Opinion Piece on Social Policies

[Jaydip]

This is not the case.

Well sorry for that.I thought admins and moderators are generally aware of this.

 

[railven]

Moderators can have their personal preferences but overall its quite fair and moderators don't run the show; we do.But i have absolutely no doubt they know some of the forum members among us are AMD marketers.If they really try to protect and promote unwarranted behavior someday it will come to haunt them for sure.This is a tech forum and a playground for enthusiasts and should be left as such.I welcome the marketing guys but they should be transparent.I think it really comes down to us how we want to see marketers among us.

I understand that, and that has been supported before but not for AMD - we had a moderator who was also a member of the Nvidia Focus Group. The Moderation team was aware, and the posters also. However, does that automatically mean the same is happening for AMD (minus holding a moderation post?)

Being enthusiast, we should also have a level of intelligence to rule out the problems. We don't need (or rather shouldn't) moderators to be holding our hands.

The AMD marketers are here because ATF is a popular forum and they have an established fan base here.Moderators allow that because that's not prohibited at all,ATF doesn't force us to reveal our employers identity.Again i can link to numerous thread as i said in a previous post.You are a long time lurker here u should know that.

You have a moderator himself telling you he isn't aware of any. You have another moderator who is active in this process (the investigation) and hasn't named anyone. IDC has gone on record multiple times (yet only one of his statements is repeated over and over) clarifying things.

Yet, it continues to be insinunated that the ATF moderation team (and forum as a whole) is influenced. I ask for proof, you claim you have some, but you tell me to find it.

Maybe the ABT article should focus on the CPU section - not the VC&G. But, then how can he accuse ATF of getting him black listed?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You are what I had in mind when I wrote that post. I'm guessing you don't consider yourself shilling GTX470's?

Have you ever seen me recommend anyone 470s?

I might have been able to do great things with them, but then I'm not exactly typical in what I do.

 

[Jaydip]

I understand that, and that has been supported before but not for AMD - we had a moderator who was also a member of the Nvidia Focus Group. The Moderation team was aware, and the posters also. However, does that automatically mean the same is happening for AMD (minus holding a moderation post?)

Being enthusiast, we should also have a level of intelligence to rule out the problems. We don't need (or rather shouldn't) moderators to be holding our hands.



You have a moderator himself telling you he isn't aware of any. You have another moderator who is active in this process (the investigation) and hasn't named anyone. IDC has gone on record multiple times (yet only one of his statements is repeated over and over) clarifying things.

Yet, it continues to be insinunated that the ATF moderation team (and forum as a whole) is influenced. I ask for proof, you claim you have some, but you tell me to find it.

Maybe the ABT article should focus on the CPU section - not the VC&G. But, then how can he accuse ATF of getting him black listed?

I found the marketing during BD to be a sufficient proof.If NV has a member here why don't u think AMD will do the same?The moderators are not aware doesn't necessarily mean there are not any marketers.We don't have to disclose our employer identity right?But i never found the moderators to be marketers.Yes as enthusiasts we should be more informed but that doesn't mean they can't be influenced.

 

[Arzachel]

Have you ever seen me recommend anyone 470s, unless of course they had a $130 budget and didn't mind noise.

Can't remember, but I do know a lot of times people have gone lol, fermi sucks and you've defended your GTX470's because clearly they've been an amazing buy for the price. The same usually goes with people owning BD.

 

[railven]

I found the marketing during BD to be a sufficient proof.If NV has a member here why don't u think AMD will do the same?The moderators are not aware doesn't necessarily mean there are not any marketers.We don't have disclose our employer identity right?But i never found the moderators to be marketers.

And that's what I, and it seems many, are asking for - evidence. Again, you are just assuming based on experience set by another company. I'm not faulting your logic or reasoning, however, I don't agree with you implying it is known by certain people and encourage/protected. That is misleading.

Claims have been made, not evidence was provide, only reasoning which is not entirely illogical. However, when asking for evidence it just spins into "the shills over there at VC&G are slandering ABT." Or some other tanget versus providing evidence.

Even here, not a single conclusive point has been made. It is all opinonated. We have AMD employees posting here? Sure, AMD needs to enforce it. Some people here shill for AMD? Alright, sure, who - so we can out em and have them removed. All pro-AMD comments over there are pointless now. Oh really? So, indirectly I'm called a shill because I like their products - that's where I draw my line and start asking my questions.

Which still have not been answered. Why did he sit on the information he discovered, AFTER, getting the playbook, realizing what/who iroxor was, and even after taking a stand against nVidia - he still waited until now. Timing, it continues to not work in his favor, and all it is allowing the shill-card to get tossed around with no actual evidence or proof.

