P55A-UD4 is on Newegg

[Interitus]

Thanks for that reply Interitus. That helps a lot for my decision. Although I probably won't use crossfire anyway, does that mean the gigabyte P55 boards won't be much of a performance hit in crossfire?

Well if the rumors are true, then SLI/CF gets disabled when USB3/SATA3 are on. In that case it takes the PCIe lanes completely out of the equation since SLI/CF is just "disabled" altogether. However in terms of just SLI/CF without SATA3/USB3 enabled, I'm sure that the P55 boards are fine for SLI/CF. I would imagine the only cards that would really start to see diminishing results would be the multi-core on single PCB cards like the 4870x2 or the GTX295. Don't quote me on that, I have no evidence to back it up.

Basically what you're looking at with this board is one of 2 scenarios:

1) You use SATA3/USB3 and wind up with a single card in an x8 bandwidth slot

or

2) You don't use SATA3/USB3 and you get one x16 or 2 x8 slots.

This is a big reason why I *might* decide to hold off for X58 boards with USB3/SATA3. Even if they have to cough up some PCIe lanes, they've got more than enough for this solution and SLI as well. I still don't understand how the Asus solution is any different. I would imagine it still has to use some PCIe lanes to get the bandwidth it needs. There's just not enough lanes on P55 to have the best of both worlds.

 

[Samwise]

Thanks again Interitus. That clears things up. Do you think there is any chance of there being any X58 boards with USB3/SATA3 that cost less than $200?

 

[lothar]

Thanks again Interitus. That clears things up. Do you think there is any chance of there being any X58 boards with USB3/SATA3 that cost less than $200?

No chance.

 

[lothar]

There's an article floating around about how little of a performance hit x8 vs. x16 is on even the newer 5xxx series. It was somewhere around 1-2% reduction at x8 and around 5% at x4 (Gen 2, not 1).

I'll try to dig it up later. Cliff's notes: It doesn't make as big of a difference as you'd think.


--EDIT--

Here I found it - http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/7.html

Currently, there's no difference.
However, I'm a person who keeps my system for 4-5+ years and only do one videocard update before deciding to replace the entire system.

I have no idea how cards from ATI and Nvidia two gens from now would perform in 8x mode.
If I was a person who upgrades my entire system every year or two, then sure I wouldn't care about 8x mode since it's pretty much useless right now.

I plan to upgrade before the end of this year and if I do, I will skip Sandy bridge, Ivy bridge, and jump straight to Haswell(I plan on skipping this if I can also) or it's successor.

 

[lothar]

I still don't understand how the Asus solution is any different. I would imagine it still has to use some PCIe lanes to get the bandwidth it needs. There's just not enough lanes on P55 to have the best of both worlds.

Regardless of how ASUS accomplishes this(whether it works as advertised and keeps the x16 slot intact while still providing "full" SATA3/USB3 bandwith or not), I am still of the opinion that paying $250 for a P55 mobo is a waste of money. Might as well get an X58.

 

[Samwise]

If the 5870 is only losing 1-2% now in 8x and 4-5% in 4x, I can't think that even a couple years from now a videocard losing much more than 5% in 8x. I mean 16x has been around for a while now and they still aren't fully taking advantage of it.

 

[Interitus]

Thanks again Interitus. That clears things up. Do you think there is any chance of there being any X58 boards with USB3/SATA3 that cost less than $200?

As lothar said, there's little to no chance of finding one with the 3's for that cheap. It's hard enough to find a regular X58 board for that much. If they hold true to the $15-$20 premium on X58 like they did on P55, the best bet would be some form of the UD3R board with SATA3/USB3, which would run close to $200, but the only Gigabyte board planned so far is the X58 Extreme2, which is probably a $300 board.

I personally don't mind paying around $225-$250 for a board IF and only IF it has everything I want. So for an X58 board that's acceptable. But for a P55 board with the kind of limitations involved, I would cap my budget around the $180'ish for the A series UD4 from Gigabyte.

