PC won't boot... PSU?

[IPvFletch]

Ok you guys helped me last time when I had a bad DIMM so bring it on again.. I need your help and this is the only forum in all of the Internet (and believe me, I know forums - active on about 12 different right now, fyi) that will be able to help me, of this I am certain.

Scenario: PC has been running for a little over a year. Windows XP with Intel Quad Core 3.0GHz processor, 2GB RAM, XFX 8800GTS video, Rosewill PSU, and a Gigabyte motherboard. Last night after some minor gaming (ETQW) and waiting for a download, I pushed hibernate. Sometimes this works, sometimes it comes back on in the middle of the night for no reason. Actually, USUALLY it comes back on from hibernate (off) in the middle of the night for no reason. Don't know if it's wake on LAN or something else but I don't think it is a big deal as it usually happened. This morning I woke up and pushed the power button to wake it up like I always do. The little HD LED usually goes GRN for a sec but this time went BLUE. No idea what that means nor is there any kind of manual for my case (cheapie Fry's case). Anyways, I knew this would be the first sign of my morning horror. This has happened before and usually with the right sequence of buttons and PSU resets, I can get it to boot. It happend last a few months ago when I was still suffering through Vista64 (before I wised up and went back to XP 32).

Symptom: PC doesn't post. No CMOS/BIOS, no beep like usual. No video, just fans (PSU, Case, and CPU all working) and I believe HDs spin up (hard to tell, uber quiet SATAs). I tried yanking my 2 DIMMs, didn't help. I tried offing the PSU and unplugging everything and re-plugging it, still no dice. I removed the CMOS battery, still nothing.

When I press the power button, it seems all it does it boots up, then after like 4s it shuts off, then after like 2s it boots up again and nothing happens, no post, just fans. It stays like this indefinitely.

If I press RST switch, it goes off after about 4s, then comes back on after about 2s also. Still nothing.

If I press both buttons together (hey I'm desperate), still it functions as if I just pressed one.

I tried letting the PSU sit unplugged for a while - even tried to power on the PC to make sure the PSU gets fully drained and the mobo capacitors, if any, get fully drained. Clearly it flashes lights for a half second and then dims out to nothing, then doesn't work again, so I know there's no remaining "juice" in the system.

I'm not sure how to proceed from here... No beeps, no post, no nothing but fans.

I feel like my PSU is somehow confused about the Suspend-to-Ram (S3R) option my BIOS put it into and it just needs to be told "BOOT DAMNIT" but I can't speak PSU language..

ANY IDEAS????



Until I get this working, I'm "working mobile" today on my iPhone... @wheeeee!!!

 

[mpilchfamily]

The PSu is likely dead. Rosewill is known for there poor quality PSU. Your lucky it lasted you a year.

Look into a good quality PSU like an antec EarthWatts or Corsair in the 400W range or higher.

 

[IPvFletch]

Dang, you think? I mean it seems like it works. No odd smell (I have fried a few PSUs in my days).

Can I test it some how with a volt meter? Or maybe Fry's would? *yikes*

What specifically makes you think it is dead/not working?

I'm not opposed to buying a new one and testing it out - if it works, I'll be very happy, and if not, I can just return it... I HOPE you're right as the motherboard and CPU cost way more $$$$ than a friggin PSU is..

It seems it can power the fans and HDs and my motherboard shows Ethernet light coming on...



I've unplugged everything but the fans and the wires from the back side (4xusb, sound, hdmi) and still it won't boot.

I didn't try w/out a video card but I did try w/out memory a few times. No dice.

Man I can't believe Rosewill is a poor brand. I think I paid $100 for that 600W PSU and it came in the most pimped out box and weighed a ton, so I figured it was good quality. Guess I was wrong.

I will hit up Fry's today and try to find a Corsair or Earthwatts...

Any other thoughts/ideas?

 

[jdjbuffalo]

I agree with mpilchfamily, it's likely a dead PSU. If you get it from a local store like Fry's then even if it's not the power supply you can easily return it. Just be happy the power supply didn't take out several of your components when it went. That's no fun...

 

[IPvFletch]

Alright I almost went to Fry's just now but remembered I bought another PSU a long time ago and have it for a linux server I was planning to build but still haven't. The PSU works for sure, I just tested it.

