What's missing from a lot of these discussions is how we can also move towards a future that doesn't require 1:1 ICE:EV replacement and that the. We need to remember that the currently built world didn't appear overnight, and it won't change overnight. EV plans should include other items like transit-oriented development, bicycle infrastructure, and even electric bike subsidies; these things could spur many households to move from 2 cars to 0-1.New ICE powered vehicles will no longer be available in 20 years anywhere. EVs are part of the future and the roads will not be littered with vehicles because someone forgot to plugin.
I've been driving for over 30 years and I've been through a lot from dead car batteries, pushing cars that ran out of gas, calling AAA, etc.
I have been driving for over 40 years. I have never run a car out of gas, I have never had a dead battery strand me anyplace, and I only had to call a tow truck once because of a part failure.
There will always be inattentive drivers that have problems and there will always be the occasional problems that a driver couldn't see coming. We learn, we adapt…at least the smart ones will. It was that way with fossil fuel powered vehicles, it will be that way with electric vehicles, and it will be that way with whatever replaces EVs.
-KeithP
(I posted this in another thread but it might also be good here)
I've been wondering about this electrified car future we are supposed to heading for. I've been driving for over 30 years and I've been through a lot from dead car batteries, pushing cars that ran out of gas, calling AAA, etc.
Since people will do things like forget to plug in their car overnight that has a low charge and they barely make it to work on time but the car is dead or they are out somewhere and run out of juice short of charging station, what do they do?
Once everyone is expected to own an EV are you going to see stranded cars everywhere?
And what about mobile charging? Normally when you go to a gas station, it only takes about 5 minutes to fill up completely and be good for two weeks and 300+ miles. If there is an extended blackout are you just f-d?
But can you imagine sitting at the gas station for 20-40 minutes?!! I cant.
The only thing I see happening is EV manufactures develop a system that will allow you to drop in a small replaceable battery that you buy at a gas station that gives you just enough charge to get home and charge for the night. This should reduce the time to get back on the road back to a 5 min trip.
Also, if you a stranded by the road then AAA can bring you this "drop in" battery and you can be on your way again. Heck, you might even carry a spare drop in battery for emergencies.
Just my thoughts.
2. Any trip the gas station is going out of your way, even if filling up at Costco at the end of a shopping trip. I pretty much just plug in over night and ready to go in the morning. On a road trip, after driving for 3 hours or so, stopping for 20 minutes to stretch your legs, use the bathroom and get a bite to already takes time. With Tesla at least, the stalls are in convenient locations that provide everything one would need for a driving break. I have taken two 1,000 mile round trips and the time with both an ICE car and Tesla was the same length.
It is a pain in the ass than can easily be avoided. In addition, gas stations are much more abundant than charging stations, so you can stop almost anywhere you wish.This is where I get into arguments with people. I am told that charging for 20 or 30 minutes every 3-4 hours is just too monumental of a hardship to bear.
Given how the federal government doles out money, the hottest "rising cities" would get back that money first.Pull the tens of billions of dollars in subsidies that the oil & gas industry gets and divert that to EV infrastructure and it might not turn out the way you think.
I know it’s more of a Tesla thing than ev vs ICE but I found that driving with auto pilot makes the trip much easier and the longer stops more welcome. Being more relaxed helps not making you wish it would get over sooner.It is a pain in the ass than can easily be avoided. In addition, gas stations are much more abundant than charging stations, so you can stop almost anywhere you wish.
For instance, driving to see my daughter in Ohio is about a 12 hour trip, so adding 30 min every 3 hours adds 2 hours to an already very long trip. I know you have to stop to rest if driving solo, but if you have several (or even 2) drivers, you can make a very quick fuel stop to switch drivers, and pack sandwiches to eat on the road.
Eventually, people with EV trucks will make sure to carry THIS behemoth around "in case of emergency".(I posted this in another thread but it might also be good here)
I've been wondering about this electrified car future we are supposed to heading for. I've been driving for over 30 years and I've been through a lot from dead car batteries, pushing cars that ran out of gas, calling AAA, etc.
