Oxidizied / flaking clear coat solution,

[ino uno soweno]

 

[ino uno soweno]

Blue lines show the clearest section, red lines show a defused lower section,

 

[ino uno soweno]

Looking at a downward angle on the last pic shows the bottom of the headlight (blue line /arrow) is clean and clear, red lines show over sanding,

 

[ino uno soweno]

Drivers side shows a dull appearence,

 

[ino uno soweno]

Down ward angle shows really dull appearance, I had a machine mall function today,so not much done, all fixed now, more sanding tomorrow, these head lights are 5 years old, 2 years in the hot yard, so I would suggest that would be equile to 6 or 7 years of UV damage,

 

[ino uno soweno]

Sorry, I am back into my usual step, “ one step forward, then two steps back,
I have power on site problems today,( 50feet short, ) so no sanding or polishing headlights today,
However,
A pic, I think will look better when I am finished,

 

[ino uno soweno]

And some food for thought for those who choose to read on,
Removing oxidization or deoxidizing the oxidization as it oxidizes,
So, some lines of thought is removing the oxidization, as the surface oxidizes, ??, please consider the average Joe really does leave it too late before he sees the oxidization, so “ perhaps “ the solution is to remove the oxidization before it is visible, one scenario may be buy a new car, or new headlights, access the environmental conditions that the head lights will be subjected to, maybe 12 or 18 months later polishes the still good head light, but not new looking headlight cover to remove “ invisible oxidization “ with only a “””””extremely “””” fine headlight polish which will only remove slight oxidization, and no or only the slightest loss of depth of the thin UV “ film” now found on head lights,
The focus is a preventive maintenance, removing invisible oxidization before it oxidizes into visible oxidization, maybe every 2 years,( no sand paper at all,) very quick single stage polish, DIY,
Invisible oxidization promotes visible oxidation due to any oxidization on a surface creates a rough surface, which retains oxidizing pollutants, road grim,
Power is back on, Back asap,

 

[Zenmervolt]

You REALLY need to learn how to consolidate your posts. This morning you made 6 posts in this thread in a half-hour (posts #75 through #80, inclusive) without anyone else posting anything for you to respond to. All six could easily have been combined into a single post. The day before, it was seven within a half-hour with no other posters responding.

I know that you're trying, but it's borderline spam to post in that manner. There's no need to make a separate post for every single image. All it does is detract from what you're trying to do.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Moderator

 

[ino uno soweno]

You REALLY need to learn how to consolidate your posts. This morning you made 6 posts in this thread in a half-hour (posts #75 through #80, inclusive) without anyone else posting anything for you to respond to. All six could easily have been combined into a single post. The day before, it was seven within a half-hour with no other posters responding.

I know that you're trying, but it's borderline spam to post in that manner. There's no need to make a separate post for every single image. All it does is detract from what you're trying to do.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Moderator

Ok, First, as I said before, I have little computer know how, I prefer to focus on car stuff, yes you can call me a computer dummy, I am proud of it, being a breeder not reader, haha, ( that is a friendly joke,)

So the facts are I have and use photo bucket for my pictures,, I copy the IMG and paste it or them in my office word, along with comments,

When, I copy multi pics ( 2 or more,) from office word, and comments, and paste into quick reply or quote on this forum,

"""" those pictures double click link to access to my entire photo bucket photo's, """".
( so just so I am clear, if I post 1 picture, there is no access to my photo bucket account, if I post more than 1 picture, the world has access to my photo bucket account, and I fear someone will delete something or all, ).