So I went and swapped the PSU in and it did the same thing. It powered the mobo and system fans, the psu fan powered up, the ethernet port lit up, and the HD/PWR LEDs lit up, but nothing happened. After 4s, it powered down, then after 2s it powered back up again. Same deal.

So now I'm thinking MOTHERBOARD...

I just PRAY it is not my $1000 Intel QX6750 quad core CPU.... (I didn't pay $1000 but I got it via an employee discount from a friend for $450)...



Any ideas on how to verify if it is the motherboard? Should I bring it to Fry's and have them test it or not worth the trouble (can't really trust/rely on Fry's employees to makes heads or tails of anything)... and if it isn't the mobo, then surely taking it to Fry's or Geek Squad or some other test shop will likely break it on the way there or back anyways.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Don't bother bringing it to Fry's or anywhere else. It's it wasn't the PSU, the motherboard is next up. The only thing you can do is bring it to minimum config and starting changing components. Based on what you've done, it sounds like you've been thorough.

Just buy a new board(and a quality PSU if you can :thumbsup: ), it will cost you 2x as much if you have somebody at a store do what you've already done..

 

[betasub]

Hmm, it doesn't sound like that old PSU packs much juice. Does it push enough on the 12V rail and have all the correct connectors to drive that power-hungry system?

 

[IPvFletch]

Well the "old" PSU is brand new, it is just not as nice and wasn't as pricey as the Rosewill.

It is 450W which is still nice...

It has all of the connectors for the new style motherboards, like the separate 12v rails for the CPU and for the PCI-X video card.

I think 450W is plenty considering no other peripherals were powered. All I'm doing is trying to get to POST, so I doubt even 200W wouldn't be enough.. *shrug*

I guess the motherboard is the likely next possibility, but I keep thinking still somehow it is just the power switch or something silly like that - or maybe the motherboard thinks it is still in suspend-to-ram mode and asleep.. *shrug*

I won't take the PC anyways, I just meant to test something like a power supply or motherboard. I surely wouldn't pay someone to install a motherboard for me.

Should I be able to POST w/out memory? What if both of my DIMMs went bad this time around? I don't think I have working DIMMs to test with, so let me know if I should still be able to POST w/out memory if I should get beeps or something..

Any other ideas???

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: IPvFletch
Well the "old" PSU is brand new, it is just not as nice and wasn't as pricey as the Rosewill.

It is 450W which is still nice...

It has all of the connectors for the new style motherboards, like the separate 12v rails for the CPU and for the PCI-X video card.

I think 450W is plenty considering no other peripherals were powered. All I'm doing is trying to get to POST, so I doubt even 200W wouldn't be enough.. *shrug*

I guess the motherboard is the likely next possibility, but I keep thinking still somehow it is just the power switch or something silly like that - or maybe the motherboard thinks it is still in suspend-to-ram mode and asleep.. *shrug*

I won't take the PC anyways, I just meant to test something like a power supply or motherboard. I surely wouldn't pay someone to install a motherboard for me.

Should I be able to POST w/out memory? What if both of my DIMMs went bad this time around? I don't think I have working DIMMs to test with, so let me know if I should still be able to POST w/out memory if I should get beeps or something..

Any other ideas???

When you pull both DIMMs the motherboard will return POST errors. Same goes for VGA. Make sure it has a speaker connected, if you don't hear beeps that indicates an issue with the motherboard.

If that PSU wasn't as "pricey" as the Rosewill, then it's a POS. Buy a real PSU!

 

[0roo0roo]

err bios doesn't communicate with the psu. psu simply delivers what power is demanded by devices. bad psu either doesn't power anything at all, or it causes crash auto reboot cycles. the only thing the psu does is power the "power good line" as good if the psu can meet demand. if the mb sees this line go off then it reboots as safety.
there are psu testers, or you could just short the psu on pins with a small load like fans and see if it powers them. its not likely to be the psu if the fans turn on.

leaving vga out is ok if there is integrated graphics on the board..which is nice for trouble shooting. lets you use an older psu to trouble shoot. that being said its most likely your mother board as said.

