overclock question

[avenqer]

Hello

Virgin voyage here on anadtech and after pulling so much info from this site I figured it was time to join the group.

This will be my first system to overclock

I was hoping to make a cheap system but everytime I put everything together, I get 1700-2000 bucks.

This is the system that I am considering:

Case Antec PLUS1080AMG SOHO File server 5 case fans

Replace PSU and use 680W PSU (Cant remember name but only one that says is made for SLI boards, sells on NewEgg for 199.00

MB was considering the DFI SLI nF4 but I'm getting really tired of waiting for it. Would have considered the nF4 Ultra but after I read about nVidia being jerks and trying to stop the SLI tweak, I figured I better stay away from it. So... I'm not sure... recommendations would be great. Just any board that allow all locks and tweaks and is SLI

CPU Athlon 64 3000+ 90nm hey, cheap is cheap

Heat Sink and Fan: XP-90 (Thermallight suggest to stay away from the 120 on that board (DFI-SLI)and so I will, Fan? something 92mm with high CFM (90 or higher) will use Artic Silver 5 though I'm still leary about how much to use some say smear, some say make a rice size spot in middle and place on...confused there

Memory: I was considering the Corsair Value Dual Channel PC3200

HD: Raptor 10kRPM 74GB. I'm assuming this has a significant difference in performance since it decreases load times that many games seem to have.

Video: GeForce 6800GT PCIx, one for now... dang they are expensive!

floppy, DVD+RW, DVD-ROM, plain EIDE HD probably 80 GIGs for storage. Will use PCI slot fan for cooling video card, hoping it helps

Audigy SC, 91 dollar version hoping it helps save from drawing from CPU by disabling MB sound.

So anyway...

With that in mind, my goal is to just get the CPU to 266x9 = 2394 just close to 2.4
I really dont want to increase voltages or put components in any frying danger. But I am very new at this and not sure what I exactly need to do to accomplish this.

I want the memory to stay 1:1 as much as possible. But I'm guessing that means I'll need PC4200 ram? and what do I need to adjust to set this?

Is this something simple to accomplish? or did I just ask for something difficult?

I really just want to set everything up, set the timing and fire it up and go.

I know there are incriment testings but wouldnt 266 be safe to set at multiplier 9?
voltage settings?

I appreciate all assistance and again, great board!

P.S. Would prefer to use stock cooler if possible but dont know how much strain heat problems I'll have from 1.8 to 2.4

 

[Wicked2010]

With a FSB of 266, I wouldn't worry too much about using 1:1

Just try to get the timings tight and as high as the RAM will let you go with tight timings.

You may get 1:1 if you buy the new Corsair PC4400C25 RAM.

It sure is expensive though!!!

 

[avenqer]

G.skill (Samsung TCCD) Dual Channel Kit 184-Pin 1GB(512MB x 2) DDR PC-4400, Model F1-3200DSU2-1GBLD - Retail 229.00

considering the PC3200 low latency is 20 dollars more and about 100 more than value, and if I can keep the timings to 1:1 that'd be great...

But.... I'm sorry I'm so new at this

Does that mean all I'd have to do is adjust the FSB to 266, leave the multiplier at 9 and just make sure that THIS ram is set at 1:1? (I'm assuming that means just change to 1:1 or auto?)

no voltage changes?

again, sorry learning as I go. Read so much but still just looking for clarification on this build.

 

[Wicked2010]

You'll likely need to up the CPU voltage and the memory voltage for sure.

You'll have to go in increments. If you don't have alot of patience make the increments bigger. Start at 200, then try 210... then 220... that's really aggressive... but whatever right.

Not sure how tight the timings for the G. Skill would be at DDR500+... maybe you can find some people making comments about this? Usually it's just as good as DDR466 with really tight timings... which Crucial Ballistix can do at 2-2-2

It's tough to top Ballistix.

Remember, even if you can keep 1:1 at high speeds won't mean jack all if your timings are extremely loose.

 

[avenqer]

ok so this isnt still just a set and go, this will be step by step changes

if I use the 4400's can i just place them in and go or will those have to be adjusted first to go at stock speeds?