 

[blackened23]

I found the marketing during BD to be a sufficient proof.If NV has a member here why don't u think AMD will do the same?The moderators are not aware doesn't necessarily mean there are not any marketers.We don't have to disclose our employer identity right?But i never found the moderators to be marketers.Yes as enthusiasts we should be more informed but that doesn't mean they can't be influenced.

What marketing are you referring to, and what proof do you have that it was influenced directly by AMD versus just being an overzealous user? Heck, i've felt that certain posters long ago in the past were nvidia shills at times just because their viewpoints just seemed outrageous to me, although i've come to regret this since (for calling them out - when they were just fans). On your second point, I was under the impression that the nvidia group was just run by fans. Is that incorrect.

 

[richaron]

Imho this is another example of ~semi justified~ paranoia. Even on this thread I see comments where I think "wtf has this fanboy been smoking? is he paid to be such a dick?". Not trying to call out, just expressing frustration with tunnel vision. I'm sure we all feel people are over the top sometimes, & knowing there have been cases of underhanded social marketing justifies our doubts. It's part of the human condition and the reality of this medium.

Catch 22: if there are dishonest marketers, you can't guilt them into being truthful. If there aren't any, we will still be suspicious of bias. Gotta suck it up.

 

[Jaydip]

And that's what I, and it seems many, are asking for - evidence. Again, you are just assuming based on experience set by another company. I'm not faulting your logic or reasoning, however, I don't agree with you implying it is known by certain people and encourage/protected. That is misleading.

Claims have been made, not evidence was provide, only reasoning which is not entirely illogical. However, when asking for evidence it just spins into "the shills over there at VC&G are slandering ABT." Or some other tanget versus providing evidence.

Even here, not a single conclusive point has been made. It is all opinonated. We have AMD employees posting here? Sure, AMD needs to enforce it. Some people here shill for AMD? Alright, sure, who - so we can out em and have them removed. All pro-AMD comments over there are pointless now. Oh really? So, indirectly I'm called a shill because I like their products - that's where I draw my line and start asking my questions.

Which still have not been answered. Why did he sit on the information he discovered, AFTER, getting the playbook, realizing what/who iroxor was, and even after taking a stand against nVidia - he still waited until now. Timing, it continues to not work in his favor, and all it is allowing the shill-card to get tossed around with no actual evidence or proof.

Being a fan doesn't make u a shill,being not well informed doesn't make u a shill either.I never said moderators at ATF encourage shilling.But like rest of us they are also humans and mistake can be made.Moreover i feel most of the mods here are volunteers right?This mud slinging has been going on for quite some time now and it should just R.I.P.

 

[thilanliyan]

The AMD marketers are here because ATF is a popular forum and they have an established fan base here.Moderators allow that because that's not prohibited at all,ATF doesn't force us to reveal our employers identity.Again i can link to numerous thread as i said in a previous post.You are a long time lurker here u should know that.

You have said this several times now but still have not linked anything or provided any proof. Please do, especially in light of the fact that a mod has denied your claim that they know about it already. I think this is some information they would also like to have, so they can take the appropriate actions.

 

[Jaydip]

What marketing are you referring to, and what proof do you have that it was influenced directly by AMD versus just being an overzealous user? Heck, i've felt that certain posters long ago in the past were nvidia shills at times just because their viewpoints just seemed outrageous to me, although i've come to regret this since (for calling them out - when they were just fans). On your second point, I was under the impression that the nvidia group was just run by fans. Is that incorrect.

We have posters here from different companies intel,NV,asus so why can't be there any poster from AMD's side?BD marketting seemed like very well coordinated to be run by some overzealous fans.Well probably 99.99% of them were really overzealous but the rest not so sure.Well i respect my forum posters and if they are hurt by my comments I'm sorry.I will refrain from referring to these incidents in future.This whole mud slinging is getting quite tiresome.I thought NFG was run in-house?

 

[Jaydip]

You have said this several times now but still have not linked anything or provided any proof. Please do, especially in light of the fact that a mod has denied your claim.

I already addressed that in a previous post.

 

[thilanliyan]

I already addressed that in a previous post.

So you have no proof, just your hypothesis? You are doing the same thing ABT is doing.

I don't disagree with your assertion that there are AMD employees posting in these forums, but whether they are actual shills is the big question, and you have to provide some proof if you're going to make such a claim.

 

[Jaydip]

So you have no proof, just your hypothesis? You are doing the same thing ABT is doing.

I don't disagree with your assertion that there are AMD employees posting in these forums, but whether they are actual shills is the big question, and you have to provide some proof if you're going to make such a claim.

I never thought the AMD employees are shills.Why should i have such disrespect for an employee of another company?AMD is a reputable company and i have respect for them.But again if they are influencing one's purchasing decision they should identify themselves.Thats a request really.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Can't remember, but I do know a lot of times people have gone lol, fermi sucks and you've defended your GTX470's because clearly they've been an amazing buy for the price. The same usually goes with people owning BD.