 

[IPvFletch]

Yeah I think at this point it is either:

- All of my DIMMs are dead (unlikely)
- My motherboard is dead/hosed (hopefully)
- My CPU is hosed (hopefully NOT!!)

How do I know my CPU is OK (other than just testing it in a similar socket motherboard)?

I will re-iterate, the first time I power it on after it's been off a while, it powers up for about 4s, where it should be about to POST and then it shuts off for about 2s, then it powers back on indefinitely and never POSTs.

Pressing RST is working like I'm holding PWR for 4s, then waiting 2s, then powering back on like above. Usually RST is instantaneous, right? Hrmmmmm....

 

[IPvFletch]

Which is better for all-around use: Asus P5QC or Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R?

 

[ch33zw1z]

It's very much more likely that you mobo is done, rather than your CPU. Relax. BTW, the Asus P5QC takes DDR3, so the GA-EP45-DS3R is your best bet(assuming you have DDR2), it's deactivated on Newegg though. I recommend either one of those brands, however. I'm an Asus guy

 

[IPvFletch]

I thought the Asus took both, my bad. ok then the Gigabyte it is... (that is what I have now, older model tho).

I like the idea it can support DDR2 and DDR3 - cuz I plan to go DDR3 one day (soon?) but right now Intel tells me the DDR3 latency is SO HIGH that DDR2 in effect is faster for memory access.. so there's no point (yet).

But of course I dislike the idea of buying a new $100ish motherboard here less than a year after I bought my current (toasted?) one..



....


ps. Did I mention ?

 

[IPvFletch]

I just tried something different and got some interesting results...

I found my old thread here last time I had a catastrophe, whereby my DIMMS I think got cooked, at least one of them did, or maybe it was just a faulty DIMM, who knows.. But I had forgot to plug back in my 12v mini-pci power plug to my video card.

So I tried it again just now and my computer just beeps/whines indefinitely. It still doesn't boot/post but it beeps constantly now - of course until I turn it off.

So I don't know where this beep is coming from - motherboard internal speaker or the video card itself.. *shrug*

Does this help narrow anything down??

Also I found an old DIMM I had which I believe to be known-working, and tried it in place of my two existing DIMMS - nothing, not even on the 2nd or 3rd DIMM slots.

So I guess I'm still at "broken motherboard".

oh and just once more for good measure...

 

[ch33zw1z]

That beep you hear is probably a POST error. Keep playing with it, try 1 thing at a time. If you can't get it to complete POST (ie, single beep = good) Then a new mobo is probably in order. It could be bad memory, but you'd have to have a known good working DIMM to test with. Good find on the unplugged VGA power, it's good to double check everything.

I'm not up to date on the what's what in mobo's, but a quick newegg search returned this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131299 Remember, you can possibly RMA your board anyways. Find out, could offset the costs if you can sell the replacement

Regarding DDR3, by the time you want to upgrade to that it will be time to swap out all your main parts. If I were you, I would just get something to replace what you have and plan the move to DDR3 with your next overhaul when it will be much cheaper.

 

[IPvFletch]

UPDATE........

I got back from Fry's last night with a new DIMM of DDR2 (on sale for $20) and a new motherboard (ASUS P5Q-EM).

It turns out the new DIMM didn't fix it. Neither did an old DDR2 DIMM I had lying around..

*sigh*

So I swapped in the new motherboard (ok, it's a little bit more involved than "swapped" but I'm trying to be brief )....

And the new motherboard didn't work with the old memory.

BUT IT WORKED WITH THE NEW.

So, in summary, it was a dead motherboard (or at least the DIMM sockets) and dead DIMMs.

So somehow in the course of me pressing hibernate on Sunday night, I fried two memory DIMMS and my motherboard. None of them had any signs of burning/melting transistors, so it must be more internal or non-visible (to my naked eyes).

So now I blame Microsoft. The last time this happened to me I thought it was due to me using the wrong BIOS settings and accidentally overclocking my memory. I now think that was not the case and instead somehow Microsoft Windows XP Hibernate killed my hardware...

 

[ch33zw1z]

Maybe it's the shitty PSU that's frying your stuff?

 

[IPvFletch]

You really think so?

