Our supposed EV future....(updated)

[FelixDeCat]

(I posted this in another thread but it might also be good here)

I've been wondering about this electrified car future we are supposed to heading for. I've been driving for over 30 years and I've been through a lot from dead car batteries, pushing cars that ran out of gas, calling AAA, etc.

Since people will do things like forget to plug in their car overnight that has a low charge and they barely make it to work on time but the car is dead or they are out somewhere and run out of juice short of charging station, what do they do?

Once everyone is expected to own an EV are you going to see stranded cars everywhere?

And what about mobile charging? Normally when you go to a gas station, it only takes about 5 minutes to fill up completely and be good for two weeks and 300+ miles. If there is an extended blackout are you just f-d?

But can you imagine sitting at the gas station for 20-40 minutes?!! I cant.


Edit 2/28/21 -

Here are other additional concerns with regard to EVs and why they will likely never work as a primary mode of transportation beyond mass transportation or urban centers :

1) Infrastructure problems and trip planning if you want to get on the freeway, especially during the holidays. Leave your EV at home and rent an ICE car.

2) EVs are damaging to the environment - Lithium batteries are not re-recyclable on a large scale, but attempts are being made to do so, so this may get better over time.

3) Expensive and difficult to repair - If you own an electric car, you can forget going to your local shop or fixing it inexpensively. Regardless of the type and the model, all-electric vehicles require specific maintenance and service procedures as well as extremely high safety standards. Shade tree mechanics need not apply.

4) Very dangerous fire hazard OR might kill a first responder - Servicing electric cars can be quite dangerous because most of the car’s mechanics consist of battery packs under high voltage. Also, in case of a fire, you can’t just put it out with water. You have to use a special fire extinguisher since the batteries burn at a much higher temperature.

Battery packs can burn for DAYS or can re-ignite on fire days later.

"High-voltage batteries can give electric shocks that can kill responders if touched" :

NTSB Report: Electric Vehicle Fires Endanger Emergency Responders

Because of the way electric vehicle fires burn first responders are endangering themselves. The high-voltage lithium-ion battery fires can’t be

www.motorbiscuit.com

Edit 3/2/21

War against ICE transportation begins in earnest in CA:

A California city just voted to ban new gas stations as the state eyes an all-electric future

California plans to ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035. Petaluma's city council decided to outlaw the construction of new gas stations.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[thedarkwolf]

1. You just get towed to a DC fast charger and dropped off and then charge long enough to get home/work/whatever which hopefully isn't very long and then charge the rest of the way there.
2. Mobil charger. Van/truck with big ass battery that gets you charged up enough to reach a DC fast charger/home and repeat #1.
3. Well I'll ad a 3rd just get towed home and plug in there.

20-40 mins at a DC fast charger is a lot of range so you shouldn't need that unless you were on a trip and didn't quite make it to the next dc fast charger.

 

[ondma]

1. You just get towed to a DC fast charger and dropped off and then charge long enough to get home/work/whatever which hopefully isn't very long and then charge the rest of the way there.
2. Mobil charger. Van/truck with big ass battery that gets you charged up enough to reach a DC fast charger/home and repeat #1.
3. Well I'll ad a 3rd just get towed home and plug in there.

20-30 mins at a DC fast charger is a lot of range so you shouldn't need that unless you were on a trip and didn't quite make it to the next dc fast charger.

Yea, I have a lot of reservations for EVs for long trips. They are fine for a second car for daily driving. Hopefully, the new administration with its push toward green energy will focus a lot of attention and funds to beefing up the EV charging infrastructure. There will also have to be a huge increase in electrical generation capacity, especially in states like California that already have rolling blackouts without a huge load from EVs.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

The big question is the public charging network, or the complete and total lack thereof. I don't see Apartments electrifying 50% of there parking spots to allow overnight charging for residents like homeowners will have - will every Apt dweller be pushed to public charging stations? Will every work parking lot be equipped with a significant number of charging stations ~ 25% of spots?

Infrastructure and the power grid to supply the charging that people will need- If the sun aint shining and the wind aint blowing - fire up the NG or Coal. Nuclear is the solution but its too scary!

For those in cold climates - have you seen the 7-day forecast for Chicago/Milwaukee/Detroit/Minneapolis areas. Highs of 5 lows of -10. Whats the range for a long range 275 mile electric vehicle in that weather? 100 miles? Oh and forgot about "self driving" if there is snow on the road and cameras cant see the lanes...