Are you saying nearly 13k GPU score for cards that are going for $130 or less now isn't worth talking about?

I don't see anyone in the 7850 threads talking about how most of them won't hit 1300Mhz, and their 6k gpu score for $260 isn't that great of a deal compared to what else is on the market.

 

[railven]

So to satisfy Apoppin's request - who here are the AMD employees? Does anyone know? Outside of stating AMD SHOULD enforce their own policy, what else do we as posters do?

Until AMD, or someone, exposes these AMD employees - I guess can only go by the author's own implications:

These are the real issues. However, since the problem is with stealth AMD viral employees, no one will get a fair discussion at their "home" at VC&G.

And that is what it all boils down to in the end.

Exert from the article:

Evidently AMD’s posted social media policy is very similar to Intel’s. Unfortunately, the issue that AlienBabelTech (ABT) has with AMD is that their employees do freely post on tech forums without identifying themselves and that they disparage AMD’s competitors. This actually lead to AMD’s blacklisting of ABT as a review site when we pointed this impropriety out to AMD. How did this come to happen?

He got himself blacklisted - in his own words. And now he is accusing ATF (and their shills - it is their "home" afterall) of being responsible.

That's the simplicity of this crusader, it seems. No more evidence will be provided since, there is none, and what has been set forth is all circumstantional. Where do we go from here?

 

[thilanliyan]

I never thought the AMD employees are shills.

I never said you said that. At least, you never said ALL AMD employees on these forums are shills.

But again if they are influencing one's purchasing decision they should identify themselves.Thats a request really.

THIS you did imply, and several people have asked you to link to threads where you think this has occurred but you have not done so, for whatever reason.

Let me reiterate there is a difference between an fanboy and a shill. I can be a fanboy and try to influence someone's purchasing decision, that doesn't mean I'm a shill. Whatever suspicious posting you may have seen on the forums could be a case of a fanboy...not necessarily a shill.

 

[Jaydip]

So to satisfy Apoppin's request - who here are the AMD employees? Does anyone know? Outside of stating AMD SHOULD enforce their own policy, what else do we as posters do?

Until AMD, or someone, exposes these AMD employees - I guess can only go by the author's own implications:



And that is what it all boils down to in the end.

Exert from the article:



He got himself blacklisted - in his own words. And now he is accusing ATF (and their shills - it is their "home" afterall) of being responsible.

That's the simplicity of this crusader, it seems. No more evidence will be provided since, there is none, and what has been set forth is all circumstantional. Where do we go from here?

I think this discussion is getting counter productive.During this time i have probably blamed many innocent posters for being associated with AMD marketing and not identifying themselves.I think we should stop this mud slinging.

 

[Jaydip]

I never said you said that. At least, you never said ALL AMD employees on these forums are shills.



THIS you did imply, and several people have asked you to link to threads where you think this has occurred but you have not done so, for whatever reason.

Let me reiterate there is a difference between an fanboy and a shill. I can be a fanboy and try to influence someone's purchasing decision, that doesn't mean I'm a shill. Whatever suspicious posting you may have seen on the forums could be a case of a fanboy...not necessarily a shill.

Yeah they can be fanbois and that is the sole reason i have never linked to those threads.I may be mistaken and i don't want to start a war of suspicion.

 

[railven]

I think this discussion is getting counter productive.During this time i have probably blamed many innocent posters for being associated with AMD marketing and not identifying themselves.I think we should stop this mud slinging.

I just refer to them as fanboys - well in my head, I try not to call them that in a post.

What I understand based on my own experience as an employee who signed a Social Media Policy is - my employer doesn't dictate my every move. And I honor their policies to a level in which I can complete my work process and duties.

However, once I leave my job - them policies to me are no longer applying. Maybe my interpretation is wrong, but that's how I see it. Unless I signed some NDA - my opinion is just that, mine. And if someone doesn't like it and they start accusing me of being influenced well that's something I'd take to heart (even if it's just the internet.)

EDIT: Because that's how I see it, if an AMD employee does post here in his/her own free time (ie not paid to post in forums) I have no reason to require them to disclose their affiliation. And if they promote their product insanely, I'd just ignore them - like I do the fanboys.

 

[Grooveriding]

Well at least no one is accusing the blatant nvidia fanboys who will never so much as show a glimmer of recommendation or positivity towards an AMD product of being viral shills. That must be acceptable until nvidia cuts him off too.

Not too long ago someone here tried to insinuate a poster here was part of an ATI focus group. Someone who I've seen post here positively about products from both AMD and nvidia, maybe he has a preference but so what ? There is no shortage of posters here like that from either side, and he is nowhere close to the sort of blinders on, I hate the other team and will never touch their products sort of fanboy that is the worst of the bunch. He went ahead and felt the need to make a huge post explaining how he was no such thing even though he didn't need to.

