[PCPER] NVidia G-sync

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Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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Hardware PhysX requires one video card to display the graphics as usual and a second card to do the PhysX calculations. Nvidia now requires that both cards be their own even though it's been proven that it will work with an AMD card as the display adapter with an Nvidia card acting as the PhysX processor.

http://techreport.com/news/17693/nvidia-disables-hardware-physx-for-geforce-radeon-tandems

PhysX does not require a dedicated PhysX card. It does improve performance, but many games allow advanced PhysX on a single card. In the case of having a single Nvidia card, you can still use GPU accelerated PhysX. The two card situation is only with an AMD primary card, because PhysX doesn't work on their cards.
 
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Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
13
81
PhysX does not require a dedicated PhysX card. It does improve performance, but many games allow advanced PhysX on a single card. In the case of having a single Nvidia card, you can still use GPU accelerated PhysX. The two card situation is only with an AMD primary card, because PhysX doesn't work on their cards.
I learned something new today.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
So I learned that this card can basically just plug and play on a monitor, however he says its up to the manufacture if they want to sell the card itself. Most likely they will just sell new monitors with it.

Kinda of sad for those who have new 144hz monitors within the last couple months. Lets hope some sell the module themselves.

It also remove HDMI/DVI function from monitor, just display port is active.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I learned something new today.

To expand...when running sli both cards do rendering but one, and you can choose which one, will also process physx. Or you can choose to turn off sli and dedicate one card for physx only.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
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So watching the pcper.com livecast with Tom Person from NVidia there were a few interesting things coming out on this.

) 3D works
) SLI works
) They were evasive on licencing which was disappointing.
) There are 4 modes, the default gsync, 3d vision, a low persistence mode using a fixed refresh but very high refresh and a 4th one like lightboost but a lot better.

PS he also said the 780 ti is Nvidia's new high end. Which was a bit of a slip.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
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I guess that lays to rest the idea of it being locked.

It does not make it clear if there is specific hardware required within the video card. It kind of sounds like it may, though it may be something that many AMD cards have as well.

Sounds like all it requires is DP.

Seems like a great feature. I hate screen tearing and use vsync all of the time. Variable vsync (GSync) sounds terrific. Price is high for the hardware for a single feature, but it's not surprising if nVidia is the only one supplying it.
 

Leadbox

Senior member
Oct 25, 2010
744
63
91
So of that 65% market share we keep hearing about, how many a rocking a 650ti kepler or better graphics card?
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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So of that 65% market share we keep hearing about, how many a rocking a 650ti kepler or better graphics card?

Single digit %'s, I'd imagine. If all it requires is DP imagine how many more monitors the companies could sell if they allowed all DP out video connections to work. I actually would be quite surprised if the monitor manufacturers would go along with a hardware lockout.
 

Teizo

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2010
1,271
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91
PS he also said the 780 ti is Nvidia's new high end. Which was a bit of a slip.

I didn't see the whole thing, but I seriously doubt that was a slip. He was pretty on point when they tried to steer him into answering questions about the different manufacturers looking to join in with the four already. He probably made it seem like a slip to garner speculation.
 

Braxos

Member
May 24, 2013
126
0
76
780ti fastest gaming card.

Titan was not as a gaming card on the market.

Fastest NVIDIA gaming card.

Playing with words and ppl listening half of them.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
He also suggested strongly the gsync module does a lot more than just supporting gsync. With 768MB onboard it certainly doesn't need all that RAM purely for controlling the LCD but he wasn't willing to say more about what it could do.

The discussion of draw rate was interesting - he was suggesting its at the panel refresh rate which in the event they had was set at 60hz. So I guess in theory on a 120hz monitor you'll get an 8ms draw rate all the time regardless of the frame rate, that has some benefits as well.

The high speed 2400 fps captures of vsync on (triple buffered) and off showed how bad vsync is when the panel isn't precisely matched. If you want to experience a gsync like experience you need to be running vsync on with the game frame rate matching 60 perfectly.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
780ti fastest gaming card.

Titan was not as a gaming card on the market.

Fastest NVIDIA gaming card.