 

[thedarkwolf]

Go watch some of Bjorn Nyland videos from Norway. He does a lot of extreme cold weather testing of EVs and it is no where near as big of a hit as you think. The EVs with heat pumps do a lot better but even resistance heaters are no where near that bad.

If you do a bunch of short trips with time in between for everything to cool down and have to heat back up you can eat up a lot of range but if you are starting with 200+ that isn't going to be an issue either.

EV charging spots will start to become a selling point for apartments so yeah they will start adding some. Nothing is going to happen over night though.

 

[FelixDeCat]

The big question is the public charging network, or the complete and total lack thereof. I don't see Apartments electrifying 50% of there parking spots to allow overnight charging for residents like homeowners will have - will every Apt dweller be pushed to public charging stations? Will every work parking lot be equipped with a significant number of charging stations ~ 25% of spots?

Infrastructure and the power grid to supply the charging that people will need- If the sun aint shining and the wind aint blowing - fire up the NG or Coal. Nuclear is the solution but its too scary!

For those in cold climates - have you seen the 7-day forecast for Chicago/Milwaukee/Detroit/Minneapolis areas. Highs of 5 lows of -10. Whats the range for a long range 275 mile electric vehicle in that weather? 100 miles? Oh and forgot about "self driving" if there is snow on the road and cameras cant see the lanes...

Charging stations at work and at apartments. Im sure they will be provided for free....

Yet another expense that will turn out to be more expensive than plain old gasoline.

 

[jlee]

Charging stations at work and at apartments. Im sure they will be provided for free....

Yet another expense that will turn out to be more expensive than plain old gasoline.

Pull the tens of billions of dollars in subsidies that the oil & gas industry gets and divert that to EV infrastructure and it might not turn out the way you think.

 

[Brainonska511]

EV charging spots will start to become a selling point for apartments so yeah they will start adding some. Nothing is going to happen over night though.

Not only that, but I'm sure you'll start to see more charging stations where people spend modest amounts of time - more at strip malls and supermarkets. People act like the currently built environment for ICE vehicles and driving everywhere happened overnight, and if we can't change it overnight to something else, we should just throw up our hands.

 

[mindless1]

I did not read other replies so mine may be redundant, but, it's all nonsense.

EVs are not taking over the world, are no going to be sustainable because of the materials needed for the batteries and escalating cost once the low handing fruit method of mining them is exhausted.

Recognize that they are 2% of the market, a little more if considering global adaptation. That's a laughably low % that signifies government intervention and toys for the rich who already own more suitable vehicles.

It's still the same situation as it always was, that adoption by the masses depends on a better battery tech that reduces cost, or major infrastructure changes that include electrified power rails in highways to reduce the amount of battery capacity needed so it only needs to go the last few miles, since the infrastructure needs improved anyway before everyone could own/charge one.

When you have to put this much thought and money into it, it is an obvious sign that it is not ready for prime time. Even ICE vehicles, at lower cost, kept rising in average age of vehicles still on the road. Higher cost to get from point A to B, is not a tech advancement. It's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Please just stop wasting time on EV daydreaming until there is a battery tech viable for the masses. All the workarounds are a sign of how ridiculous it is, not solutions. Jumping through hoops is for circus animals.

I am fully aware of the technical issues and do adopt tech when it is ripe for the taking. I have cordless tools, vacuum, phone, etc. Vehicles, are still not there yet except in special use cases.

 

[mindless1]

Yea, I have a lot of reservations for EVs for long trips. They are fine for a second car for daily driving. Hopefully, the new administration with its push toward green energy will focus a lot of attention and funds to beefing up the EV charging infrastructure.

The very very very very VERY last thing I want my tax money spent on, is making it easier for the rich to power their toys. Many years into the future when a substantial % of the population uses EVs, it will be a different matter. We could say it's a chicken and egg scenario about which needs to happen first, but that's not really significant because far more people have a driving cycle compatible with EVs already, without needing charging away from home, than have bought one.

This is not "green energy", that is a lie. This has nothing at all to do with how that energy is generated. It is most likely that the owner of an EV, is less green with their total footprint than the person who kept up their ICE vehicle.