 

[imported_NoGodForMe]

I doubt you'll get that high on air.
People on forums tell people to buy the 3000+ and OC the heck out of it.
What they fail to mention, is that most who hit 270mz are doing it on water.
A few do it on air, but not many.
When you increase the Vcore, your temps will go up.
It's really a trial and error thing, running memtest to make sure there are no errors, then going higher with the FSB, then a little bump in the Vcore.

The other thing that really makes me scratch my head, is you're buying a top notch MB, top of the line memory, and then you put a 3000+ in it? It's like these people build top of the line everything, then go with a 3000+ just because people on the forums say too. Well, I'm one of the few who recommend going with the most powerful chip you can afford, because it will OC, and you'll be that much higher from the start.

 

[avenqer]

ok...

So, I'll assume that 3000+ is not the safe bet to overclock to 2.4... 2.6?

How about the 3500+ 90nm

can that be overclocked to 2.4 on stock hs/f ?

and should I go with the PC4400 or 4200? wanting to stay at 1:1 timings even with value ram.

thanks again for all input

I really am interested in overclocking but granted dont want to go crazy with it either.

I know its only 200Mhz and the price is a 130 dollar jump but at least its still a $140.00- savings boost from the 3800+...

 

[Painman]

All A64 Winchesters are the same chip, from the same wafers, from the same fabs... they can almost all hit 2.2, the speed that the 3500+ runs at, that's why few people here will recommend buying it over the 3000+ for close to twice the money. The oc potential of the 2 models are generally identical. 3000+ is as safe a bet for a 2.4-2.6 GHz oc as any other Winchester. The reason people may go for say, a 3200+ instead is due to concern that their mobo and/or RAM might not keep up with the higher FSB that a 3000+ will need to achieve a comparable oc.

If you want to step up from value RAM, you don't really need to but it can't hurt anything but your wallet - I'll also vouch for Ballistix. I've memtested mine so far at DDR530 2.5-3-3-6 1T, spec voltage (2.8) - not a single hiccup. I have the PC4000 stix.

Edit: Is this the 680W PSU you're looking at? Much better PSUs for less money IMO. Dual rail isn't really all that, and that's actually a weaker looking specimen as far as dual railers go.

Have a look at these...

Enermax #1, Enermax #2

OCZ #1, OCZ #2

Seasonic

Antec

Sparkle

All are 24 pin PSUs from good makers that I don't think too many people here would knock, all with good, strong 12v rails. All should be able to handle SLI, all are a lot cheaper than that TT also.

 

[avenqer]

A while back, I wrote an email regarding that question and after waiting a few days, got tired of waiting and called tech support for antec, the rep said that the 550 12vEPS would work just great.. then... I got this email:


From: "Tiffany Ellsworth" <tellsworth@antec-inc.com> Add to Address Book
To: "Al Toons"
Subject: Re: EPS12v
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:31:44 -0800


The EPS 12V will not work. The power supply we suggest is the NeoPower 480. I have attached a product flyer for more information.

Please click on the link below to help you determine how much power you will need.

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

Tiffany Ellsworth
Customer Support


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

t:800-222-6832
f:510-770-1288
www.antec.com

Anyone verify whether it does or doesnt work? Cause this was my first choice a while back.

Also I've read people using the TRUE430 PSU from Antec which came wit the SOHO case that I bought, but I thought it wouldnt be enough to run everything properly, anyone using that PSu and know if it works good?

Thanks

 

[Icepick]

The 3500+ will overclock easily to 2400MHz with the stock HSF. Keep in mind that overclocking these processors is YMMV (Your mileage may vary). No overclock is gauranteed.

Think about it this way. If you buy a 3000+ and it turns out to be a poor overclocker and you can only get it to run up to 2100 or 2200MHz will you be happy with that? If so then save a few bucks and buy it. You might get lucky enough to hit 2400+ and over. If you want to be gauranteed to run at least 2200MHz stable and have a very good chance to reach 3800+ speed or more with the stock HSF then go for the 3500+.

Edit: If you elect to buy the 3000+ and are going to try to get it to 2400MHz or above then I'd suggest investing in the XP-90. The stock HSF is going to get pretty noisy when your CPU heats up at those speeds.

