Originally posted by: Sunner
While I certainly don't agree with much of what Sultan says around here, I agree that bin Laden's speech actually made perfect sense, so long as you're capable of looking at it from his perspective.
Labeling his as a madman is just simple minded, he's hardly mad, and hardly stupid, probably quite the opposite on both counts, a very convinced man with a purpose and the will to reach his goals.
Now of course most people won't agree with his goals(actually many may agree with the goals, but not the means), but that's a completely different thing.
Also, to think western civilization would do just fine if a large portion of the world's oil supplies suddenly went away is just naive.
If we were told that it would go away in 20 years, we might(but that's a big might) be able to adapt in time, but if it happened suddenly? No way.
You sound just like the scientists that were forecasting gloom and doom when our population hit 3 billion. Yet we're still fine, and it didn't take "20 years". I bet you put on your tinfoil hat for Y2K as well... So preach on brotha!Originally posted by: Sunner
While I certainly don't agree with much of what Sultan says around here, I agree that bin Laden's speech actually made perfect sense, so long as you're capable of looking at it from his perspective.
Labeling his as a madman is just simple minded, he's hardly mad, and hardly stupid, probably quite the opposite on both counts, a very convinced man with a purpose and the will to reach his goals.
Now of course most people won't agree with his goals(actually many may agree with the goals, but not the means), but that's a completely different thing.
Also, to think western civilization would do just fine if a large portion of the world's oil supplies suddenly went away is just naive.
If we were told that it would go away in 20 years, we might(but that's a big might) be able to adapt in time, but if it happened suddenly? No way.
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
You sound just like the scientists that were forecasting gloom and doom when our population hit 3 billion. Yet we're still fine, and it didn't take "20 years". I bet you put on your tinfoil hat for Y2K as well... So preach on brotha!Originally posted by: Sunner
While I certainly don't agree with much of what Sultan says around here, I agree that bin Laden's speech actually made perfect sense, so long as you're capable of looking at it from his perspective.
Labeling his as a madman is just simple minded, he's hardly mad, and hardly stupid, probably quite the opposite on both counts, a very convinced man with a purpose and the will to reach his goals.
Now of course most people won't agree with his goals(actually many may agree with the goals, but not the means), but that's a completely different thing.
Also, to think western civilization would do just fine if a large portion of the world's oil supplies suddenly went away is just naive.
If we were told that it would go away in 20 years, we might(but that's a big might) be able to adapt in time, but if it happened suddenly? No way.
Originally posted by: Sunner
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
You sound just like the scientists that were forecasting gloom and doom when our population hit 3 billion. Yet we're still fine, and it didn't take "20 years". I bet you put on your tinfoil hat for Y2K as well... So preach on brotha!Originally posted by: Sunner
While I certainly don't agree with much of what Sultan says around here, I agree that bin Laden's speech actually made perfect sense, so long as you're capable of looking at it from his perspective.
Labeling his as a madman is just simple minded, he's hardly mad, and hardly stupid, probably quite the opposite on both counts, a very convinced man with a purpose and the will to reach his goals.
Now of course most people won't agree with his goals(actually many may agree with the goals, but not the means), but that's a completely different thing.
Also, to think western civilization would do just fine if a large portion of the world's oil supplies suddenly went away is just naive.
If we were told that it would go away in 20 years, we might(but that's a big might) be able to adapt in time, but if it happened suddenly? No way.
So tell me, what are we going to do if all of a sudden, 10m barrels per day disapears?
Are you seriously that naive?
And maybe you haven't noticed, but a majority of the nearly 6 billion people living on this planet aren't "fine" by our standards.
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Sunner
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
You sound just like the scientists that were forecasting gloom and doom when our population hit 3 billion. Yet we're still fine, and it didn't take "20 years". I bet you put on your tinfoil hat for Y2K as well... So preach on brotha!Originally posted by: Sunner
While I certainly don't agree with much of what Sultan says around here, I agree that bin Laden's speech actually made perfect sense, so long as you're capable of looking at it from his perspective.
Labeling his as a madman is just simple minded, he's hardly mad, and hardly stupid, probably quite the opposite on both counts, a very convinced man with a purpose and the will to reach his goals.
Now of course most people won't agree with his goals(actually many may agree with the goals, but not the means), but that's a completely different thing.
Also, to think western civilization would do just fine if a large portion of the world's oil supplies suddenly went away is just naive.
