stops,I stop.

 

[railven]

Here we go again, same song and dance:

IDC's posts affirm that there are "AMD employees hiding in our midst". You conveniently substitute "other companies" and try to bring Nvidia into it.
You also ignore that it is completely against AMD's OWN policy that requires transparency from ALL posting employees

So, according to this we have to make the conclusion all employees == shills, the same shills that got ABT blacklisted.

Logical fail? Definitely.
Agreeable: AMD employees post here. Questionable: Are some shills? Evidence: Nothing but opinion and conjecture.

My goal has always been to reconcile with AMD - not to embarrass them; we want them to address the fact that their employees post without disclosure. And my blog is on the front page.

Because AMD Harbored Shills at ATF got you black listed? Remember, that was the premise of your article. Yet, in the end, even that was proven wrong.

ATF does harbor shills. Edelman PR speaking for AMD *admitted it* - "we see their posts, we don't care"

Who's posts? ATF member's Post? AMD Shill Posts? Intel Shills Posts? See how this work: again - circumstantional evidence. Learn this word.

Idontcare admitted that AMD employees are hidden there and evidence has been presented; every GTX 680 thread was locked by the shills' uproar - until we pointed it out

Which Shills? There was a lot of back and forth in all the threads. Are you yet agai singling out a handful of posters here? Of course you are, now provide the evidence it was THEM that got the threads locked.

I got an infraction in one of the thread (for admittingly getting involved) I guess I'm a Shill too. As Balla posted there, he got one of the warnings - guess he's a shill too, right?

We know for a fact that hidden AMD employees post at ATF. Your flawed conclusion and screwed up definition of "shill".
Now i will watch you as you slander us some more and half quote me in a weak effort to cover for your own broken moral compass

Moral Compass? I'm not accusing people of anything without proof. I'm not the one crying foul and throwing a whole forum under the bus because I did something that indirectly got me black listed. Even after it was revealed to you that ATF played no role in your black listing you won't even offer an apology or look back at your accusations. And you question my moral compass? Irony guy, irony - it just keeps repeating itself in my head.

 

[Mistwalker]

"It's about throwing accussations without justification."
Bravo!! Exactly!! Because nobody knows who they really are, do they. So everyone who is over the top with defense will be under scrutiny and suspicion.

You have it backwards. You are cheering for policy to justify the accusations, rather than end the accusations without proof.

It totally sucks, I agree, but until AMD battens down the hatches and enforces their policy and we start seeing member sigs telling of their affiliation, it isn't going to stop, unfortunately. So, in other words, until it is enforced by AMD, nobody can really believe anything said by an overly positive for AMD poster. That is the message being sent to AMD. Get your house in order, or always face social media suspicion of stealth marketing.

Two things.

First, everything contained above could just as easily be applied to Nvidia or any other company. Why is AMD being singled out? Because they are the ones being accused of not enforcing their social policy? I remind you these accusations are thus far completely unsubstantiated.

Second, "attack the message, not the messenger." You are endorsing the complete opposite, where one's words cannot be taken on their own merit until the author passes a test validating their integrity to assuage your paranoia.

Fanboys will continue to argue against all reason for their favorite company, regardless of where their paycheck comes from. I would assert that anyone looking to participate in intelligent discourse on a technical forum should be capable of arguing facts and discussing observable, provable information. Knowing who someone works for may make the paranoid feel better, but I don't believe it will meaningfully change the quality or content of most discussions.

One at a time, I say.

You are happy with full transparency but are not bothered in the slightest if it is applied to select companies only, or "in turn"? What policy that could even pretend to be fair has ever gone into effect for "one group at a time" rather than all parties? There is nothing fair, or equal, or balanced in anything you've posted. Please look long and hard at both what you are arguing for here, and why.

I think the editor of ABT is a jackass and always will be.It's insult for insult and I care not if I am banned or warned.

Please don't perpetuate this by sinking to their level. It makes ATF no better than the site you're playing "eye for an eye" with.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I don't intend to join his site to respond.....you are his pal.Tell him to leave me alone and I'll do the same.

I pm'd him on ANANDTECH but got no response....

But it's simple...he stops,I stop.

He's my life partner.

 

[maddie]

I usually check through several sites each morning to see what's available. The only thing ABT achieved was for me to remove them from my favorites list. Visits are the reason for these sites and I refuse. Don't get mad, just ignore them.

Rant and rave as much as you want, I choose to be elsewhere.