The first question to ask, is where did this notion come from that Pakistan was a US ally or an enemy?
After 911, the GWB needed a land route into Afghanistan. The list of options was short, either Pakistan or gasp Iran.
After taking a large bribe in military aid, the military dictator of Pakistan in Musharrif, leased to the USA a Pakistani land route into Afghanistan, and return the USA had agreed, they would confine any military actions to only Afghanistan. And the US also
promised to fix up Afghanistan in jig time, so the profitable Pakistani trade routes to the West and North permitted by the Taliban could be rapidly restored. And it was those very trade routes that explained why the ISI had formerly supported the Taliban.
But point being, there was never any alliance implied when the USA just leased a Pakistani road. And now that the USA has got the man they came for, its possible that Pakistan may terminate its lease, and say Nato go home. Because the whole Nato occupation of Afghanistan has had the net effect of badly destabilizing Pakistan.
In terms of the bulk of modern Pakistan falling under Al-Quida control, the point is and remains, the Taliban and Al-Quida message only sells in the remote and primitive Tribal areas of Pakistan. And at that, the Pakistani Tribal areas hold but a tiny fraction of the some 165 million population.
It has been widely reported that Dawood is also living in plain sight in a manion in Pakistan. Where did you read that he funded the building of the mansion and gave them a loan so the railways can continue to operate?
The compound in Abbottabad where Osama Bin Laden was killed was once used as a safe house by Pakistans premier intelligence agency ISI, Gulf News has learnt.
This area had been used as ISIs safe house, but it was not under their use any more because they keep on changing their locations, a senior intelligence official confided to Gulf News. However, he did not reveal when and for how long it was used by the ISI operatives. Another official cautiously said it may not be the same house but the same compound or area used by the ISI.
The official also confirmed that the house was rented out by Afghan nationals and is not owned by the government. The house is located just 800 metres away from the Pakistan Military Academy and some former senior military officials live nearby.
why the hell would he make himself stick out like a sore thumb by building the biggest home with 20 ft high walls in a known terrorist sanctuary?
dumb...
7 years ago, I got a warning from a mod coz I said OBL was in pakistan and that place has to be nuked. Finally good to see that I have been proved right.. woohoo
The first question to ask, is where did this notion come from that Pakistan was a US ally or an enemy?
After 911, the GWB needed a land route into Afghanistan. The list of options was short, either Pakistan or gasp Iran.
After taking a large bribe in military aid, the military dictator of Pakistan in Musharrif, leased to the USA a Pakistani land route into Afghanistan, and return the USA had agreed, they would confine any military actions to only Afghanistan. And the US also
promised to fix up Afghanistan in jig time, so the profitable Pakistani trade routes to the West and North permitted by the Taliban could be rapidly restored. And it was those very trade routes that explained why the ISI had formerly supported the Taliban.
But point being, there was never any alliance implied when the USA just leased a Pakistani road. And now that the USA has got the man they came for, its possible that Pakistan may terminate its lease, and say Nato go home. Because the whole Nato occupation of Afghanistan has had the net effect of badly destabilizing Pakistan.
In terms of the bulk of modern Pakistan falling under Al-Quida control, the point is and remains, the Taliban and Al-Quida message only sells in the remote and primitive Tribal areas of Pakistan. And at that, the Pakistani Tribal areas hold but a tiny fraction of the some 165 million population.
Also additional info. The house where UBL was spawn camp killed with a headshot was previously a ISI safe house. again it was previously a ISI official safe house. Investigations by Al Jazeera and Gulfnews reveal
http://amerpundit.com/2011/05/02/report-bin-ladens-compound-once-isi-safehouse/
i doubt you got warned for saying he is in pakistan, but probably for saying that pakistan needs to be nuked
The immediate post-announcement focus is rightly on celebrating the retribution shot directly into OBL's face by a Navy Seal.
