Our supposed EV future....(updated)

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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,110
17,450
126
Coding does not require making a bunch of phone calls all over, researching stuff, booking stuff, having to plan at trip, having to figure out where I have to go in a city I have no clue about etc. You'd also need to rent a car from the airport then figure out how to bring it back etc. I can just code from a computer without having to worry about stuff like that.

or you can just have the dealer pick you up, booking flights is dead easy.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,986
3,749
136
Used Chevy bolts are cheap and can be found for $15k or less without looking hard. They aren't cool but bang for the buck they are one of the best EV deals around, 240 miles btw. Even brand new they are cheap and have great lease deals, 260 miles on new ones. The rest of the cheap EVs are low range cars.
I've read that if you look around, you can find brand-new 2020 Bolts for around $24k. However, people say the 1st gen Bolt has incredibly uncomfortable seats, which sounds like a deal breaker to me. I'd also wait for the GREEN Act to be passed by Congress before buying a Tesla or GM BEV.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,024
2,757
136
I've read that if you look around, you can find brand-new 2020 Bolts for around $24k. However, people say the 1st gen Bolt has incredibly uncomfortable seats, which sounds like a deal breaker to me. I'd also wait for the GREEN Act to be passed by Congress before buying a Tesla or GM BEV.
Uncomfortable seats are the first step to posture issues and the costs of remedying that.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,981
6,559
136
Uncomfortable seats are the first step to posture issues and the costs of remedying that.

Uncomfortable seats are partially the interaction between person and seat. It can be different for each person, so you should try seats for yourself rather than just take another persons word on seat comfort.

Plus you can mod seats. I would get get shooting leg and but pain on long car trips in almost any car (Sciatica symptoms I only get in this circumstance). I added a gel honeycomb seat cushion that resolved it almost completely.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,024
2,757
136
Uncomfortable seats are partially the interaction between person and seat. It can be different for each person, so you should try seats for yourself rather than just take another persons word on seat comfort.

Plus you can mod seats. I would get get shooting leg and but pain on long car trips in almost any car (Sciatica symptoms I only get in this circumstance). I added a gel honeycomb seat cushion that resolved it almost completely.
I already know.

I actually hate the seats on the ICE Toyota Matrix my mom has.

So I have had to "try for myself" because I had no choice.

I won't need a new car for a while either.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,024
2,757
136
Bolt has old Toyota Matrix seats?
I see someone has a need to preach and glorify his own intelligence; I can tell since I kept my post vanilla and let you take the floor. "I already know" refers to the need of having to evaluate the seats in person for full confirmation, not that a Toyota's Matrix seats are in the Bolt. Given my experience already, I'll know how to evaluate seats when I get there, if ever.

Not to mention a profound batch of arrogance that could lead to such a stupid inference.

Why don't you take the quasi-religious proselyting to another place.

Only a child would take such a general statement about any car (seat quality) and think it's an attack on EVs.

Here's deal, purchaser virgin. I've bought shit goods at least a couple times and hence if I cannot be present, sometimes qualitative negative reviews are enlightening. Like Bauer impact wrenches being tough on sockets, brake line tools that can't handle OEM steel etc.

Unlike these goods, cars don't have a return policy, so my butt has to be in the vehicle for an hour or more to evaluate the seats. Because things can feel fine for 15, 30, even 45 minutes.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,981
6,559
136
I see someone has a need to preach and glorify his own intelligence; I can tell since I kept my post vanilla and let you take the floor. "I already know" refers to the need of having to evaluate the seats in person for full confirmation, not that a Toyota's Matrix seats are in the Bolt. Given my experience already, I'll know how to evaluate seats when I get there, if ever.

Not to mention a profound batch of arrogance that could lead to such a stupid inference.

Why don't you take the quasi-religious proselyting to another place.

Only a child would take such a general statement about any car (seat quality) and think it's an attack on EVs.

Here's deal, purchaser virgin. I've bought shit goods at least a couple times and hence if I cannot be present, sometimes qualitative negative reviews are enlightening. Like Bauer impact wrenches being tough on sockets, brake line tools that can't handle OEM steel etc.

Unlike these goods, cars don't have a return policy, so my butt has to be in the vehicle for an hour or more to evaluate the seats. Because things can feel fine for 15, 30, even 45 minutes.

