Pakistan and Osama Bin Laden

[Infohawk]

The immediate post-announcement focus is rightly on celebrating the retribution shot directly into OBL's face by a Navy Seal.

However, let's also discuss what this means for the US and Pakistan. Obama's speech obviously pointed to the positive aspects regarding Pakistan, their cooperation and that the death benefited Pakistan too.

I am mostly wondering how the fuck Pakistani citizens and officials allowed OBL to hide himself from the US in a populated part of their country. I don't believe people are good at keeping secrets anywhere in the world. If OBL was living in a densely populated part of pakistan, that basically means thousands of people through the grape vine intentionally chose to aid and abet him in his hiding. Fuck them. I'd also like to know more about the involvement of the Pakistani intelligence in this operation. Maybe they can save some face if they actually were the main source of the intelligence that lead to the operation but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.

My gut is telling me "fuck Pakistan" and that we should start treating the country as an enemy and realign ourselves with India (who can't all be as extreme as our Baasha.) In the end it depends on how much the current Pakistani government is really helping us and the details of this operation will shed light on that. If they can't show that they were fully instrumental in killing Obama they need to be cast aside as enemies. I think it's pretty clear their population is at odds with the US but that's another story.

 

[cirrrocco]

The compound was 700 mts from the Pak army academy, equivalent to America's premier west point.

ISI is filled with officers/ strategists from the army. it is not a separate organization. We know where the officers strategists get the training from [ The west point of Pakistan]

The mansion is on Kakul road, which is bang right next to the hospital, where intelligence believes he was being treated.

It is a garrison town and so the area is mostly populated by ex Pak army, curr pak army members. No way in hell army did not know UBL was living there.

Rumor is that home was build using funds by the D company, a smuggling terrorist gang handled by ISI. I mean pakistan is so fucking broke. that they had to take a loan from Dawood Ibrahim so that Pak railways can continue to operate. Dawood is the head of he D-company

 

[santz]

glad its over though, this will bring a sense of peace to all those directly and indirectly affected by 911.

 

[The Green Bean]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/161005/key-al-qaeda-operative-lived-in-abbottabad-in-2003/

According to Reuters, the location Osama bin Laden lived in was discovered in August 2010.
“When we saw the compound where the brothers lived, we were shocked by what we saw: an extraordinarily unique compound,” a senior administration official told Reuters.
“The bottom line of our collection and our analysis was that we had high confidence that the compound harboured a high-value terrorist target. The experts who worked this issue for years assessed that there was a strong probability that the terrorist who was hiding there was Osama bin Laden,” another administration official said.
The building, about eight times the size of other nearby houses, sat on a large plot of land that was relatively secluded when it was built in 2005. When it was constructed, it was on the outskirts of Abbotabad’s centre, at the end of a dirt road, but some other homes have been built nearby in the six years since it went up, officials said.
Intense security measures included 12- to 18-foot outer walls topped with barbed wire and internal walls that sectioned off different parts of the compound, officials said. Two security gates restricted access, and residents burned their trash, rather than leaving it for collection as did their neighbours, officials said.
Few windows of the three-story home faced the outside of the compound, and a terrace had a seven-foot privacy wall, officials said.
“It is also noteworthy that the property is valued at approximately $1 million but has no telephone or Internet service connected to it,” an administration official said. “The brothers had no explainable source of wealth.”
U.S. analysts realized that a third family lived there in addition to the two brothers, and the age and makeup of the third family matched those of the relatives – including his youngest wife – they believed would be living with Bin Laden.
“Everything we saw, the extremely elaborate operational security, the brothers’ background and their behaviour and the location of the compound itself was perfectly consistent with what our experts expected Bin Laden’s hide-out to look like,” another Obama administration official said.
A small US team conducted a helicopter raid on the compound on Sunday afternoon, officials said. After 40 minutes of fighting, Bin Laden and an adult son, one unidentified woman and two men – identified as the courier and his brother – were dead, officials said.