No offense but that is kind of shallow and naive to say/believe. It is one thing to buy the best parts because the market tells you to, but it is another to believe the cheapest parts are always the culprit. That is like saying people who drive a Hyundai have more accidents than those who drive BMWs. There is little to no correlation there.

For that matter, you could blame my shitty discount (Crucial Ballistix) memory too, right? Or maybe my Gigabyte board was shitty and that is the underlying problem?

*rolleyes*

Anyways, you do make a good point that it is possible, and I do appreciate all of your feedback thus far... But I'm sure statistics and horror stories will tell us that any power supply, regardless of price or rave reviews, could fry just as many motherboards - ESPECIALLY since its the (again shitty) Microsoft software which is controlling all of this.

I have had far cheaper/shittier PSUs in my days and never has this happened before. I've fried a PSU or two now, but that's a different story and usually is due to me messing with powering it on/off too quickly numerous times in a row.

Anyways, back on topic - both times this happened, my PC was dumping memory to disk (hibernation). So it makes sense that the memory is being accessed far more abrasively than normal daily PC use. So I'm thinking it is getting too hot. I have no way to test my memory's heat.

The new Asus board has this nice feature in the bios and in software (Asus ProbeII) to let you see the heat of the board, cpu, and also fanspeeds -- but I can't get the software to run in windows XP for some silly reason (tried 4 versions). So I have to go into the BIOS to check and that is not quite that convenient as you might have guessed.

Now what did I do with that R/C heat measuring gun..

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: IPvFletch
So now I blame Microsoft. The last time this happened to me I thought it was due to me using the wrong BIOS settings and accidentally overclocking my memory. I now think that was not the case and instead somehow Microsoft Windows XP Hibernate killed my hardware...

LOL!

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: IPvFletch
You really think so?

No offense but that is kind of shallow and naive to say/believe. It is one thing to buy the best parts because the market tells you to, but it is another to believe the cheapest parts are always the culprit. That is like saying people who drive a Hyundai have more accidents than those who drive BMWs. There is little to no correlation there.

For that matter, you could blame my shitty discount (Crucial Ballistix) memory too, right? Or maybe my Gigabyte board was shitty and that is the underlying problem?

*rolleyes*

Anyways, you do make a good point that it is possible, and I do appreciate all of your feedback thus far... But I'm sure statistics and horror stories will tell us that any power supply, regardless of price or rave reviews, could fry just as many motherboards - ESPECIALLY since its the (again shitty) Microsoft software which is controlling all of this.

I have had far cheaper/shittier PSUs in my days and never has this happened before. I've fried a PSU or two now, but that's a different story and usually is due to me messing with powering it on/off too quickly numerous times in a row.

Anyways, back on topic - both times this happened, my PC was dumping memory to disk (hibernation). So it makes sense that the memory is being accessed far more abrasively than normal daily PC use. So I'm thinking it is getting too hot. I have no way to test my memory's heat.

The new Asus board has this nice feature in the bios and in software (Asus ProbeII) to let you see the heat of the board, cpu, and also fanspeeds -- but I can't get the software to run in windows XP for some silly reason (tried 4 versions). So I have to go into the BIOS to check and that is not quite that convenient as you might have guessed.


Now what did I do with that R/C heat measuring gun..

It's neither shallow nor naive of me to say that. Not all PSU's, or computer components for that matter, are created equal. It's naive of you to not believe that. Sure it could be your RAM or mobo causing the whole mess, or it could be PEBKAC. Who knows for sure other than you, because you're physically standing at the machine. How can you put so much faith in a PSU from a company who's not known for the quality of their PSUs? I've seen more odd problems caused by poor power either from the outlet or from the PSU that I don't rule anything out...because that's not realistic.

As far as Crucial being shitty..I'll just say that I've had 2 sets of 2x512 Ballistix DDR-400, and 2 sets of 2x1GB Ballistix DDR2-800 for my last two rigs. Both have run superb, and I haven't had to RMA a stick from any of it *knock on wood*.

As far as Giga-byte being shitty..I've had a few boards from them in the past and didn't have any problems caused by the board itself.

Enjoy the new parts :thumbsup:

 

[jae]

People actually use Hibernate??? Why not use standby or just leave your PC on? You can blame M$ but you realize you have the option of changing what your power button does?