I do upgrade my rig at least once every 2 years, so by the time Gulftown is available, I'll already be preparing to upgrade again. I also won't be upgrading my graphics card until the system upgrade again, so if what I buy now works fine on x8, I'm not worried about future cards.

I do understand the alternative point of view for some others that don't upgrade as often, and it's good to point that out when considering the options. I still really don't feel that the P55A solution would bother me at all, I just hate feeling like I would be trapped into not being able to use SLI in the future if I change my mind.

Had a few unexpected costs pop up this month, so looks like I have some time to wait on X58 anyways

 

[lothar]

ASUS USB3/SATA3 board implementation will cost $250+. Not worth it.
They say the P7P55 line will have the option for an add-on card(which you have to pay for of course).
No idea how much the add-on card will cost but I expect it to be much more than the $15 price premium you pay to get a Gigabyte P55A mobo over the regular P55 line.

ASUS advertises that theirs uses a bridge chip which gives the full bandwith and is therefore not crippled like Gigabytes solution.

Will it make a difference? Who knows.
With Intel not implementing that on their motherboards till 2011, we may not know for the next 1-2 years, and USB3/SATA3 products won't flood the marketplace until about a year or 2 after Intel's implementation.

By then you're already considering Ivybridge or Haswell which would require a new motherboard anyways.

When is X58 refresh supposed to come out? I haven't heard a thing about it.
Can it be assumed that Gigabytes implementation of SATA3 and USB3 won't be crippled this time since there's more than enough lanes on the X58?

Also, enabling SATA3/USB3 on Gigabytes P55A drops your primary x16 graphics to 8x mode.
Is that the same with ASUS's implementation?

Since ASUS says the regular P7P55 owners will be able to get the features through an add-on card, I wonder if someone can just get an Asrock X58 Extreme and just buy the card separately.
Shouldn't that work? That might be a good strategy for anyone that's dead set on X58.

Again, the only problem is how much the add-on card is gonna cost. ASUS hasn't released pricing details yet...

 

[Interitus]

Again, the only problem is how much the add-on card is gonna cost. ASUS hasn't released pricing details yet...

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they were looking at $29.99

-edit-

Found it

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/exclusive_first_usb_30_and_sata_60_expansion_card_will_sell_30

 

[Collider]

So can anyone spot any cons of going with x58 + the add-on card?

Because it seems like another win for x58, you can use the Sata3 card and still run your primary VGA @ 16x.

 

[lothar]

So can anyone spot any cons of going with x58 + the add-on card?

Because it seems like another win for x58, you can use the Sata3 card and still run your primary VGA @ 16x.

Umm...Price?

 

[lothar]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239344

 

[Interitus]

Saw that last night. I really hope GB isn't trying to screw over its customers.

From a post in that thread it looks like Lotes doesn't actually make the pin part of the socket, just the clamp etc.. Hopefully that's all it takes to fix the issues.

If this isn't cleared up soon I'll definitely be headed the way of EVGA.

 

[lothar]

Saw that last night. I really hope GB isn't trying to screw over its customers.

From a post in that thread it looks like Lotes doesn't actually make the pin part of the socket, just the clamp etc.. Hopefully that's all it takes to fix the issues.

If this isn't cleared up soon I'll definitely be headed the way of EVGA.

Yeah, If I don't see much explanation I'll be a bit pissed.
I should have just gone UD3R a month ago.
The stick of RAM I wanted has gone up by $20-25, and there's no more save $20 when you buy Gigabyte mobo with GSkill ram combo.
So far, lost $40-45 by waiting for a month.

I still won't go eVGA because their boards are overpriced though.

 

[Derek Hanson]

I'm looking at the p55a UD3 for a new build... It has all the features I need and not much I don't need. Also the construction and engineering seems sound. Originally I was intending on going with an Intel brand board thinking that compatibility and reliability would be the best with Intel.. I'm not going to bother with overclocking so I'm just looking for reliability and features, and no non-sense..
Then I saw that for the same price as the Intel board I was eyeing I could get a Gigabyte P55a that claims to have Sata 3 and USB 3 and heavy copper pcb/rf chokes/quality caps etc..