They are not made or fueled by magical pixie dust. It is senseless waste, when what we really need is, literally, to repopulate vegetation to achieve a planetary balance. Wishful thinking, marketing lies, and manipulating numbers does not achieve that.

 

[Commodus]

I did not read other replies so mine may be redundant, but, it's all nonsense.

EVs are not taking over the world, are no going to be sustainable because of the materials needed for the batteries and escalating cost once the low handing fruit method of mining them is exhausted.

Recognize that they are 2% of the market, a little more if considering global adaptation. That's a laughably low % that signifies government intervention and toys for the rich who already own more suitable vehicles.

It's still the same situation as it always was, that adoption by the masses depends on a better battery tech that reduces cost, or major infrastructure changes that include electrified power rails in highways to reduce the amount of battery capacity needed so it only needs to go the last few miles, since the infrastructure needs improved anyway before everyone could own/charge one.

When you have to put this much thought and money into it, it is an obvious sign that it is not ready for prime time. Even ICE vehicles, at lower cost, kept rising in average age of vehicles still on the road. Higher cost to get from point A to B, is not a tech advancement. It's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Please just stop wasting time on EV daydreaming until there is a battery tech viable for the masses. All the workarounds are a sign of how ridiculous it is, not solutions. Jumping through hoops is for circus animals.

I am fully aware of the technical issues and do adopt tech when it is ripe for the taking. I have cordless tools, vacuum, phone, etc. Vehicles, are still not there yet except in special use cases.

I read this and could only hear "cars aren't going to take over the world, they're only 2% of the market! There aren't enough gas stations, and fuel production isn't where it needs to be. Horses are cheaper to run and can be fed almost anywhere, so let's stick with them."

In other words, you're confusing the way things are at this exact moment in time with the way things are going.

No, EVs aren't ready to dominate the market yet, but you're saying this not long after Tesla started taking preorders for an EV with a 520-mile range, and before that outlined a goal of having a $25,000 car ready by around 2023 (give or take a year). Both Tesla and rivals like GM have been developing new battery designs that would both be more efficient and reduce the need for materials like cobalt.

Technological progress tends to have tipping points, where something remains an outlier limited to early adopters... until it suddenly isn't. Remember early smartphones? Only a handful of people had them, but then iPhone/Android hit and seemingly everyone was using them within a few years. The pieces need to fall into place, but they do fall into place. And that's happening here: the technology is improving, the infrastructure is growing, and companies are committing to electrifying most or all of their lineups.

You're going to buy an EV. Oh, it might not happen for years, but it really is a question of when, not if. We're right at that phase where the tech is starting to hit its stride, and the landscape will likely be very different a few years from now, let alone a decade from now. You don't need to rush into it; just be ready for it.

 

[mindless1]

^ Yes, tipping point, though many keep trying to suggest that point is very soon, while I suspect it being at least 20 years away, unless a substantial % of the population abandons their desire for a vehicle larger than a tuna can.

 

[Commodus]

^ Yes, tipping point, though many keep trying to suggest that point is very soon, while I suspect it being at least 20 years away, unless a substantial % of the population abandons their desire for a vehicle larger than a tuna can.

Much, much sooner than 20 years. Hell, GM will be all-electric by 2035, and the majority of its lineup will be EVs before then.

I'm not pretending there aren't major challenges. But we shouldn't pretend things will move at a glacial pace, either.

 

[ponyo]

Imagine a world the situation was reversed and EVs were the norm and ICE cars were trying to break into this established EV market. Instead of gas stations, every station is instead EV charging station. Imagine what people would say. Imagine the horror of waking up every morning and not having full tank of gas like fully charged EV. Imagine having to take out time of your day and drive to remote gas stations just to fill up your car. While all other people with EV just charge at home every night at their convenience and wake up and leave with full charge every morning. Imagine the range anxiety you would have with ICE cars when you drive long distance or go on road trips. While there are EV charging stations on every block and electrical plug ins everywhere, there are only few gas stations spread out in cities and remote areas. So anytime you travel, you have to travel with trunk full of emergency 5 gallon spare gas containers. You don't know if the remote gas station you visit will have any gas or working pumps so you always carry multiple 5 gallon gas containers in your car trunk making your car extra smelly and heavy with gasoline.