All a product of the sour grapes at ABT and the sparse few who actually buy into that unsubstantiated garbage and enjoy bringing the stink of it into these forums. That guy needs to put up or shut up. Otherwise he ought to come to terms with his rage about whatever negative experiences he had on the forums here. Maybe then he'll stop trying to build a house of cards to explain what was probably his own fault in getting cut off.

 

[Jaydip]

I just refer to them as fanboys - well in my head, I try not to call them that in a post.

What I understand based on my own experience as an employee who signed a Social Media Policy is - my employer doesn't dictate my every move. And I honor their policies to a level in which I can complete my work process and duties.

However, once I leave my job - them policies to me are no longer applying. Maybe my interpretation is wrong, but that's how I see it. Unless I signed some NDA - my opinion is just that, mine. And if someone doesn't like it and they start accusing me of being influenced well that's something I'd take to heart (even if it's just the internet.)

EDIT: Because that's how I see it, if an AMD employee does post here in his/her own free time (ie not paid to post in forums) I have no reason to require them to disclose their affiliation. And if they promote their product insanely, I'd just ignore them - like I do the fanboys.

My employer is probably watching my posts who knows:biggrin:
Like i said i don't have to identify myself as long as i don't enter into work related discussions and if i do, well i have to start a job search right away
If we have posters like JFAMD that would really enhance the quality of our forums.Outside the job i am a free man(is is true?:biggrin but i don't go breaking their policies or else i will have to break something else

 

[railven]

Since I am reading both threads (only to try to keep the post going and on subject) I've been trying to keep a clean communication portal open (best I can, at least.)

There is no "if" about it. AMD employees DO post at ATF without disclosure. And AMD's allowing this to happen has undermined trust in the tech communities. ABT's role is to expose this and to force positive change in the tech communities

I agree to an extent, as I've been saying from the start, and mostly because it is a single narrow focal view. The same reason that was used to even start the accusations can be said of any company, and that is a fact.

Even if these companies have social media policies - we aren't garaunteed that all their employees follow them. One example here was already presented of a poster who has no clear disclaimers and we only know he is an employee of a company because of the content of his post. Pull any random post from him and you probably won't be able to tell.

The focus here is what in a sense bothers me, not because I support AMD-GPUs (frankly I just use their products, not like I live or die by them), but more so it became so easy to just throw accusations around. The "evidence" that was used to support the accusations were so poorly woven together anyone who watches Law and Order could bust a hole through. IDC still clarified on his posts, and not once has his follows up been quoted.

It just seems we're chasing shadows or something. While trying to figure out who may or may not be shills or influential employees we sort of threw everyone who shared a similar opinion into the fires - and that is what I'm, as a poster, am against.

 

[railven]

My employer is probably watching my posts who knows:biggrin:
Like i said i don't have to identify myself as long as i don't enter into work related discussions and if i do, well i have to start a job search right away
If we have posters like JFAMD that would really enhance the quality of our forums.Outside the job i am a free man(is is true?:biggrin but i don't go breaking their policies or else i will have to break something else

I'm still sour on JFAMD only because to me that just made me relive the whole Rollo situation. I saw forum posters attacking each other and using JFAMD's post as source material to justify the claims.

In th end JFAMD decieved us all (again, intent - I won't argue) and in my opinion it hurt the community more than his participation ever helped. EDIT: You still see the reprecussions now. Someone will say something and someone will dismiss their opinion because they used JFAMD's posts as source material, even though that person was decieved as well.

I'd rather he had remained anonymous so that he would have just been disregarded as a loud-mout fanboy. It's once he said he worked for AMD that people put weight on his posts.

I think this is one of the benefits of being anonymous has. And, I do realize - it's a double edged sword, there will be people ready to abuse it. It's the communities job to filter those people out.

 

[busydude]

I'm still sour on JFAMD only because to me that just made me relive the whole Rollo situation. I saw forum posters attacking each other and using JFAMD's post as source material to justify the claims.

In th end JFAMD decieved us all (again, intent - I won't argue) and in my opinion it hurt the community more than his participation ever helped.

I'd rather he had remained anonymous so that he would have just been disregarded as a loud-mout fanboy. It's once he said he worked for AMD that people put weight on his posts.

I think this is one of the benefits of being anonymous has. And, I do realize - it's a double edged sword, there will be people ready to abuse it. It's the communities job to filter those people out.

To be fair, he was just relaying information that is being passed onto him from his engineers. You can find JFAMD's posts... post-BD release.

Although he made it clear that he is an AMD employee, he did in his own time. AMD did not pay him for his posts made here...