 

[thegimp03]

What they fail to mention, is that most who hit 270mz are doing it on water.

What the heck are you talking about? lol...Actually, I hit 2.4 on air quite easily, not even pushing it to its max because I don't need that much speed right now. I run the regular hs/f with the stock cooling pad, and my CPU temp is 31C idle, and goes up to 40-43C under load playing all sorts of games...
Now go back into your hole with your fx-53 that you paid 800 bucks for knowing that I am running a 3000+ at a fraction of the price at higher performance (2.4 ghz).

 

[superkdogg]

I have a 3000+. 2.7 @ stock vCore and temps have never seen 60C. STOCK COOLING. That water comment is garbage.

My mobo's AGP lock is quirky, so if I want to play games I need to come all the way down to 285 from 300 (/sarcasm).

You have PLENTY of power supply-you may be able to shave a few bucks there. Depending on who you believe, the dual-rail can be a drawback because even though it allows more total power to get down the rails, one rail or the other can sometimes get overwhelmed because neither individually puts out as much juice as a quality single design. That's just what I've read-don't ask me where. I'm running a 350Watt Fortron unit that came in a $35 case! Check the numbers on A64 Power consumption-at max they get to 100 or so watts. At 12Volts, that means that 16-18 Amps of quality PSU would be enough. Many advocate for the 1.21 Gigawatt Flux Capacitors that are coming out, but those people also must be overclocking the Intel space heater....errr Prescotts that need a ton more from a PSU than A64's.

Also, as I already suggested, there's really no need to upgrade cooling on the A64's. If you do get a better OC it will be maybe 50-100 MHz over the pretty good air cooling they ship with the retail CPU's. There may be some merit in getting the XP-90 for the quietness factor if that's important to you. If the HS is doing more work, the fan can slow down a bit-but I wouldn't say that my CPU fan is any louder @ 2.7 than it is at stock of 1.8.

Another way to save $ is to know that running plain PC3200 on A64 is not all that penalizing. Sure, 1:1 performance is preferred, but I'm running my divider at 4:6 to allow 300 HTT and 2-3-2 1T timings on my ram.

Don't apologize for learning-that's the nature of the beast. Read the threads that are "stickied" to the top of this forum-there's lots of info in there.

Good luck and don't blame me if you can't get even 2.2 out of your OC, because...[all together now] YMMV.

 

[superkdogg]

As far as applying thermal paste and mounting here's your definitive guide for A64:

1. Retail HSF Thermal Pad is FINE. Forget what you knew before, the rule is broken in this case. Just put the CPU in the socket and slap the HSF on. Easy.

2. If you want to use thermal paste of any sort:

Make sure you have completely removed ALL of the thermal pad. That means alcohol, ether, any other solvent to make sure you get it all. Tiny pores and grooves are the enemy and to be sure that the pores or grooves are empty is the goal.
NEVER "smear" it on (at least not the way I'd think smearing means). All you're doing is filling in microscopic gaps that would otherwise have air (insulator) in them. You just want to apply enough to ensure that the surface is covered with a very thin layer. This is most important on Athlon XP's because they don't have the heatspreader, so good contact is critical. With all new P4's and A64's (except DTR's) the heatspreader gives you more margin for error. However, putting too much on is always going to HURT your temperatures, not help.

3. One word of caution. I have read of AS5 for sure, and possibly some others that harden and function like a glue. Thus, if you try to remove your HSF when your rig has been off for a while the possiblity exists that you'll yank out the CPU and all, even without flipping the lever (not good). To avoid this, remember to run something demanding for at least 20 min-1/2 hour before you want the HSF off. This will allow the thermal paste to warm up and make it possible to remove the HSF more easily.

Once again, good luck. And seriously read the stickied threads-they're informative.

 

[futangclan]

i hit 2.4ghz with a 3000+ and i'm running on air only.

 

[Appledrop]

Just get a 3000+ and some corsair value pc3200. Run the ram on a divider and then get uber timings [i use cas 1.5, unfortunately my mobo not like going below X-3-3-X ] and, with dual channel, PLENTY of bandwidth.