..But if the sata 3 and usb 3 is essentially a jerry-rigged feature and implemented in a way that hinders other components then maybe I don't want it on the board at all?

-but-
From what I've read I'm not entirely convinced that using SATA 3 would compromise the 16x pcie if you're running just a single GPU.. Can anyone confirm or deny that the PCIe compromise of this particular Sata3 implementation only comes into play when trying to run a mulit-GPU setup?

Somehow this is very foggy and Gigabyte's product literature does a terrible job explaining what is actually going on with the sata 3 and usb 3. By the way does using the USB 3 also reduce your PCI lanes?

Another conclusion I've made is that if you have your heart set on multi-GPU then you really should look at the x58 boards. Multi-GPU does not seem to be any kind of priority for P55 boards. Which is fine for me as I've always had a feeling that dual-gpu's is mostly a marketing gimmick.

 

[Derek Hanson]

OK, so after further reading it seems that there really is only one 16x PCIe 2.0 lane on the P55a (maybe this is the same for all P55 boards?) so if you enable USB/SATA 3 the Gigabyte board allocates 8 of the 16 available PCIe 2.0 lanes to it.

...That's lame! why not eat up the PCIe generation 1.0 lanes as it's less likely they'll be in use. I mean can you even buy a GPU these days that isn't a 16x card? Now I understand that you're not loosing too much when you go down to 8x.. but why would you?

Maybe I'll go for the Intel board after all..

 

[Interitus]

I'm really moving closer and closer to the X58 side every day. All this P55 drama is exhausting. I'm not going to spend $500 on a CPU and board if I'm going to be worrying about it going up in smoke one day, especially since nobody's taking blame for it. I don't care if it's "only limited to overclocking" or not, it's stupid to pay that kind of money for an obviously flawed product, especially when most of these boards feature OC-friendly options. Factor in the lack of PCIe lanes for USB3/SATA3 and it's just hard to resist moving to X58.

Come on X58 refresh, lol.

 

[n7]

Seriously, where are all these boards going up in smoke?

Really, please do link to these many posters on forums with all these problems.

Oh wait, they all but don't exist!

While i agree it's a serious issue that got overlooked, the fact is, an insanely small number of people have been affected by this!

I'm so sick & tired of what's pretty much purely FUD being flung around about Foxconn sockets, when it's affecting basically no one other than extreme OCers, something we don't really even have here on AT.


It reminds of the article AT did on LLC, & how it kills CPUs, or the same for VTT too high.

Thousands & thousands of OCers have gone on to run LLC enabled, & VTT "too high" without any damage to their systems, & shockingly, basically again, no one with dead CPUs.

I really wish people would actually read the articles & understand, instead of incorrectly interpreting the results.

My rant will go ignored, & FUD will continue to be flung around.

It's not that i don't believe there truth to these things, there absolutely is.

It's just the perspective is so completely overblown...

 

[lopri]

If the 5870 is only losing 1-2% now in 8x and 4-5% in 4x, I can't think that even a couple years from now a videocard losing much more than 5% in 8x. I mean 16x has been around for a while now and they still aren't fully taking advantage of it.

Shameless plug here. (my old sticky)

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=286944

Basically the PCI Express bandwidth difference shows when:

1) Game is CPU-memory bound
2) Video card has not enough memory

And neither is an ideal situation for gaming. No sane developers will attempt to use system RAM instead of dedicated video RAM, and if the card has not enough memory for a game the experience will be terrible regardless of FPS anyway.

 

[lothar]

I'm really moving closer and closer to the X58 side every day. All this P55 drama is exhausting. I'm not going to spend $500 on a CPU and board if I'm going to be worrying about it going up in smoke one day, especially since nobody's taking blame for it. I don't care if it's "only limited to overclocking" or not, it's stupid to pay that kind of money for an obviously flawed product, especially when most of these boards feature OC-friendly options. Factor in the lack of PCIe lanes for USB3/SATA3 and it's just hard to resist moving to X58.