Since people will do things like forget to plug in their car overnight that has a low charge and they barely make it to work on time but the car is dead or they are out somewhere and run out of juice short of charging station, what do they do?
Once everyone is expected to own an EV are you going to see stranded cars everywhere?
And what about mobile charging? Normally when you go to a gas station, it only takes about 5 minutes to fill up completely and be good for two weeks and 300+ miles. If there is an extended blackout are you just f-d?
But can you imagine sitting at the gas station for 20-40 minutes?!! I cant.
The only thing I see happening is EV manufactures develop a system that will allow you to drop in a small replaceable battery that you buy at a gas station that gives you just enough charge to get home and charge for the night. This should reduce the time to get back on the road back to a 5 min trip.
Also, if you a stranded by the road then AAA can bring you this "drop in" battery and you can be on your way again. Heck, you might even carry a spare drop in battery for emergencies.
Just my thoughts.
Bans won't come but the rising fuel standards will decrease the reliability and longevity of ICEs. Cars are already being "plasticized". I think the manufacturers are taking it in stride because the obsolescence=more revenue.Pshaw. Unless state governments meddle in the free-markets and try to stupidly outlaw ICE vehicles, they should be available for purchase for pretty much the rest of our lifetimes.
One vehicle for a family used to work decades ago. The economy has shifted since then.What's missing from a lot of these discussions is how we can also move towards a future that doesn't require 1:1 ICE:EV replacement and that the. We need to remember that the currently built world didn't appear overnight, and it won't change overnight. EV plans should include other items like transit-oriented development, bicycle infrastructure, and even electric bike subsidies; these things could spur many households to move from 2 cars to 0-1.
This is myopic - it assumes that our currently built world is immutable. It didn't appear overnight, and we can certainly take steps to reduce our dependence on personal automobiles. Sure, it's not going to be for everyone, but we can't just keep going down this insane rabbit hole of SFH sprawl where everyone just drives everywhere.One vehicle for a family used to work decades ago. The economy has shifted since then.
Bikes are for cities only and not suitable for suburbia.
Having lived with a Tesla for a year now, I will share of my thoughts based on my experience.
1. It's very hard to run out of battery unless you purposely try to get yourself stranded. There are so many ways to see how much charge you have, how far you can go and how much power you are using. There is also potential that cars can charge each other if that is enabled. Very easy for a truck rolling around with a few PowerWalls or equivalent to help a stranded motorist.
2. Any trip the gas station is going out of your way, even if filling up at Costco at the end of a shopping trip. I pretty much just plug in over night and ready to go in the morning. On a road trip, after driving for 3 hours or so, stopping for 20 minutes to stretch your legs, use the bathroom and get a bite to already takes time. With Tesla at least, the stalls are in convenient locations that provide everything one would need for a driving break. I have taken two 1,000 mile round trips and the time with both an ICE car and Tesla was the same length.
3. The bigger overall challenge is scaling. Tesla and most others can't go much faster on producing batteries and building charging locations. Right now, most states only have a hundred or so Super Charging stalls and are mostly configured for cars. Tesla will need to make some drastic changes if they expect Cybertrucks to be charging at them and 2-3x the number of users.
It is a pain in the ass than can easily be avoided. In addition, gas stations are much more abundant than charging stations, so you can stop almost anywhere you wish.
For instance, driving to see my daughter in Ohio is about a 12 hour trip, so adding 30 min every 3 hours adds 2 hours to an already very long trip. I know you have to stop to rest if driving solo, but if you have several (or even 2) drivers, you can make a very quick fuel stop to switch drivers, and pack sandwiches to eat on the road.
2. Any trip the gas station is going out of your way, even if filling up at Costco at the end of a shopping trip. I pretty much just plug in over night and ready to go in the morning. On a road trip, after driving for 3 hours or so, stopping for 20 minutes to stretch your legs, use the bathroom and get a bite to already takes time. With Tesla at least, the stalls are in convenient locations that provide everything one would need for a driving break. I have taken two 1,000 mile round trips and the time with both an ICE car and Tesla was the same length.