Imagine having to deal with mechanical problems with your ICE cars and trying to find someone who's knowledgeable enough to fix it. That is if you can find parts because ICE cars are still new and supply chain and distribution networks are limited. Imagine driving ICE cars with such terrible lag in power delivery and response when you're used to instant torque and power to the wheel from EVs. Imagine having to use brake all the time to slowdown instead of using regen.

It's not easy to change the world. But Tesla got the ball rolling and showed the world what good EVs were capable of. The world is going to adapt and change whether you like it or not because it makes economical and environmental sense in the long run. We as species need to switch to renewables quickly as possible. You can still drive your ICE cars in the future just like there are people still using dumb phones. But don't expect the world to cater to your ICE vehicles and preferences.

 

[mindless1]

Much, much sooner than 20 years. Hell, GM will be all-electric by 2035, and the majority of its lineup will be EVs before then.

I'm not pretending there aren't major challenges. But we shouldn't pretend things will move at a glacial pace, either.

There is a difference between a "challege" to be better at rollerskating, and to develop a viable battery for the masses, and to decrease vehicle cost when it's been going the other direction, even for ICE vehicles. That's not just a hurdle but rather a mountain with the US middle class disappearing. Who will buy them?

It's going to require government intervention to make ICE vehicles so costly to build and repair that EV starts to look like a good investment. We have been going that direction, but not there yet, and the younger generation just doesn't connect with the idea of a vehicle being an investment, if they want one at all.

Don't believe for a second some claim that GM will be all electric by some date. They will continue to make ICE vehicles as long as they sell, or until they go out of business which could be more likely before 2035.

I can state that I'm going to make a fruitcake on Tuesday, but it's not really going to happen.

 

[ponyo]

economies of scale will soon make EV cheaper and ICE more expensive.

 

[Commodus]

There is a difference between a "challege" to be better at rollerskating, and to develop a viable battery for the masses, and to decrease vehicle cost when it's been going the other direction, even for ICE vehicles. That's not just a hurdle but rather a mountain with the US middle class disappearing. Who will buy them?

It's going to require government intervention to make ICE vehicles so costly to build and repair that EV starts to look like a good investment. We have been going that direction, but not there yet, and the younger generation just doesn't connect with the idea of a vehicle being an investment, if they want one at all.

Don't believe for a second some claim that GM will be all electric by some date. They will continue to make ICE vehicles as long as they sell, or until they go out of business which could be more likely before 2035.

I can state that I'm going to make a fruitcake on Tuesday, but it's not really going to happen.

Well, the shift back to a pro-environment, pro-middle class political leadership is a good start...

And who said you needed to hinder ICE vehicles to make EVs look attractive? How about improving EVs and offering incentives to buy then? The US could do wonders by eliminating oil industry subsidies and rolling that money into EVs and sustainable energy instead.

Yes, it's true that many younger people aren't interested in personal car ownership, but that just makes EVs all the more important. At a certain point people will regularly hail robotaxis; those make much more sense as EVs.

I'm not counting on GM definitively cutting off gas car sales by 2035, but that's the company's stated goal. It's going to influence what you can buy, and you should prepare yourself accordingly.

 

[mindless1]

Imagine a world the situation was reversed and EVs were the norm and ICE cars were trying to break into this established EV market. Instead of gas stations, every station is instead EV charging station.

Of course, but this requires imagination because it isn't the case. Imagination can solve some problems but not all problems.

Imagine what people would say. Imagine the horror of waking up every morning and not having full tank of gas like fully charged EV.

Why imagine this? The purpose of a vehicle is to travel so it is not as though you won't pass gas stations. It is decidedly less convenient, even impossible for the current electric grid to support everyone having EVs. This is yet another reason why it won't happen any year soon.

Imagine having to take out time of your day and drive to remote gas stations just to fill up your car. While all other people with EV just charge at home every night at their convenience and wake up and leave with full charge every morning.

This makes no sense at all. If you don't need to drive anywhere otherwise, you don't need more gas. If you do need to drive anywhere, for most of us it is practically impossible to drive far enough to be a significant depletion of fuel without passing MANY gas stations.

Imagine the range anxiety you would have with ICE cars when you drive long distance or go on road trips.