 

[Amplifier]

As far as your PSU goes, get a 400watt antec (don't worry about 20pin/24pin) ($60). Get a 1gb value pack of Kingston memory ($105). Grab a x800xl ($280) instead of the 6800gt . Then pick up a winchester 3500+ ($290). Ditch the discrete sound card and get a mobo with good onboard sound.

There you go, top knotch gaming computer and I saved you a few hundred bucks.

 

[TooRude]

I also think the water comment is bogus actually alot of people get 3000+ to 2.6 - 2.7 on air anything above is usually water. go with G Skill pc 4400 from what ive seen nforce 4 boards love TCCD right now ( and price is amazing compared to other options like OCZ VX ) I have my system at 285 1:1 2.5 3 3 7 on a DFI ultra board G Skill 4400 and 3000+ my chip is actually whats holding me back my friend has a better week and is currently at 300 1:1 with the same ram and same timings.

As far as PSUs go Fortron all the way http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-934&depa=0

quick oc advice for amd64s with a 3000+ ur max multi will be 9x which means less options for mem ratios to match up 3200+ gives you a 10 multiplier and for most ram an easier chance to hit a stable max for both ram and cpu. the only reason i got a 3000+ is i KNEW that with TCCD and nforce4 DFI ultra id be able to attain the clock i wanted. If your unsure I would go with 3200+ just for the 10x multiplyer

If money is big factor 3000+ and a DFI ultra D together on monarch is like 280$
PSU 90$
G Skill pc4400 1gig 230$

youll have a pretty sick computer with that setup guaranteed
(refferences to read for further info - http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=364223 - hitech has alot of awesome articles on a64 rigs

hope all this info helps

 

[TooRude]

Well, I'm one of the few who recommend going with the most powerful chip you can afford, because it will OC, and you'll be that much higher from the start.

Wow.... Gonna give quick and easy response. AMD and Intel save money by producing 1 chip they then bin them depending on what they can reach but ALOT of the ones that are binned at lower speeds can still overclock beyond their higher stock counterparts. If you buy a 4000+ for a crap load of money that chip will top out exactly where a good 3000+ will. Im not saying 100% everytime because most people who want a good oc will do their homework and find out which production week produced the best oc capable chips. my last system was a 2.8c which on water i got to 3.8 my friend spent more money then me and bought a 3.0c with the same idea as yours and what do ya know... his chip topped out before mine... thats all

 

[Neurorelay]

I ran a 3000+ at 2.4 (9x266) with a slight increase in voltage. Temps are way acceptable, YMMV.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: NoGodForMe
I doubt you'll get that high on air.
People on forums tell people to buy the 3000+ and OC the heck out of it.
What they fail to mention, is that most who hit 270mz are doing it on water.
A few do it on air, but not many.
When you increase the Vcore, your temps will go up.
It's really a trial and error thing, running memtest to make sure there are no errors, then going higher with the FSB, then a little bump in the Vcore.

The other thing that really makes me scratch my head, is you're buying a top notch MB, top of the line memory, and then you put a 3000+ in it? It's like these people build top of the line everything, then go with a 3000+ just because people on the forums say too. Well, I'm one of the few who recommend going with the most powerful chip you can afford, because it will OC, and you'll be that much higher from the start.

Stupid statements are abundant in this one!!!

1) Most of us that hit 2.66ghz can get 2.7ghz on air but more vcore then we like..I can get 2700mhz at 1.62v actual but chose not to because of heat (max load is 54c) but because the added vcore is not worth the tiny percentage of increase....


The reason the ppl get top of the line components genius is so that we can overclock further....it makes sense to then go with a cheaper chip that probably tops out at the same range as all the other more expensive chips. Top of the line mobo is needed for a mobo that can handle 290-300HTT to get to 2.6-2.7ghz...Top of the line ram is needed to run even 166 divider at those HTT speeds....

Its the idiots who buy the 3000+ with ideas in their head to get to 2.6ghz and then get unproven boards to try to do it. Boards that cant seen to hit +270HTT reliably with any divider let alone 290-300.....

I can afford a 3500+ so your comment is once again stupid...I could afford a 4000+...i chose not to cause I know what I am doing and know I have almost as much chance of hitting the highest OC of many of the chips without wasting the money....

Name of the game...Dont like it dont play it!!!