Playing with words and ppl listening half of them.
I am so sick of a hand full of people saying that.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
The high speed 2400 fps captures of vsync on (triple buffered) and off showed how bad vsync is when the panel isn't precisely matched. If you want to experience a gsync like experience you need to be running vsync on with the game frame rate matching 60 perfectly.

I wouldn't go that far. There is still a measurable variance far in excess of a single card in a lot of cases. Sometimes its out done by the increase in frame rate and sometimes it isn't. But its not universally true that microstutter is just gone, because it isn't. Its mostly down at a level where its unnoticeable on the latest nvidia cards and games.

It is not the best way to explain the benefits of nvidia tech gives to user experience. From the science point of view it all makes perfect sense. But if we go back to the very roots - user experience, it doesn't.
I'm not saying it is wrong and pointless.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
He also suggested strongly the gsync module does a lot more than just supporting gsync. With 768MB onboard it certainly doesn't need all that RAM purely for controlling the LCD but he wasn't willing to say more about what it could do.

The discussion of draw rate was interesting - he was suggesting its at the panel refresh rate which in the event they had was set at 60hz. So I guess in theory on a 120hz monitor you'll get an 8ms draw rate all the time regardless of the frame rate, that has some benefits as well.

The high speed 2400 fps captures of vsync on (triple buffered) and off showed how bad vsync is when the panel isn't precisely matched. If you want to experience a gsync like experience you need to be running vsync on with the game frame rate matching 60 perfectly.

Yeah seems to me like nvidia would want to sell as many of these as they can and get it adopted into as many monitors as it can. It could be huge as long as nvidia isn't stupid about it.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Single digit %'s, I'd imagine. If all it requires is DP imagine how many more monitors the companies could sell if they allowed all DP out video connections to work. I actually would be quite surprised if the monitor manufacturers would go along with a hardware lockout.

Unless there is something else that needs to be in place for it to even work.
 

Gryz

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2010
1,551
204
106
Did he mention triple-buffering ? Not once did I hear him mention it. It would be nice to hear him explain why nVidia doesn't implement a forced triple-buffering option for d3d in their driver settings. Or why they don't encourage more developers to include triple-bufering in their games.

He also claimed that running at higher framerates (or: shorter frame durations) would help reducing motion-blur almost completely. From what I've seen, that isn't true. Running at 120Hz gives slightly less motion-blur than running at 60Hz. But to really reduce it to a minimum, you need the strobelight-function.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Did he mention triple-buffering ? Not once did I hear him mention it. It would be nice to hear him explain why nVidia doesn't implement a forced triple-buffering option for d3d in their driver settings. Or why they don't encourage more developers to include triple-bufering in their games.

He also claimed that running at higher framerates (or: shorter frame durations) would help reducing motion-blur almost completely. From what I've seen, that isn't true. Running at 120Hz gives slightly less motion-blur than running at 60Hz. But to really reduce it to a minimum, you need the strobelight-function.

I believe I read something long ago about DirectX allowing games to enable triple buffering and disallowing it to be forced at the driver level. I can find no articles or forum links that say one way or the other. I could be incorrect in my wording or understanding.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
Triple buffering and how it works isn't really gsync related. He very clearly showed at high speed why even triple buffered vsync on at 45 fps is not smooth motion. That is because at some point you have to show a double frame, so its going to come in 3 frames then a gap on average. (1/4 of all frames must be twice as long at 60hz). So triple buffering isn't the solution.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
I'm not in the market for buying a new monitor for a long time, so this is not a selling point for me in the near term. It will be interesting to see what kind of market presence this has in, say, 3+ years when I may be in the market for a new monitor again.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Did he mention triple-buffering ? Not once did I hear him mention it. It would be nice to hear him explain why nVidia doesn't implement a forced triple-buffering option for d3d in their driver settings. Or why they don't encourage more developers to include triple-bufering in their games.

He also claimed that running at higher framerates (or: shorter frame durations) would help reducing motion-blur almost completely. From what I've seen, that isn't true. Running at 120Hz gives slightly less motion-blur than running at 60Hz. But to really reduce it to a minimum, you need the strobelight-function.

With this new Gsync, you won't likely want triple buffering. Triple buffering is a technique to help performance when working with a fixed refresh rate. Without a fixed refresh rate, it is no longer desirable.
 
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