Which is not really a problem for me, but I think if all of you all saw my 800 -900 pics, that would only confuse you all, and there are a few naked puppy pics,

Alot of my pics on photo bucket are dirty, dirt pictures, miners do it in the dirt, as you know,


Under high magnification and Very confusing and a long story,

And most of the time, photo bucket stalls or just stops, when I try upload more then 1 or multi pics, just trying to upload from my computer to photo bucket is such a drama, photo bucket screws me over for hours just trying to get a few pics up, ???. you would not believe how much frustration I get from photo bucket,

So, Please understand photo bucket, is the problem along with me not knowing how to fix it, or if it can be fixed, and I do not have much computer help handy, and when it does work for me I try to get up pics on the subject,

Please do not suggest, I change to another photo storage, it has taken me 9 years to get photo bucket to screw me over like it does,

Yes, true, 14 responses to 60 odd posts of mine, but the reason why I post, is I see members asking questions, in relation to painting or not painting, their cars, and polishing headlights, ect, I hope it helps who ever, and I want to share my experiences, and alot members are viewing everyday,,

In particular and for example, I remember one of the members posted and said he was replacing his WRX headlights, I have been thinking that would be expensive, and wondered since then,
1, what are WRX headlights like to remove oxidation, ??.
2, maybe I can find a WRX to try and restore, ???. with pics,
last night when dinner was ready and it was dark,, a WRX drives in the drive, so I conned him into letting me have a little buff on his headlights, 10mins and got pics, and I was hoping to post them and give that op and other WRX members some ideas they can see with their eyes, , ???. more info for him and other WRX owners,

" you say above ",

"without anyone else posting anything for you to respond to"

1, I was thinking that, that by judging by the number of viewers viewing threads every day,, members where interested and happy in just watch and wait to read whatever is interesting to them , ??. but I may be wrong, if so please let me know why so many views if no one is interested in what i want to share, ??.

But, as you say " I should not post unless someone askes a question, and requires a response,


I do want to do as I am told,

So in future, ( all members please note, ) I will "not" post what ever i think will be of assitance other members, I will only post answers to specific questions , if that is the forum rules, ??.

As too reference to me being a spam-mer, I really do not have the faintest "idea " what you mean,
I relate to spam--ming as the popups trying to con or sell or steal??? that have infected my computer, ??.
and I understand what Wilki says,

Spam is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited bulk messages, especially advertising, indiscriminately. While the most widely recognized form of spam is e-mail spam,
the term is applied to similar abuses in other media: instant messaging spam, Usenet newsgroup spam, Web search engine spam, spam in blogs, wiki spam, online classified ads spam, mobile phone messaging spam, Internet forum spam, junk fax transmissions, social networking spam, social spam, television advertising and file sharing spam. It is named for Spam, a luncheon meat, by way of a Monty Python sketch in which Spam is included in almost every dish.


That is disgusting to me, you couldalso insult me by aqusing me of beating my dogs,
Do you think I am doing any of the above, ??.
Do you think I want to sell you something, ???. I am not selling anything, it would simply be too much of a hassle to me, trust me, I already showed pics of the products I use,??, and suggest you all just try, which I source from and directly through the USA, ??. yes ok I am spamming / recommending your own products to you, because I do not see you using them on the forum, , and suggest you buy it from a shop close to you, I do not get any money. I do not want any of your money, I hope you understand that now,, ??.
Also, while I have you attention, I have had been thinking about a members words,,

“ I hate rust!!!!

no one answered my question, I know all cars rust here in the mid-west with the salt we lay down but is this more prone to nissans/hondas. I'm judging by surface rust i see on the rear quarters. You dont see it much on a E36 bmw or a benz from 98. Ive seem some americans cars show some rust but on nissans and hondas a lot of those rear quarters on almost GONE. The 98 maxima isn't bad but the whole underside from the radiator support and rear suspension is a rusty shame.”




I asked the op a question, but I got no response, and remember back then something about being told I was a thread shit-er or something, by posting to a none,- response,??.

I have thought about it and thinking about the rust problem and would like to share with anyone interested, ??.I have relitive expereinces,

So if you think other or yourself members might be interested, please give instructions on how and where to post, please,

 

[Pacfanweb]

Once the clear is peeling there is no fix that I'm aware of but sand and respray.