If we were told that it would go away in 20 years, we might(but that's a big might) be able to adapt in time, but if it happened suddenly? No way.
So tell me, what are we going to do if all of a sudden, 10m barrels per day disapears?
Are you seriously that naive?
And maybe you haven't noticed, but a majority of the nearly 6 billion people living on this planet aren't "fine" by our standards.
How is the oil going to suddenly vanish 'all of a sudden'?
Originally posted by: Sunner
It was a hypothetical question, I don't think it will disappear all of a sudden, I'm just curious exactly how SP33Demon thinks we'll be able to cope with such a loss.
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Sunner
It was a hypothetical question, I don't think it will disappear all of a sudden, I'm just curious exactly how SP33Demon thinks we'll be able to cope with such a loss.
Does everyone's comments about Osama bin Laden's speech have to revolve around oil?
So tell me, what are we going to do if all of a sudden, 10m barrels per day disapears?
Originally posted by: JImmyK
OBL should be flogged and shot no doubt bout it.
BUT what a common misconception is: we believe that our attacking afghanistan/iraq is a effect of their bombing our towers.
To them their bombing our towers is actually an effect from our previous injustices. Its all like the chicken and the egg, but this is much more clear cut, we kicked first and then they responded... and obviously since we are the greatest and strongest we will kick first and kick last.. be it unfair but such is life.
Originally posted by: LunarRay
If a dirty nukes were detonated in the various Mid-East oil fields.. little nukes... the oil supply would vanish not the oil.
edit: but even destroying the gizmos that extract it would cause havoc for a year or two..
Say what you want to about OBL, but he knows his history.
Reading it does bring some insight into why people could be lured into believing and following him:
America's interests do not always fall in line democratic ideals - that is, universal democracy. Hence we have America supporting a dictator in Pakistan, and supporting the Saudi monarchy.
So it has done things that impacted people negatively.
I can't help but be impressed by that statement. Doesn't sound like the rantings of a Madman at all, it is well reasoned and stated eloquently. I think everyone would be wise to at least consider whether what he states is the truth and not knee-jerk out of a sense of Revenge, Nationalist fervor, or some giddy "my dad can beat your dad up" nonsense. This statement strikes me as the gist of what George Washington would say to the King of England or what a President might say to Declare a War on another nation. It definitaley isn't a Rant or a Whine, it is a Warning with Justification.
What really irritates me is that it has taken almost a month for this full transcript to come out, and that it came out more than two weeks after the election. I blame this failure completely upon the US media. The day the tape was released I was home sick watching TV. I immediately switched to CNN-nothing but two talking heads discussing the tape and how it may affect the US election. No reporting of the substance of the message. I switched to Fox-same thing (from a different angle). I watched the major network evening news programs that night-essentially the same thing, but by then they were reporting a few, very brief tidbits. The newspaper the next day, same thing. Even newsmagazines, like Time and Newsweek failed to carry any meaningful excerpt from the transcript.
I have long felt that the administration's description of OBL's motives ("he hates our freedom") is total BS. OBL has been remarkably successful in the Arab world because he is casting his actions as defensive measures against allegedly US aggression and incursions. I don't agree with him but have long felt that in order to defeat your enemy you must understand his motives. Deluding ourselves and wasting our armies and finances on misadventures like Iraq does nothing more than play right into OBL's hands.
While I certainly don't agree with much of what Sultan says around here, I agree that bin Laden's speech actually made perfect sense, so long as you're capable of looking at it from his perspective.
Labeling his as a madman is just simple minded, he's hardly mad, and hardly stupid, probably quite the opposite on both counts, a very convinced man with a purpose and the will to reach his goals.
Now of course most people won't agree with his goals(actually many may agree with the goals, but not the means), but that's a completely different thing.
Also, to think western civilization would do just fine if a large portion of the world's oil supplies suddenly went away is just naive.
If we were told that it would go away in 20 years, we might(but that's a big might) be able to adapt in time, but if it happened suddenly? No way.
OBL should be flogged and shot no doubt bout it.
BUT what a common misconception is: we believe that our attacking afghanistan/iraq is a effect of their bombing our towers.
To them their bombing our towers is actually an effect from our previous injustices. Its all like the chicken and the egg, but this is much more clear cut, we kicked first and then they responded... and obviously since we are the greatest and strongest we will kick first and kick last.. be it unfair but such is life.