Yes, many decades from now, when gas and hydrogen are scarce, the fuel price will rise rapidly and refueling stations would become more scarce. Why bother imagining this today when it has no useful purpose to do so? There is no need to imagine anything, rather to switch over to an EV when it makes the most sense to do so. This is cold, hard, truth.

While there are EV charging stations on every block and electrical plug ins everywhere, there are only few gas stations spread out in cities and remote areas.

Makes FAR more sense to use the existing infrastructure of public roads as power delivery systems, not recreate the clutter of gas stations, except you probably think a charging station is the minimalistic thing we see today when instead, to replace gas stations they will have to be full service with tire inflation, a convenience store, etc.

So anytime you travel, you have to travel with trunk full of emergency 5 gallon spare gas containers. You don't know if the remote gas station you visit will have any gas or working pumps so you always carry multiple 5 gallon gas containers in your car trunk making your car extra smelly and heavy with gasoline.

You have it completely backwards on this. It is the virtue of ICE vehicles that you can so inexpensively have an additional range extension from an added gas can. Further, regulations have required gas cans to not leak for a very long time so there is no smell, and it is laughable to try to compare weight when an EV's batteries add so much more than that.

Imagine having to deal with mechanical problems with your ICE cars and trying to find someone who's knowledgeable enough to fix it.

Imagine the opposite instead, or rather, there is no imagination necessary to face the fact that it is far more difficult to find someone to repair an EV, at a low price, or to get relatively inexpensive parts, even if you can DIY.

That is if you can find parts because ICE cars are still new and supply chain and distribution networks are limited. Imagine driving ICE cars with such terrible lag in power delivery and response when you're used to instant torque and power to the wheel from EVs. Imagine having to use brake all the time to slowdown instead of using regen.

It is utterly backwards to contine to pretend the opposite of reality. You're essentially conceding that your entire argument is wrong.

Further, you should not be on public roads if you think you need more power or response. Public roads are not a race track, rather a dangerous place to drive recklessly. The average modern ICE vehicle performance already exceeds the driving ability of the average driver. Even if you want an EV future, it is wasteful and wrong to think the solution is powerful EVs instead of more conservative ones. Electricity is not really free, in cost of money or to the environment.

It's not easy to change the world. But Tesla got the ball rolling and showed the world what good EVs were capable of.

lol, Tesla's EVs are overpriced piles of junk. High defect rate that nobody would tolerate if it weren't an EV. Tesla cannot survive once they have some competition from the major US, European and Japanese brands, let alone the soon to come budget Chinese offerings. Mark my words.

The world is going to adapt and change whether you like it or not because it makes economical and environmental sense in the long run.

First, I do not dislike battery powered widgets at all. They have their place and benefits. It is not like or dislike, rather it is acceptance of the facts and obstacles that have delayed widespread EV adoption for over 100 years.

Second, it does not make economical sense yet either, unless someone puts on a lot of miles, and then their range anxiety becomes even worse. You can pretend to see the future, but that future may not be what you think it's going to be. Conservation is not about merely switching from one propulsion method to another.

Further the whole environmental sense aspect has been blown out of proportion and isn't seeing the forest for the trees. What makes environmental sense is more mass transportation, NOT more costly vehicles needing more exotic (or scarce) materials and still a power generation method. It is very inefficient to move around tons of metal for a single person to get from point A to B.

We as species need to switch to renewables quickly as possible.

EVs are not renewable. The materials aren't, the methods of generating power aren't.

Did you not realize that we are already switching to renewables as quickly as possible, because it takes real science, real materials, social change, and then infrastructure? An artificial push by pretending things that are the opposite of the truth, does not work with sane buyers, nor does it magically remove the engineering obstacles.

You can still drive your ICE cars in the future just like there are people still using dumb phones. But don't expect the world to cater to your ICE vehicles and preferences.

It is not a preference. It is reality, as it is also reality that some point in the future, decades from now, EVs will make the most sense for the masses.

It is quite the opposite when you refer to phones. People who can't appreciate the problems with EVs are decidedly, technically inept and have to use their "imagination" to make sense of it with the help of marketing agencies.

It's very easy to pretend or imagine that anything is true, if you bury your head in the sand to ignore the facts.

The fact is that EVs are the right long term solution. The fact is also that they are not the right short term solution for the majority and this is reflected by sales %. Any time you try to pretend you know someone else's needs better than they know their own, you'd going to be wrong a large % of the time.