Some oxidation can be buffed and cleaned up. I've seen that before. But peeled clear? Nope.

Correct. There is no permanent fix for peeling clear coat.

If you can get it all off, you can certainly polish the base coat underneath, but it will be a never-ending process....it will fade and fade and never stop, and you'll never have to stop polishing.

Only way to fix it permanently is sand it all of and repaint, re-clear the whole thing.

Or better yet, repaint with Dupont's Imron single-stage, and have a paint job you never have to wax, that won't fade and is almost as tough as concrete.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Try writing everything into a Word Processing program before posting, including the tags for photos. Then just copy and paste all that text into one post. It will be easier for us to read this ridiculousness.

 

[Zenmervolt]

1) No matter how many links you put in a post, it doesn't give other people access to delete your files. That's just not how photobucket works. There is absolutely no reason to make a separate post for each image. Literally millions of other people are perfectly able to put more than one image from photobucket into a single post without giving access to their entire albums. This isn't a photobucket issue.

2) I realize that you are not a native English speaker so we'll try to make this more clear: You are free to post whenever you like. But when you make 7 separate posts in 30 minutes you are flooding the forum (which is similar to spam in that it involves making many many posts in rapid succession) and that is bad manners. It's the internet equivalent of being at a party and talking to people with your face only a centimeter in front of theirs. It doesn't matter how friendly you are, it's just not appropriate.

3) Again, the problem is NOT "what" you are posting, it's "how" you are posting.

4) Don't copy links into Word first. Word does weird formatting things when you paste into it from other programs. If you must use a word processor, use a plain text editor like Notepad that won't make weird formatting decisions.

5) You can be as disturbed about it as you like, but the simple fact is that the manner in which you post is highly consistent with spammers. Being disturbed doesn't change reality.

6) You've been given several helpful tips over the past month or so regarding how to conform your posting style with forum norms. At some point the hints will stop and the infractions will begin.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Moderator

 

[Zenmervolt]

As a helpful example, this is what those six rapid-fire posts the other day SHOULD have looked like.

Notice how the descriptive text comes before the photos and also notice that despite what you claim, this does NOT give people access to your entire Photobucket account even though it is all in one post.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Moderator

First buff.





Blue lines show the clearest section, red lines show a defused lower section.



Looking at a downward angle on the last pic shows the bottom of the headlight (blue line /arrow) is clean and clear, red lines show over sanding.



Drivers side shows a dull appearence.



Down ward angle shows really dull appearance. I had a machine mall function today, so not much done, all fixed now, more sanding tomorrow, these head lights are 5 years old, 2 years in the hot yard, so I would suggest that would be equile to 6 or 7 years of UV damage.

 

[Remobz]

Well, a respray would fix all the scratches and stuff and god knows what the paint looks like up close. Plus the bumper looks totally off. I agree that paying several grand to respray that car is far from worth it and the home-brewed method is best for a car like this, but you can't say this is as good as a respray. Good enough yes, but not as good.

My dad been in the car paint business since 1962 and to this day he refuses to use clear coat on his vehicles if doing a repaint. It can be a real pain to have cars redone with clear coat.

 

[Remobz]

Correct. There is no permanent fix for peeling clear coat.

If you can get it all off, you can certainly polish the base coat underneath, but it will be a never-ending process....it will fade and fade and never stop, and you'll never have to stop polishing.

Only way to fix it permanently is sand it all of and repaint, re-clear the whole thing.

Or better yet, repaint with Dupont's Imron single-stage, and have a paint job you never have to wax, that won't fade and is almost as tough as concrete.

Solid advice!!

We use to sell Imron at my Dupont store here. Problem is that it is very expensive to import into the Country and people here rather save their pennies. All the same, damn good single stage paint.

 

[ino uno soweno]

Correct. There is no permanent fix for peeling clear coat.