Wow, too much pee in your cornflakes??

The language of your post was imprecise and implied that you already know Bolt seat are uncomfortable by driving a Matrix.

I was just asking if the Bolt therefore used the same seats as matrix.

Then you go ballistic...
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,595
4,498
75
I've been investigating whether an EV could work for me.

Problem #1: This house has no 240V outlets. At all. So it would take some major rewiring to charge more than ~50 miles a night from home. That would be fine right now, but once upon a time I commuted 75 miles a day each way! So I'd have to fast charge someplace if I started doing that again.

Problem #2: If I got a Tesla, I'd likely want to use the supercharger nearest me at some point. That supercharger just happens to be in a parking garage you have to pay to get into!

Problem #3: One of these days I'd like to vacation at some national parks again. I live in Colorado. One route to the Grand Canyon, through Four Corners, has over 200 miles with no fast chargers. Apparently the Native American reservations lack fast charging. (There's another slightly longer route around them with more chargers.) Then if I want to visit Yellowstone, if I don't have a Tesla, there appear to be all of two non-Tesla fast chargers in the entire state of Wyoming! Even with a Tesla it's dicey.

But I think the biggest problem is that batteries are half the cost of an EV. Apparently if you take an EV, take out the batteries, and put in an ICE charging system, you can nearly halve the cost of a car! Nissan's doing it too.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,943
13,463
126
www.anyf.ca
No 240v at all? How does your clothes dryer and oven work? Or A/C? Either way assuming your panel is a normal split phase service you should be able to get 240v out of it. If everything is finished and drywalled including the basement it makes it a bit harder though. I'm refinishing my garage and plan to bring in 100 amps from the main panel so the garage can have it's own panel, and I'll probably put a 40a 240v split phase circuit in a junction box on the side of the house for in case I ever do get an EV at least the power is there. 30a without neutral is all you need I think but may as well run 40 split phase to be safe.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,110
17,450
126
I've been investigating whether an EV could work for me.

Problem #1: This house has no 240V outlets. At all. So it would take some major rewiring to charge more than ~50 miles a night from home. That would be fine right now, but once upon a time I commuted 75 miles a day each way! So I'd have to fast charge someplace if I started doing that again.

Problem #2: If I got a Tesla, I'd likely want to use the supercharger nearest me at some point. That supercharger just happens to be in a parking garage you have to pay to get into!

Problem #3: One of these days I'd like to vacation at some national parks again. I live in Colorado. One route to the Grand Canyon, through Four Corners, has over 200 miles with no fast chargers. Apparently the Native American reservations lack fast charging. (There's another slightly longer route around them with more chargers.) Then if I want to visit Yellowstone, if I don't have a Tesla, there appear to be all of two non-Tesla fast chargers in the entire state of Wyoming! Even with a Tesla it's dicey.

But I think the biggest problem is that batteries are half the cost of an EV. Apparently if you take an EV, take out the batteries, and put in an ICE charging system, you can nearly halve the cost of a car! Nissan's doing it too.


You may have to upgrade your service to 200A then wire in the 240VAC charger in your garage.

May as well add another one to where your 44U server rack will go xd
 
Reactions: Ken g6

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,981
6,559
136
Problem #1: This house has no 240V outlets. At all. So it would take some major rewiring to charge more than ~50 miles a night from home. That would be fine right now, but once upon a time I commuted 75 miles a day each way! So I'd have to fast charge someplace if I started doing that again.

You mean no spare, empty 240V outlets? Do you have electric clothes dryer?

If you have an Electric clothes dryer, you can share that circuit for EV charging even if that panel is full. You just can't charge and dry clothes at the same time. There are even smart splitters to resolve that so it won't let you do both even if you try it:
 
Last edited:

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,595
4,498
75
You mean no spare, empty 240V outlets? Do you have electric clothes dryer?

If you have an Electric clothes dryer, you can share that circuit for EV charging even if that panel is full. You just can't charge and dry clothes at the same time. There are even smart splitters to resolve that so it won't let you do both even if you try it:
I mean zero, zilch, nada. Not even any 240V circuits coming from the breaker box.

