You have to forgive Felix. He is basing his opinion on Texas.
Still trying to beat that tired old drum, I see.
1. Infrastructure is improving, and range improvements are making it possible to avoid mid-trip recharges. Don't confuse the way things are now with the way they will be.
2. You managed to undermine your own argument in one sentence. Recycling for batteries is improving, and there are already good uses for them. For example, a while back there was a project using old laptop batteries to power lights in places where electricity is unreliable or impractical.
3. Like K1052 said, the upshot of EVs is that they need far fewer repairs in the first place. The biggest cost is replacing the battery if you wear it down enough. Small garages and shadetree mechanics exist because gas engines are unreliable, cantankerous devices; let's not keep a problem around because we're worried about its solution going away.
4. Battery designs are becoming safer, and emergency crews are adapting. Again, let's not mistake the way things are now for the way they will be. And it's not as if gas cars are ironclad safety boxes, are they? Without detailed accident data, I wouldn't presume EVs are more dangerous in accidents than their gas counterparts.
First, I don't live in USA, and second, California already said the ban is coming in 2035.
For example a friend of mine lives in a building which is <10yrs old. The estimate he was given for getting a charger to his underground garage spot was $10K (Canadian $), and the existing capacity can only accomodate 10-15% of the residents before much more extensive (and expensive) work would be needed. This is a condo-style building where units are individually owned (quite common in Canada). Who's gonna pay for that? Would you be happy if someone handed you a 20-40-60K bill one year? What if some residents don't want to participate?
In most urban centres housing market is already overheated with low vacancy and a tendency to go worse, I doubt apartment buildings will be scrambling for tenants any time soon. Where would they go, is there some secret plan for extra housing? And all these aditional costs won't make housing more affordable.
Strange how those who are arguing that we cant assume infrastructure will stay the same, in the next breath argue that the needed infrastructure will magically appear.
Bottom line, is no one really knows what will happen. Considering that 2030 is only 9 years away, personally, I am skeptical, but somewhat hopeful, that the needed infrastructure will be in place. Again, simply my opinion, but I think something like 2050 is a more realistic estimate for widespread EV implementation. Even that depends on the political climate, which is favorable to green energy now, but could easily be reversed in 4 years.
And for those citing Norway as an example, that is great for them. However, the US is a much bigger country, has a very different political climate, and already has a strained electrical grid in many areas.
I would have to have 6 to 8, 80 - 100+ year old hardwood trees cut down to make solar on the roof practical. You want electricity or oxygen? They also don't create a heat island as solar cells do, and they provide shade to reduce cooling load.Solar panels and roofs will become the norm in the future. Just like EV vehicles. There will come a day when the idea of having dumb roof that does nothing will seem like dumb idea. People will automatically buy and sell energy they generate from their solar roofs using programs like Autobidder. Every home in essence will become their own utility. California is already requiring all new single home constructions to have solar panels. It will happen. Energy is multi trillion dollar market that will be disrupted. You can choose to put your head in the sand and ignore what's coming or plan for it. Prices will come down and yes, even the guy who's working part time for $12 an hour at Walmart will be able to afford it. Because it will make economic sense.
Strange how those who are arguing that we cant assume infrastructure will stay the same, in the next breath argue that the needed infrastructure will magically appear.
Bottom line, is no one really knows what will happen. Considering that 2030 is only 9 years away, personally, I am skeptical,
And for those citing Norway as an example, that is great for them. However, the US is a much bigger country, has a very different political climate, and already has a strained electrical grid in many areas.
On Sept. 23, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced that after 2035, sales of gas-powered vehicles would be banned in California, a state where more than 50% of greenhouse emissions are generated by transportation. This ban includes gas-electric hybrid vehicles and, more generally, any vehicle with tailpipe emissions.What does 2030 have to do with EV's in the USA? There is no 2030 deadline in the USA.
Each country is different. Countries with better infrastructure plans and progress will end ICE sales sooner, but the bulk of the USA will like be lagging the rest of the western world.