The market is deciding as it should. As legitimate benefit from EVs rises, so will sales. Neither of our opinions changes this. It takes no imagination to see market stats and to realize that the collective mind of all of mankind that drives these stats, is wiser than any one person who refuses to be objective about the detriments to any (and every) transportation solution.

 

[WelshBloke]

Is there a proper small fun convertible EV?

 

[ondma]

The very very very very VERY last thing I want my tax money spent on, is making it easier for the rich to fuel their toys.

This is not "green energy", that is a lie. This has nothing at all to do with how that energy is generated. It is most likely that the owner of an EV, is less green with their total footprint than the person who kept up their ICE vehicle.

They are not made or fueled by magical pixie dust. It is senseless waste, when what we really need is, literally, to repopulate vegetation to achieve a planetary balance. Wishful thinking, marketing lies, and manipulating numbers does not achieve that.

Imagine a world the situation was reversed and EVs were the norm and ICE cars were trying to break into this established EV market. Instead of gas stations, every station is instead EV charging station. Imagine what people would say. Imagine the horror of waking up every morning and not having full tank of gas like fully charged EV. Imagine having to take out time of your day and drive to remote gas stations just to fill up your car. While all other people with EV just charge at home every night at their convenience and wake up and leave with full charge every morning. Imagine the range anxiety you would have with ICE cars when you drive long distance or go on road trips. While there are EV charging stations on every block and electrical plug ins everywhere, there are only few gas stations spread out in cities and remote areas. So anytime you travel, you have to travel with trunk full of emergency 5 gallon spare gas containers. You don't know if the remote gas station you visit will have any gas or working pumps so you always carry multiple 5 gallon gas containers in your car trunk making your car extra smelly and heavy with gasoline.

Imagine having to deal with mechanical problems with your ICE cars and trying to find someone who's knowledgeable enough to fix it. That is if you can find parts because ICE cars are still new and supply chain and distribution networks are limited. Imagine driving ICE cars with such terrible lag in power delivery and response when you're used to instant torque and power to the wheel from EVs. Imagine having to use brake all the time to slowdown instead of using regen.

It's not easy to change the world. But Tesla got the ball rolling and showed the world what good EVs were capable of. The world is going to adapt and change whether you like it or not because it makes economical and environmental sense in the long run. We as species need to switch to renewables quickly as possible. You can still drive your ICE cars in the future just like there are people still using dumb phones. But don't expect the world to cater to your ICE vehicles and preferences.

Not really a valid analogy. No matter how many charging stations one has, it is still much quicker to pump a tank of gas than to charge a battery.
I hate to agree with mindless, but I think the change over will be slow as well. He is not correct though that EVs are not more eco friendly than ICE vehicles. There are many ways to produce electricity that do produce CO2 like ICE vehicles do (i.e. solar, hydroelectric, nuclear, maybe eventually hydrogen). That said, I believe Ford is going electric 2030 and GM 2035, and considering that cars can easily last 10+ years, it could well be close to the middle of the century before electric cars are in the majority.

 

[sandorski]

New ICE powered vehicles will no longer be available in 20 years anywhere. EVs are part of the future and the roads will not be littered with vehicles because someone forgot to plugin.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Is there a proper small fun convertible EV?

You mean like this one?

Tofino - ElectraMeccanica

The Tofino. The all electric two-seat roadster.We took the best principles of classic sports cars and united them with aerospace technology and electric power. Reserve your Tofino today for $1000 CAD.

electrameccanica.com

 

[FelixDeCat]

New ICE powered vehicles will no longer be available in 20 years anywhere. EVs are part of the future and the roads will not be littered with vehicles because someone forgot to plugin.

Pshaw. Unless state governments meddle in the free-markets and try to stupidly outlaw ICE vehicles, they should be available for purchase for pretty much the rest of our lifetimes.

 

[FelixDeCat]

economies of scale will soon make EV cheaper and ICE more expensive.

What about hybrids? I've stated before that would be only (semi) EV I would be interested in. This way I have a trusty ICE engine to fall back on.

 

[sandorski]

Pshaw. Unless state governments meddle in the free-markets and try to stupidly outlaw ICE vehicles, they should be available for purchase for pretty much the rest of our lifetimes.

Bad news for you then, Governments are gonna meddle significantly.