The amenities around a Supercharger are just entirely dependent upon luck (or a good amount of research). The best ones are near somewhere like Walmart or at the side of a gas station. When I went from AL to PA, the one in Chattanooga was literally located in the airport's long-term parking, which I had to pull a temporary, 15-minute pass just to use it. There was one in Virginia that was located beside a hotel where the only nearby amenities were some standard restaurants that wouldn't have late-night hours. (Also, it's a bit awkward using a hotel's bathroom when you're not a patron.) Then there was also the awkward one somewhere in PA (I think I was near Carlise?) that was literally behind a grocery store in a strip mall. I can't imagine telling a timid person to charge there in the middle of the night! There was also the one (also in PA) where it barely worked during the middle of the day; it worked great at 8 AM and 8 PM, but was about 20% of the aforementioned performance at 12 PM.
Also, this speaks nothing of range anxiety in a Tesla. The worst part is that Tesla's in-car navigation software is so lackluster, that you should just do most of the work yourself. The problem is that it has absolutely no settings for desired state of charge when arriving at a Supercharger. Typically, most of my destinations would have me arriving with 5-10% charge, and that's their estimate. In reality, the charge was typically worse because I would transition to an area with more drastic elevation changes (i.e. the steeper hills around Virginia). Engineering Explained did a video recently where he took the same trip that he did awhile back in his Model 3 Performance; however, he made a few changes. The main change is that he adjusted his Supercharger stops to inject smaller charging stops. (It's also cheaper when charging below 80%.) The big thing is that this trip was in winter vs. the previous one being in the summer, and even though he used a modest amount more power (due to the winter weather), he still took close to the same time even with the smaller charge stops.
Honestly, Tesla frustrates me a lot. They keep making these awkward decisions and ignoring what should be obvious areas in need of improvement. What frustrates me more is that if you want an EV, you'd probably be an idiot to get anything other than a Tesla. Ford brings out their Mustang EV, and it takes a Model S-sized battery to get Model 3-style range, and the worst part is that Ford isn't alone in that. The only company that I've seen get numbers close to Tesla is Lucid, and their cars are luxury models meant to compete with the Model S and above.
Then there is the ability to build enough of them to support the small amount of cars on the road. Then take into consideration something like the Cybertruck. Huge vehicles that may not be able to back in due to towing or needing to access the bed. Of all the charging stations I've been to, not a single one would be able to fit trucks easily. They are barely wide enough for an S to open it's door and allow a person to slip out. Those problems don't magically get better and I feel Tesla is already behind.
It looks like Tesla is starting to plan for Cybertuck supercharging, although not pull though spaces yet (at least in this example). You're going to need a decent chunk or real estate for that so I'd expect it more along highways where there is space eventually.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-supercharger-spaces-v3/
That's good news that they are starting. I just wonder how they can go from one such spot which has a lot of bureaucracy to dozens per state across the US. Don't get me wrong, I'm very invested in Tesla with owning stock, a Y and a Cybertruck on pre-order but I'm also trying to be realistic in what's possible.
These days, "sprawl" always comes with some degree of urban planning that some essential businesses like grocery stores are reachable without having to exit the community boundaries, even if a car is needed. It's very easy to develop and plan over an old shopping mall or farmland that got sold. I would question the feasibility of built a giant high-end brand new city of elite high rises and all the amenities of a New York on parcels bordering forest and farmland and located far away from the moneyholders.This is myopic - it assumes that our currently built world is immutable. It didn't appear overnight, and we can certainly take steps to reduce our dependence on personal automobiles. Sure, it's not going to be for everyone, but we can't just keep going down this insane rabbit hole of SFH sprawl where everyone just drives everywhere.
Yeah. Like that but actually for sale!You mean like this one?
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I was curious since you guys are having this conversation and looked where I live and travel for charging stations. What's the difference between a Charge Point Charging Station, Tesla Destination Charger and the Tesla Supercharger in terms of speed? There are no Tesla Superchargers for the entire upper east side of my state. On the upper west side there are 3 and quite a few of the other chargers.