However, let's also discuss what this means for the US and Pakistan. Obama's speech obviously pointed to the positive aspects regarding Pakistan, their cooperation and that the death benefited Pakistan too.
I am mostly wondering how the fuck Pakistani citizens and officials allowed OBL to hide himself from the US in a populated part of their country. I don't believe people are good at keeping secrets anywhere in the world. If OBL was living in a densely populated part of pakistan, that basically means thousands of people through the grape vine intentionally chose to aid and abet him in his hiding. Fuck them. I'd also like to know more about the involvement of the Pakistani intelligence in this operation. Maybe they can save some face if they actually were the main source of the intelligence that lead to the operation but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.
My gut is telling me "fuck Pakistan" and that we should start treating the country as an enemy and realign ourselves with India (who can't all be as extreme as our Baasha.) In the end it depends on how much the current Pakistani government is really helping us and the details of this operation will shed light on that. If they can't show that they were fully instrumental in killing Obama they need to be cast aside as enemies. I think it's pretty clear their population is at odds with the US but that's another story.
yup I know man..hahah, i hope when they find zawahari, mullah omar and Ilyas Kashmiri, they MOAB the shit out of these terrorist assholes and dont care abt the pakistani bases they live in/ next to.
Agreed here. Not an Obama fan but I have to give credit to him on this operation. Where he differed from Bush was in his approach to Pakistan. Bush kept giving them free military aid $$ hoping it would translate into good will. But the Pakistanis, ever the crafty type, took our money while factions of their ISI were leaking info to the terrorists.
No, its Wuliheron who totally does not get it. Pakistan is not the Hatfields and the McCoys, they are and remain totally united on their main threat to survival, and that threat of India.
LOL at the ISI claiming it was a "joint operation". Yeah, you hid him there, and we came in and killed him.
At the moment, we need Pakistan more that Pakistan needs us because it's so much more practical to bring logistics in by ship and Afghanistan has no sea access. Also, there are surely other high value targets in Pakistan that we want to kill. It will be interesting to see if Pakistan takes steps to purge the ISI or continues business as usual. If the latter, we need to wind down and get out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible. If the former, we need to wind down and get out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible.
I'm pretty sure that he didn't really care any more about his safety. He was a marked man (10 years ago) and knew he would meet his maker sooner rather than later.
He was comfortable in the "brothers" house in Pakistan.
I'm pretty sure there wasn't a big Government wide conspiracy to hide Obama in Pakistan (Countrywide conspiracy?) It's more like Lemon Law said; they really didn't spend much time thinking about Osama.
Sure some may have known - maybe even the "right people" knew, and had some big glorious plan to hide Obama... but odds are they didn't even have the slightest idea; or care.
-John
No, its Wuliheron who totally does not get it. Pakistan is not the Hatfields and the McCoys, they are and remain totally united on their main threat to survival, and that threat of India. Compared to that Indian threat, any US sympathy from Pakistan is merely a small side show hardly on any Pakistani radar. Normally any nation as large as 165 million is big nation status, but Pakistan is just a tiny midget compared to the Indian giant. And since Pakistan can do little to defuse the religious and ethnic tensions with India, the Pakistani priority was to secure alliances with the lands to the West, and that simply meant Afghanistan. And then that becomes the other Pakistan problem, an Afghanistan in perpetual anarchy is a wild card that can either be friend or foe.
Good points. We have historically supported their military, but I'm not sure how much power they now have relative to the ISI, or how pro-American the military remains. The ISI has been publicly slapped down a few times though - but then with Musharraf gone and several years of war next door . . .You ought to understand that it has been a question of whether the ISI would purge Pakistan. The ISI is run by some of the most dangerous people in the world and that's no exaggeration. They the major power in Pakistan. Consequently the civil government is in an awkward situation. If it's not careful then there is a good chance of a civil war resulting in a government with nuclear weapons that is supportive of Islamic extremists.