Edit: lots of gas appliances.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,671
12,096
136
Problem #3: One of these days I'd like to vacation at some national parks again. I live in Colorado. One route to the Grand Canyon, through Four Corners, has over 200 miles with no fast chargers. Apparently the Native American reservations lack fast charging. (There's another slightly longer route around them with more chargers.) Then if I want to visit Yellowstone, if I don't have a Tesla, there appear to be all of two non-Tesla fast chargers in the entire state of Wyoming! Even with a Tesla it's dicey.
I feel like this is an easy problem to avoid: rent an ICE vehicle for those trips. It's not like you're making these trips weekly.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,957
581
136
I mean zero, zilch, nada. Not even any 240V circuits coming from the breaker box.

Edit: lots of gas appliances.
Most 240 is just a double pole breaker. I just added a 60A double pole breaker like this. I did mine myself, not very hard.

 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,957
581
136
Problem #3: One of these days I'd like to vacation at some national parks again. I live in Colorado. One route to the Grand Canyon, through Four Corners, has over 200 miles with no fast chargers. Apparently the Native American reservations lack fast charging. (There's another slightly longer route around them with more chargers.) Then if I want to visit Yellowstone, if I don't have a Tesla, there appear to be all of two non-Tesla fast chargers in the entire state of Wyoming! Even with a Tesla it's dicey.

Oh also I made a trip from dallas to Rocky mountain National Park. Was no problem.
 

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,249
1,655
136
I feel like this is an easy problem to avoid: rent an ICE vehicle for those trips. It's not like you're making these trips weekly.
That is one solution, but it somehow seems wrong to have to rent a vehicle because the car you paid 50k+ for (most likely), wont do the job.
 
Reactions: heymrdj

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,981
6,559
136
That is one solution, but it somehow seems wrong to have to rent a vehicle because the car you paid 50k+ for (most likely), wont do the job.

If it's weekly, I agree.

But if it's a once or twice/year vacation thing, then renting is a totally reasonable option. I have been to various western National parks many times, but it's days of driving for us, so all but one time, we flew and rented cars on arrival. Which is what most people do for long distance vacations.

The one time we drove, we rented a minivan because we had small commuter cars (not EVs), and wanted something bigger for a trip with lots of camping gear.

If it's perfectly reasonable to rent cars for vaction before anyone had an EV, why wouldn't it be, after you get an EV?
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,981
6,559
136
I mean zero, zilch, nada. Not even any 240V circuits coming from the breaker box.

Edit: lots of gas appliances.

Ok then, an EV may not fit your needs. Check back in 5 years to see how the infrastructure is doing then.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,690
2,605
126
That is one solution, but it somehow seems wrong to have to rent a vehicle because the car you paid 50k+ for (most likely), wont do the job.

I mention this earlier. There are easy solutions to everything and reliable ICE vehicles are always available for long trips. In fact, I used to rent a car myself to avoid putting high miles on my personal vehicles.

I would also rent luxury or new vehicles for fun or to test drive.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,595
4,498
75
Ok then, an EV may not fit your needs. Check back in 5 years to see how the infrastructure is doing then.
I just figured out a very important reason why an EV doesn't fit my needs. I live in a town in the mountains. If the main route out of here is blocked, I'd have to take one of two (or three) long routes through the mountains, none of which has much in the way of chargers. The way wildfires have been going here in Colorado, that could easily happen.

I still plan to look at PHEVs, though.
 

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,249
1,655
136
If it's weekly, I agree.

But if it's a once or twice/year vacation thing, then renting is a totally reasonable option. I have been to various western National parks many times, but it's days of driving for us, so all but one time, we flew and rented cars on arrival. Which is what most people do for long distance vacations.

The one time we drove, we rented a minivan because we had small commuter cars (not EVs), and wanted something bigger for a trip with lots of camping gear.

If it's perfectly reasonable to rent cars for vaction before anyone had an EV, why wouldn't it be, after you get an EV?
Because you can get a "normal" car for much less than the cost of most EVs. Makes the extra cost of renting less onerous.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,981
6,559
136
Because you can get a "normal" car for much less than the cost of most EVs. Makes the extra cost of renting less onerous.



If I was going to rent a car for a vacation, regardless of what I own, it's heavy rationalizing to only complain about if you own an EV.

That makes about as much sense as complaining about the high cost of air travel, only if you own an EV. Because the extra cost of Air travel is more onerous because the EV costs more than a "normal" car.
 
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