Norway is just is one of the first movers that will transition sooner, rather than later, and we can watch it happen and learn from it. It is also a good counter to the OP FUD ("going to see stranded cars everywhere?") that started this thread. More than half the new car sales in Norway are already EVs and there aren't stranded cars everywhere.
I would have to have 6 to 8, 80 - 100+ year old hardwood trees cut down to make solar on the roof practical. You want electricity or oxygen? They also don't create a heat island as solar cells do, and they provide shade to reduce cooling load.
Actually local ordinances do not permit me to take down a tree over 6" in diameter unless it is a threat to fall, or dead. It is related to the fact I live on a steep slope, and trees stabilize the land. If it is a threat, that must be confirmed by a certified arborist, else I would be fined, and required to plant new trees.
Periodic greasing of appropriated suspension components and probably gear box oil changes (very infrequent). In any case, these are better uses of petroleum then burning them in ICE engines.LOL EVs are essentially no maintenance as long as you keep them in tires, brakes, and windshield fluid.
On Sept. 23, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced that after 2035, sales of gas-powered vehicles would be banned in California, a state where more than 50% of greenhouse emissions are generated by transportation. This ban includes gas-electric hybrid vehicles and, more generally, any vehicle with tailpipe emissions.
i dunno about 2030 but in california looks like 2035.
Periodic greasing of appropriated suspension components and probably gear box oil changes (very infrequent). In any case, these are better uses of petroleum then burning them in ICE engines.
I just need the damn things to come down in price. Oh, and NH electric rates (energy+distribution) are sadly quite high. My house is poorly located for roof solar as well :-(
More specifically the ban covers new cars. Used gas vehicles will continue to be ok. I know some people think they might try to evade such a restriction by going out of state but I about CA will let you register when the time comes.
i know people who keep their cars register in other states to save $$$ so im sure it would work.. as far as no good spot, why not just build another structure like a carport or patio with solar panels instead of a roof.Community solar is probably the answer for people that don't don't have a good spot on property.
So, commit registration and insurance fraud? Honestly, wouldn't mind seeing states and insurance companies would crack down on that.i know people who keep their cars register in other states to save $$$ so im sure it would work.. as far as no good spot, why not just build another structure like a carport or patio with solar panels instead of a roof.
i dunno about 2030 but in california looks like 2035.
It's a counter-example to your "The USA likely won't ban the ICE cars till 2040 or later".If you don't live in the USA, then why jump to another US example in the next breath? Presumably you don't live in California, so why the concern for them? BTW an executive order for 15 years in the future carries little weight, it is more of signal to get the ball rolling.
Once again, your answer is a vague "infrastructure will be improved". It's not going to be improved by unicorns - in the above example, who will pay the fairly substantial bill? Federal government? State/province? Municipality? Owners? If owners, would there be subsidies? And what's the timeline? Can government or HOA force owners?So your concern is that Canada might ban new combustion engine cars 15-20 years from now, and that this apartment situation will be exactly like it is today?
That isn't a very convincing argument. Also note that even if that came to pass, ICE cars on the roads won't disappear.
Over the next 15-20 years apartment buildings will face ever greater pressure to supply EV charging, and public infrastructure will be growing as well.
2050 is too pessimistic. Widespread EV adoption I see in the 2030s. Maybe the 2020s, but probably not until later in the decade.
I figure there will be a tipping point where the cars are inexpensive enough, and the infrastructure broad enough, that EV demand snowballs. Think of what happened with smartphones —0
On Sept. 23, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced that after 2035, sales of gas-powered vehicles would be banned in California, a state where more than 50% of greenhouse emissions are generated by transportation. This ban includes gas-electric hybrid vehicles and, more generally, any vehicle with tailpipe emissions.
i dunno about 2030 but in california looks like 2035.
personally i dont care, i have no idea how much pollution a electric vehicle really makes since you have to ship a battery around the world and dispose of the battery later etc. But my real issue is range and how many people i can fit in a electric suv give me a 8 seats with 700 miles range and ill bite (well for less than 75k since im a cheap skate.This is the type of extremism that should be avoided. You want to encourage adoption, not force it down people's throats and leave them with no choice. Good thing the Gavster is about to be recalled anyway.