 

[wuliheron]

I am mostly wondering how the fuck Pakistani citizens and officials allowed OBL to hide himself from the US in a populated part of their country.

My gut is telling me "fuck Pakistan" and that we should start treating the country as an enemy and realign ourselves with India (who can't all be as extreme as our Baasha.)

None of these people like the US and you'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise. They don't like India either, but that doesn't mean India wants the US stirring up shit between them. You can bitch and grip about it all you want, but this is a case of keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Just leaving the place altogether would be another invitation to extremists like Osama to move in and start planning on raising hell. As it is now its a case of the Pakistani government wanting the US to deal with the assholes when they can't and otherwise leave the country alone, but we ignore them just like they often ignore us. What other head games we play with them is anyone's guess.

 

[Infohawk]

None of these people like the US and you'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise. They don't like India either, but that doesn't mean India wants the US stirring up shit between them. You can bitch and grip about it all you want, but this is a case of keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Just leaving the place altogether would be another invitation to extremists like Osama to move in and start planning on raising hell.

If being friends with Pakistan means continuing to disregard their sovereignty and launching strikes in their territory, I'm fine with being friends with them.

 

[Infohawk]

India says Pakistan 'a terror sanctuary'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257341

 

[Infohawk]

Suspicions grow over whether Pakistan aided Osama bin Laden
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bin-laden-pakistan-20110502,0,6166140.story

 

[Pocatello]

I'm sure the Saudis knew where Bin Laden was too. They had been secretly giving him money so he could live comfortably with the best health care available nearby, which was his undoing.

 

[crisscross]

Here you go. http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/05/02/bin-ladens-death-what-this-means-for-pakistans-isi/

Pakistan caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

 

[PokerGuy]

I find it difficult to believe that OBL was living in a million dollar compound in the middle of Pakistan and the ISI had no clue. No matter what the outcome, the ISI looks terrible: either they had no clue the world's most wanted man was living in a secretive million dollar compound right next to the hospital and military HQ, which would be embarrassing, or they did know and are active accomplices. Not good either way.

 

[cganesh75]

why is every terrorist that we have killed are captured happens to be in pakistan?

 

[spaceman]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9Pz8HUyOY...taQo8wzY/s400/Osama-bin-laden-body_killed.jpg

real or chopped?

 

[stag3]

lol that looks so fake

 

[Jaskalas]

The compound was 700 mts from the Pak army academy, equivalent to America's premier west point.

ISI is filled with officers/ strategists from the army. it is not a separate organization. We know where the officers strategists get the training from [ The west point of Pakistan]

The mansion is on Kakul road, which is bang right next to the hospital, where intelligence believes he was being treated.

It is a garrison town and so the area is mostly populated by ex Pak army, curr pak army members. No way in hell army did not know UBL was living there.

why is every terrorist that we have killed are captured happens to be in pakistan?

Question, does that authorize us to MOAB the town, the hospital, and/or its army outpost?

My answer is no. It's time to pack up, say f'u Pakistan, and let them work their own problems out. We've been involved with them too much as it is. Same goes for Afghanistan. Call it a day and get out of there.

Retaliation is not warranted or necessary and would only cost more lives and money.

 

[Josh]

The compound was 700 mts from the Pak army academy, equivalent to America's premier west point.

ISI is filled with officers/ strategists from the army. it is not a separate organization. We know where the officers strategists get the training from [ The west point of Pakistan]

The mansion is on Kakul road, which is bang right next to the hospital, where intelligence believes he was being treated.

It is a garrison town and so the area is mostly populated by ex Pak army, curr pak army members. No way in hell army did not know UBL was living there.

Rumor is that home was build using funds by the D company, a smuggling terrorist gang handled by ISI. I mean pakistan is so fucking broke. that they had to take a loan from Dawood Ibrahim so that Pak railways can continue to operate. Dawood is the head of he D-company

It has been widely reported that Dawood is also living in plain sight in a manion in Pakistan. Where did you read that he funded the building of the mansion and gave them a loan so the railways can continue to operate?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

At the very least we should stop all financial support of the beloved patriot military

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

why the hell would he make himself stick out like a sore thumb by building the biggest home with 20 ft high walls in a known terrorist sanctuary?
dumb...