Given the choice of making a fuss and upsetting a very delicate balance of power with potential horrific consequences or putting up with the situation we went for the second and I agree. Make no mistake, getting Bin Laden is an awesome but not at the expense of people like him getting access to nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
No, its Wuliheron who totally does not get it. Pakistan is not the Hatfields and the McCoys, they are and remain totally united on their main threat to survival, and that threat of India. Compared to that Indian threat, any US sympathy from Pakistan is merely a small side show hardly on any Pakistani radar. Normally any nation as large as 165 million is big nation status, but Pakistan is just a tiny midget compared to the Indian giant. And since Pakistan can do little to defuse the religious and ethnic tensions with India, the Pakistani priority was to secure alliances with the lands to the West, and that simply meant Afghanistan. And then that becomes the other Pakistan problem, an Afghanistan in perpetual anarchy is a wild card that can either be friend or foe.
But first Pakistan had to watch in only horror as the Russians moved into Afghanistan in the late nineteen seventies. Not knowing if a Russian victory meant Pakistan was next. So Pakistan was willing to do its small bit as the USA armed Mujaheddin rebels. But once the Russian bear got its nose tweaked, the USA abandoned Afghanistan as it once again descended into the Pakistani joker of a State of anarchy. In short how could Pakistan feel marginally safer without knowing if Afghanistan would be a future friend or foe? And so it become Pakistani military policy to aid the rising force of the Taliban. All nations on earth including the USA make such deals with the devil everyday.
And for Pakistan it paid giant dividends as it opened up new Pakistan trade routes with nations to the West and North.
Then came 911 and the whole world changed. Only a damn fool thinks its every nation's obligation to suspend it long term foreign policy just because the US stubbed its toe.
But still the USA was able to bribe the very Musharrif whom is now out of power because he believed GWB bullshit.
It is not a Pakistani obligation to bail out Nato stupidity. Learn it and live it, as even I as a USA citizen am now thrilled that Ossma Bin Laden now sleeps with the fishes. But still sadly, much of the Nato damage has been in destabilizing Pakistan. Meaning other nations will learn the lesson, just say no to Uncle Sam, when he says he promises I only want to lease a road.
As I US citizen, I can only say its the greater danger we should be afraid of. After all, the USA can not claim to be the leader of the free world when even our allies refuse to follow our foolish leaders.
Do you understand what Government is? Hint; it's the "Government," the Army, and whatever this ISI you seem so proud of. That's the "Government" of Pakistan.Do you think the Government runs anything in Pakistan? It's the Army and by extension ISI and the top brass of both knew about this. Heck that mansion was an ISI constructed safe house for christs sake what more proof could you possibly want?
India and Pakistan have been at war ever since Pakistan broke from India.Looks line you need some History lessons. Pakistan has an existential threat from India? when did India EVER attacked Pakistan? it has always been the other way round. India also has a no-first use policy on Nuclear weapons. So I don't get where this paranoia comes from.
You seem to parroting the lines of Pakistan war-mongers who keep playing up the fears of India attacking Pakistan every time to deflect attention from the shit hole they have turned Pakistan into.
Do you understand what Government is? Hint; it's the "Government," the Army, and whatever this ISI you seem so proud of. That's the "Government" of Pakistan.
-John
Reading comprehension is definitely not your strong suit is it? I am Indian not Pakistani why the hell would I be proud of the ISI which is the Pakistani Intelligence agency.Do you understand what Government is? Hint; it's the "Government," the Army, and whatever this ISI you seem so proud of. That's the "Government" of Pakistan.
Which all means little shit to the rest of the world. The Government of Pakistan can fuck themselves all day and into Wednesday, for all we care.
And that's all they really seem capable of doing... is fucking themselves all day and into Wednesday.
To call them any sort of cohesive force, with cohesive thoughts and ideas... is giving them way too much credit. They are soly thugs.
-John
Never, and that is not even on the table.That's good outrage. Would you give Pakistan and its nukes over to Bin Laden's successor to satisfy it?