Once again, your answer is a vague "infrastructure will be improved". It's not going to be improved by unicorns - in the above example, who will pay the fairly substantial bill? Federal government? State/province? Municipality? Owners? If owners, would there be subsidies? And what's the timeline? Can government or HOA force owners?
"No new ICE by 20XX" is a lot more definite statement than "someone will pay for and improve infrastructure at some point".
City of Burnaby
City of Coquitlam
- All parking spaces for dwelling units shall include an energized outlet capable of providing Level 2 charging or higher
City of Nelson
- All new constructions must have one energized outlet capable of L2 charging for every dwelling unit
City of North Vancouver
- One stall per dwelling unit is required to be EV ready in new single family and multi-unit residential.
The zoning bylaw has been amended to include 100% EV ready parking in multi-unit residential buildings:
City of Vancouver
- This applies to development or building permit applications accepted for review on or after June 1, 2019.
- All parking spaces in new residential buildings must have a labelled, energized outlet capable of providing Level 2 charging for an electric vehicle.
Building Code Bylaw 10908 requiring EV charging in new builds (commercial and residential), revised bylaw Electric Vehicle Charging s 10.2.3.
- This bylaw was updated on March 14, 2018 to increase the percentage of EV-ready stalls in multi-unit residential buildings from 20% to 100%
Yes, but everyone wanted cell phones. Thats not the case for electrics at the moment.
This is actually a good statement. I've started logging home energy usage. My electric water heater is on track to use as much electricity as my brothers bolt. 200kwh/mo That will get the Bolt around 800-1000mi/mo which is pretty close to the national average.What did they do when air conditioning was invented? An EV is not going to use any more power than an A/C unit. Either way as long as people pay their bill it's up to the company to provide the services being paid for. It's that simple. If they need to upgrade substations or power plants well they'll just have to do it.
You do realize that underground conduit needs to be run to giant squares of a parking lot, all on private property? Since these charging points are on private property, making the stations exclusive to the residents also has to be considered. The wiring and construction methods must also be done to prevent the shocks, fires, and vandalism; meaning "da ghetto" is not exactly going to be served anytime soon.People always say "there's no infrastructure" but imagine the amount of infrastructure that had to be setup when ICE cars got invented. There was no gas stations or means to distribute oil. But yet it happened.
For EVs the infrastructure already exists. It's called power plants and power lines. That particular line is 500kv and goes to a 349MW power plant. Considering what it was doing to my hair pretty sure you can charge an EV if you just park under it.
As for charging stations, at the end of the day it's just a fancy plug, they are not that special. Anyone can install them as long as you have a means of running power from your electrical panel.
You do realize that underground conduit needs to be run to giant squares of a parking lot, all on private property? Since these charging points are on private property, making the stations exclusive to the residents also has to be considered. The wiring and construction methods must also be done to prevent the shocks, fires, and vandalism; meaning "da ghetto" is not exactly going to be served anytime soon.
That's where the infrastructure is "deficient". I delivered pizzas once upon a time, so I've dealt with numerous OLD apartments that will NOT be torn down willy nilly(tearing down old people and housing and low income housing for new luxurious housing is tone deaf) because they are still clearly making BANK, far more than more of the little couch people posting in this thread. . Not freaking Vancouver, which is a 1% only city these days.
Probably the no man's land of possible trouble are townhouses with outdoor power outlets. Yes, you can run a extension cord to the car, but it can become cumbersome when every house is running an extension cord out to their cars. An annoyance at best or some nut suing for a trip hazard at worst. Since they are run by HOAs or condos, what is common area and what is not matters a lot as well.