 

[werepossum]

Suspicions grow over whether Pakistan aided Osama bin Laden
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bin-laden-pakistan-20110502,0,6166140.story

LOL at the ISI claiming it was a "joint operation". Yeah, you hid him there, and we came in and killed him.

At the moment, we need Pakistan more that Pakistan needs us because it's so much more practical to bring logistics in by ship and Afghanistan has no sea access. Also, there are surely other high value targets in Pakistan that we want to kill. It will be interesting to see if Pakistan takes steps to purge the ISI or continues business as usual. If the latter, we need to wind down and get out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible. If the former, we need to wind down and get out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible.

 

[nick1985]

why is every terrorist that we have killed are captured happens to be in pakistan?

Because Pakistan is a shithole

 

[brencat]

I am mostly wondering how the fuck Pakistani citizens and officials allowed OBL to hide himself from the US in a populated part of their country. If OBL was living in a densely populated part of pakistan, that basically means thousands of people through the grape vine intentionally chose to aid and abet him in his hiding. Fuck them.

My gut is telling me that we should start treating the country as an enemy and realign ourselves with India (who can't all be as extreme as our Baasha.) In the end it depends on how much the current Pakistani government is really helping us and the details of this operation will shed light on that. If they can't show that they were fully instrumental in killing Obama they need to be cast aside as enemies.

Agreed here. Not an Obama fan but I have to give credit to him on this operation. Where he differed from Bush was in his approach to Pakistan. Bush kept giving them free military aid $$ hoping it would translate into good will. But the Pakistanis, ever the crafty type, took our money while factions of their ISI were leaking info to the terrorists.

At least Obama took the hard line stance with them and said 'Hey, no more bullshit. We are going after terrorists with or without your help' as can be seen by the major escalation of drone strikes. Obama rightfully recognized that Pakistan or parts of their govt or military were likely aiding and abetting the enemy and he took a different approach.

And I love how top secret this op was and the fact that it was an all-American led strike right in the heart of Pakistan too! A big FU to that country and its security services. Now they not only look bad, but look complicit in hiding him this long.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

At least Obama took the hard line stance with them and said 'Hey, no more bullshit. We are going after terrorists with or without your help' as can be seen by the major escalation of drone strikes. Obama rightfully recognized that Pakistan or parts of their govt or military were likely aiding and abetting the enemy and he took a different approach.

Interesting that a 'terrorism softie' like Obama got bin Laden by being less willing to work with 'allies' and more aggressive than Bush ever was, wrt this specific situation at least.

 

[Lemon law]

The first question to ask, is where did this notion come from that Pakistan was a US ally or an enemy?

After 911, the GWB needed a land route into Afghanistan. The list of options was short, either Pakistan or gasp Iran.

After taking a large bribe in military aid, the military dictator of Pakistan in Musharrif, leased to the USA a Pakistani land route into Afghanistan, and return the USA had agreed, they would confine any military actions to only Afghanistan. And the US also
promised to fix up Afghanistan in jig time, so the profitable Pakistani trade routes to the West and North permitted by the Taliban could be rapidly restored. And it was those very trade routes that explained why the ISI had formerly supported the Taliban.

But point being, there was never any alliance implied when the USA just leased a Pakistani road. And now that the USA has got the man they came for, its possible that Pakistan may terminate its lease, and say Nato go home. Because the whole Nato occupation of Afghanistan has had the net effect of badly destabilizing Pakistan.

In terms of the bulk of modern Pakistan falling under Al-Quida control, the point is and remains, the Taliban and Al-Quida message only sells in the remote and primitive Tribal areas of Pakistan. And at that, the Pakistani Tribal areas hold but a tiny fraction of the some 165 million population.

 

[nick1985]

Agreed that this is a big black eye for Pakistan.

 

[cganesh75]

war on terror should start and end in pakistan..