Come on X58 refresh, lol.

Why would you need to wait for an X58 refresh when you can get one now and later buy ASUS's USB3/SATA3 add-on card for $30 if you need it?

I will make my decision sometime next week or so.
Chances of me getting a P55-UD3R/i7 860: 52%
Chances of me getting an ASRock X58 Extreme/i7 920: 38%
Chances of me getting a P55A-UD3R/i7 860: 10%

I normally would go Xeon, but Microcenter doesn't have any good Xeon selling for $199 or $229.

I would pay an extra $10-20 for a Xeon over a regular processor at the same clockspeeds but not almost $100!

 

[Derek Hanson]

What do you get out of the Xeons?

 

[Syran]

The 16 pcie lanes is because they are directly off the CPU, instead of being controlled by the north or south bridge.

From the i7/i5 Launch Article

The pink block to the right of the die is the PCIe controller, that's 16 PCIe 2.0 lanes coming right off the chip. Say hello to ultra low latency GPU communication. You'd think that Intel was about to enter the graphics market or something with a design like this.

 

[justinm]

What do you get out of the Xeons?

Some Xeons have a lower TDP then their Core counterparts.

 

[Interitus]

I really wish people would actually read the articles & understand, instead of incorrectly interpreting the results.

My rant will go ignored, & FUD will continue to be flung around.

It's not that i don't believe there truth to these things, there absolutely is.

It's just the perspective is so completely overblown...

Trust me I have read all the articles till I'm blue in the face because I planned on buying one of these motherboards and I'm not the type to make an uninformed purchase.

I'm not rich. i go to college full time, work only when I can (which isn't enough), and I don't have the money to blow on a new board/CPU should something like the burnouts happen to me. I'm not here preaching other people should avoid P55 like the plague. I'm simply posting my opinion. I was excited when I saw the socket change on the Gigabyte boards mainly because it was a means to possible peace of mind.

What bothers me the most about the whole issue surrounding the chipset isn't that something like this happened, it's that all the board vendors have stayed quiet. Not once have I heard anything about what may have caused it, what was being done about it. In fact all I have heard is that the people that have had issues have been left to dry with a burned board and CPU. If there was ANY kind of response on this, it would ease my conscience a truckload, and it wouldn't keep me from purchasing a P55 board. I think this is a BIG mistake on the part of the vendors. Even if the supposed rumor that some early revision sockets leaked out is true, TELL us that and let us move on.

I know that the problematic boards are few and far between, but the socket hasn't been out long enough to see if even those not OC'ing could see potential longevity issues, and that's what I'm worried about the most. I have seen reports of people even at stock speeds having burnout issues.

Even the burnout problem aside, the "drama" I spoke of was more concerned with the marketing BS for P55 and how everyone has to decode how many PCIe lanes they need, how much bandwidth their video cards need, dropping to x8 with the 333 boards, etc..

This is why I'm ready to just drop a dime on X58. There's less BS surrounding it and even with SLI there's plenty of PCIe to toss around.

Why would you need to wait for an X58 refresh when you can get one now and later buy ASUS's USB3/SATA3 add-on card for $30 if you need it?

Because I'm still not in buying position yet after some unexpected bills. I will probably purchase after Christmas or early in January. Even if I had the money, if I had the choice between the two, I'd prefer an onboard solution if possible.

 

[n7]

If you are tight for funds, why waste money on Intel?
s1156/s1366 isn't exactly something i'd be looking at if bang for buck if your primary concern.

AMD has terrific pricing on their motherboards & nice cheap overclockable quads.

As for all the board vendors staying quiet, that's no surprise.

In the all the years i've been into hardware, it's become pretty obvious motherboard manufacturers are entirely about that last penny, & will do everything & anything to get it.
Shady practises, terrible support, marketing BS to cover up reality, they all do it.
There isn't a single mobo manufacturer out there i really trust; they're all pretty dirty.