If you can get it all off, you can certainly polish the base coat underneath, but it will be a never-ending process....it will fade and fade and never stop, and you'll never have to stop polishing.

Only way to fix it permanently is sand it all of and repaint, re-clear the whole thing.

Or better yet, repaint with Dupont's Imron single-stage, and have a paint job you never have to wax, that won't fade and is almost as tough as concrete.

If you can get it all off, “ you can certainly polish the base coat underneath”,
but it will be a never-ending process....it will fade and fade and never stop, and you'll never have to stop polishing.




So we agree, removing flaky clear coat can be done, ,


We also agree certainly polish the base colour coat underneath, as per what my pictures show, red Celica,


What puzzles me is, are you saying “ all “ base colour coatings are really soft as you indicate,, or only the colour base coats under clear coatings. ??.


I thought, the base colour coat under the clear coat I removed off the red Celica, was just as hard as the white base coat on the wagon there, pictured above, ( no clear coat, ) and as hard as the white colour base coat on the Suzuki, and yellow base colour coat on the Mazda, red Ford Fiesta, no clear coat, and all pictured above, ??.
I have been wondering about that, myself, I will be testing the hardness of all paints above, using the pencil hardness scratch test, based on using a set of graphite pencils covering the hardness range 6B to 9H, I will begin by testing a 9H pencil on aluminium and high impact Thermoplastic based Acrylic / Polycarbonate, ( methyl methacrylates ) which as you know are said to be 9H hardness,




I need a wider range of pencils first, and also I might have to hut around and find which Aluminium alloy has a 9H hardness, and perhaps expand the test to qualify which aluminium alloy hardness compares to soft and hard base colour coatings, ???. note to self, check polymer hardness too,
Thanks, I will check out Dupont's Imron single-stage, hopefully give it a pencil test too,
Will post scratch test results as asap.

 

[Pacfanweb]

^What I'm saying is, a base coat can't handle the UV or weather without the clear over it. It's not designed to.

So you can certainly polish it right up and it'll look good, but it'll fade again, and quickly, compared to a single-stage color. It'll even fade if not exposed to the sun, just not quite as fast.

 

[ino uno soweno]

^What I'm saying is, a base coat can't handle the UV or weather without the clear over it. It's not designed to.

So you can certainly polish it right up and it'll look good, but it'll fade again, and quickly, compared to a single-stage color. It'll even fade if not exposed to the sun, just not quite as fast.

Pacfanweb, sorry mate, , I am just really flu sick, back as soon as possible,

 

[ino uno soweno]

^What I'm saying is, a base coat can't handle the UV or weather without the clear over it. It's not designed to.

So you can certainly polish it right up and it'll look good, but it'll fade again, and quickly, compared to a single-stage color. It'll even fade if not exposed to the sun, just not quite as fast.

Thanks for the reply,
Perhaps a few base coats were designed to be soft by cheap car makers or cheap paint makers, , ?


I really do not know which ones, ??. and after checking my sources, spray painters a few doors up, and after going to my suppliers, I would not advise “ asking” if they can sell you a soft single base coat colour, they just cannot understand why anyone would want to put a soft coat of paint on a car, that is the response I got,


But please note one of my experiences in removing flaky clear coats is usually, that the clear coat has been applied over a older single stage (that is designed to be hard) and applying years after the original base colour coat was applied,


I also try to remember when ever a clear coat that has gone bad, could have been applied by someone with no experience, (That being part of the reason why it is flaking off, no experience, )


I also try to remember when in the preparation, they also sanded most of the thickness of the base colour coat “ off “ with 600 – 800, and left areas where the base colour coat is very now thin, and full of 600-800 depth sanding scratches. they were just rubbing out a few scratches , you know, ,


Please also note, I have previously mentioned and shown pictures of a “ choice “ of “applying a protecting coat, “


1, not “ paint, with a compressor and a special heated room, at great cost, a Urethane or whatever clear type coat,)


2, as opposed to a very very easy to apply very hard polymer “protective coating”, which in my experience, well my experience is as follows,


I hope you will not be surprised to hear, I actually have a 40 odd year old “bonnet stone chip” “fetish”, I hate bonnet chips with a passion, the first 25 odd years, I just fixed all stone chips / scratches by on all my cars in use, so I could not see any stone chip with just my eyes,
You would be surprised how easy it is with practice and little magnification, to fix the tiniest stone paint chips, if you have never seen it done, you will be surprised or maybe you know it already,


One of the reasons I like and recommend this polymer is based on when I first started using the polymer protectorate, some 15 -17 years ago, I would find almost no small/ fine and big stone chips, big chips were there from big rocks, even the polymer can’t stop everything, but my point is I did observe a lot less small stone chips, and it gets harder with age,
Also please note, the polymer keeps it shining for well over 7 years, regardless of shocking abuse and not washing for nearly 4 years,
Please note the shine and reflection of the building in this picture,
And here,







And still quickly clean off to show original paint has been protected, here,







Some may ask why I left it out there without even washing it or covering it up,
“The answer is in the pictures”, and that is I know the polymer was protecting the original base colour coat, , there was no base coat sanded or damaged or lost when I cleaned it, not bad for 15 year old paint, first polymer coat applied 6 years ago,
Indicating to me that I could leave that wagon safely there unwashed for another 4 years without washing it and expect no oxidization on or into the base colour coating,

please note, I plan to carry out another observation on the other dirty side of the wagon, pictured above, bonnet and guard,
This time I will wash, then straight buff with a course compound, wash again, then buff with medium compound, wash again, then buff with a fine swirl removing compound, then the finest of compounds, plastic buffing compound, please note, I expect not to actually buff down the base colour,
More to come,

 

[ino uno soweno]

Also, Pacfanweb.
Please note, also further points concerning the polymer I use, Nu-Finish, polymer with zinc cross linked technology ,
In my opinion based on my 17 years of research and observations, Nu-Finish is the ultimate in “UV “ Absorption”, which is “ far” more advanced and effective than inherently UV resistant coatings, or naturally UV resistant Coatings,


The big difference is ABSORBTION OF PHOTONS OF THE WHOLE LIGHT RADIATION SPECTUM, AND CONVERTING THEM INTO HARMLESS AND EASERLY DISPERSED HEAT on and just inside the polymer surface, ,



This does not happen on UV resistant coatings, UV resistant coating only reduce the Radiation getting through surface of the clear coat, all the way to the paint surface, and bouncing back again through the clear coating, and affecting the depth of the clear coat both ways, in a manner of speaking,bounce around, ??.



I agree with the manufactures claim that is once a year application, to get best results, . over the last 17 years I have gotten away with 3 + years in-between applications, many times,easy.


Second, is their advertising in which they show Nu-Finish being applied to a very oxidized base colour paint, and is hand buffed to a beautiful shine with a mirror reflection,
I show this picture to show you what they say is " true ', here I applied Nu-Finish to the old yellow Mazda shown in previous pics,



I thought you may be interested to see me do as they do in the advertisement, where a lot of rubbing on a oxidized paint, can be restored to mirror reflection, along with an expected 6 year protection of that paint surface, if the car sits there for another 6 years, ??
Please note the lower half of the picture shows bad oxidization, very dull yellow, upper half of the picture shows shinny bright yellow paint, ( I only rubbed on the polymer coating on a small area, 3 mins, then left it for 60 mins, and came back and quickly buffed of the polymer residue, 2mins ) showing the factory mirror image reflection in detail on the car,






Please also note, My experience is some oxidized paint surfaces are just too oxidized and require sanding or buffing before applying Nu-finish, so it does not work every time, but always works in the end, if you know what I mean,
If you have a spare 6 years, I suggest you try it, and most important is I do not have to pay for a respray, or a sprayed clear coat, and no drama.
I actually have a bit of a fear and theory, on Acrylic / Urethane clear top coats, which I hope to clarify with JCH soon,
I hope you stay tuned in and further share your thoughts this us, please,
And I appreciate you’re your efforts in posting, thanks, ,

 

[ino uno soweno]

My dad been in the car paint business since 1962 and to this day he refuses to use clear coat on his vehicles if doing a repaint. It can be a real pain to have cars redone with clear coat.

Thanks for posting, ya dad sounds like a fine man, and a true doer of wisdom, please pass on my respects to him,

I hope you all are well.

 

[JCH13]

My Miata has been repainted twice. The first time it was repainted the previous owner did not use any clear coat and the paint severely faded within 3 years. This second go-around Black2NA cleared everything and it looks fantastic two years later.

No complications from repainting (for the 2nd time!) with clear coat on top. No idea why anyone would have trouble with it either.

 

[ino uno soweno]

My Miata has been repainted twice. The first time it was repainted the previous owner did not use any clear coat and the paint severely faded within 3 years. This second go-around Black2NA cleared everything and it looks fantastic two years later.

No complications from repainting (for the 2nd time!) with clear coat on top. No idea why anyone would have trouble with it either.

Dear J.
I would just like to get some clarification please,
The first owner repainted the car, and 3 years later the paint severely faded,
Question, which part of the 3 years did you own the car, ??. if at all, ??, and what polishes and polishing / buffing regime did you apply to the car, and fading paint, if at all,
Question, did you own the car when it was repainted the 2nd time around, how much did it cost, ?? , who did the actual repaint in Black2NA, DIY, or professional, and again what polishing / buffing regime do you apply to Black2NA,
Question, is your car camera shy or top secret, or can you get some pictures posted please,
Question, what is this car purpose, example daily driver, weekend cruiser, ???.
Question, please detail engine mods, a few pics of engine bay, would be great please,
Ino.

 

[JCH13]

Dear J.
I would just like to get some clarification please,
The first owner repainted the car, and 3 years later the paint severely faded,
Question, which part of the 3 years did you own the car, ??. if at all, ??, and what polishes and polishing / buffing regime did you apply to the car, and fading paint, if at all,
Question, did you own the car when it was repainted the 2nd time around, how much did it cost, ?? , who did the actual repaint in Black2NA, DIY, or professional, and again what polishing / buffing regime do you apply to Black2NA,
Question, is your car camera shy or top secret, or can you get some pictures posted please,
Question, what is this car purpose, example daily driver, weekend cruiser, ???.
Question, please detail engine mods, a few pics of engine bay, would be great please,
Ino.

The last year of the 3 years.

I waxed it at the start and the end of the summer.

Black2NA (AT user) = Professional. No polishing/buffing regimen. I have washed the car three times since it has been painted. Note: a few panels were just finished up this spring, but a majority have been repainted for a while. I paid well under $1k for labor and consumables, all of the paint was left-overs from other cars and thus free.

It is a summer car. I use it as frequently as I can. When it is inside my garage it gets exposed to ozone, welding arc light, chemical vapors, etc.

I am a regular in the garage, please read my build thread to answer your other questions: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2217920

 

[ino uno soweno]

The last year of the 3 years.

I waxed it at the start and the end of the summer.

Black2NA (AT user) = Professional. No polishing/buffing regimen. I have washed the car three times since it has been painted. Note: a few panels were just finished up this spring, but a majority have been repainted for a while. I paid well under $1k for labor and consumables, all of the paint was left-overs from other cars and thus free.

It is a summer car. I use it as frequently as I can. When it is inside my garage it gets exposed to ozone, welding arc light, chemical vapors, etc.

I am a regular in the garage, please read my build thread to answer your other questions: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2217920

So you waxed it start and end of summer, and then paint oxidized, ??

But you were and wanted to paint it those colours anyway, ?? at the end of the year,