Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
Havok GPU support is coming to AMD/ATI, when Intel and AMD are ready.
There is no AMD/ATI Havok support. None. There is "talk" but no real solution.
Bottle line if you want actual GPU physics, NVIDIA is the only way to go.
Considering ATI has no price+performance advantage anymore there is no reason to recommend their cards until they do actually support physics.
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
and we KNOW intel and MS are ALSO thinking Nvidia is backing a 3-hit wonder
- if THEY have anything to say about it
Nvidia has MS + AMD + intel working on Havok as a counter to PhysX
PhysX' future is no more assured than it was with Ageia
The PhysC guys sure talk the talk ..
where's the beef?
Warmonger?
RotFL
Originally posted by: cm123
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
Havok GPU support is coming to AMD/ATI, when Intel and AMD are ready.
There is no AMD/ATI Havok support. None. There is "talk" but no real solution.
Bottle line if you want actual GPU physics, NVIDIA is the only way to go.
Considering ATI has no price+performance advantage anymore there is no reason to recommend their cards until they do actually support physics.
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
and we KNOW intel and MS are ALSO thinking Nvidia is backing a 3-hit wonder
- if THEY have anything to say about it
Nvidia has MS + AMD + intel working on Havok as a counter to PhysX
PhysX' future is no more assured than it was with Ageia
The PhysC guys sure talk the talk ..
where's the beef?
Warmonger?
RotFL
even though - if physX is what it is, already is add-in cards from nvidia/ageia that work aith ATI Cards - I thought more game/software companies already supported Havok than any other, hence Havok being the company Intel wanted to buy so badly (and did)?
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: cm123
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
Havok GPU support is coming to AMD/ATI, when Intel and AMD are ready.
There is no AMD/ATI Havok support. None. There is "talk" but no real solution.
Bottle line if you want actual GPU physics, NVIDIA is the only way to go.
Considering ATI has no price+performance advantage anymore there is no reason to recommend their cards until they do actually support physics.
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
and we KNOW intel and MS are ALSO thinking Nvidia is backing a 3-hit wonder
- if THEY have anything to say about it
Nvidia has MS + AMD + intel working on Havok as a counter to PhysX
PhysX' future is no more assured than it was with Ageia
The PhysC guys sure talk the talk ..
where's the beef?
Warmonger?
RotFL
even though - if physX is what it is, already is add-in cards from nvidia/ageia that work aith ATI Cards - I thought more game/software companies already supported Havok than any other, hence Havok being the company Intel wanted to buy so badly (and did)?
Sure .. you can still buy one
ask the guys who have them what they think
:roll:
generally "not much" is the impression i get
Underwhelming
so .. we are talking future tech ...
remember, even though Sony's BetaMax was better [and first, i think], it got blown away by the inferior VHS format
it is hard to predict success for PhysX when AMD + intel + MS are supporting Havok just to COUNTER Nvidia
it's political and whoever has the deepest pockets, best PR, BS and Marketing .. wins
no one can say for sure now
- and i say it doesn't matter for about another year .. when the trend will be clear
i am hoping for a compromise .. where they are all adopted cross-platform without restrictions .. . . . along with world peace and an end to the threat of global warming
Originally posted by: Piuc2020
PhysX is an open platform and I don't think NVIDIA has anything against porting PhysX to ATI, it seems AMD is the stubborn one.
PhysX won't grow past the insignificant eye-candy level until ATI is on board, no developer will want to alienate such a big part of the userbase considering it's growing even more with the popularity of HD 48xx cards.
I'm very excited about PhysX but AMD needs to have it ported to their cards, otherwise it will never take off in a significant way.
Originally posted by: cm123
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: cm123
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
Havok GPU support is coming to AMD/ATI, when Intel and AMD are ready.
There is no AMD/ATI Havok support. None. There is "talk" but no real solution.
Bottle line if you want actual GPU physics, NVIDIA is the only way to go.
Considering ATI has no price+performance advantage anymore there is no reason to recommend their cards until they do actually support physics.
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
and we KNOW intel and MS are ALSO thinking Nvidia is backing a 3-hit wonder
- if THEY have anything to say about it
Nvidia has MS + AMD + intel working on Havok as a counter to PhysX
PhysX' future is no more assured than it was with Ageia
The PhysC guys sure talk the talk ..
where's the beef?
Warmonger?
RotFL
even though - if physX is what it is, already is add-in cards from nvidia/ageia that work aith ATI Cards - I thought more game/software companies already supported Havok than any other, hence Havok being the company Intel wanted to buy so badly (and did)?
Sure .. you can still buy one
ask the guys who have them what they think
:roll:
generally "not much" is the impression i get
Underwhelming
so .. we are talking future tech ...
remember, even though Sony's BetaMax was better [and first, i think], it got blown away by the inferior VHS format
it is hard to predict success for PhysX when AMD + intel + MS are supporting Havok just to COUNTER Nvidia
it's political and whoever has the deepest pockets, best PR, BS and Marketing .. wins
no one can say for sure now
- and i say it doesn't matter for about another year .. when the trend will be clear
i am hoping for a compromise .. where they are all adopted cross-platform without restrictions .. . . . along with world peace and an end to the threat of global warming
why do i need to ask another person who has add-in physX card? I have one myself - that's the question hohyss asked, any chance with ati can take advantage of physX - yes actually can today...
...as in my early post though, really is not that many games and yes I saw the list from nvidia, does no good though if the games no play are there - lets be honest, to buy a card today just for what might be coming in 2 or 3 years, heck even next year, things change so much, add to that, we are but 1 year off from seeing yet another new windows (windows 7) - good chance that will bring in whole new standard and like some are saying, could see dx11 have physX standard (all guess work for now)...
can have physx and ati card though - still trying to find the link where I saw havok have more game support already than physx - so that war is by far over....
nRollo has got to be looking into this post, with nvidia looking into x86 cpu business, is that in very small if that havok should or looks to win, nvidia will have a cpu market (I know many other reasons too) as well for the software physic(s) to run on? so gets video cards and chipsets, how about them shiny new nvidia cpu's - marketing team get to run them as well?
personally, I would like to see AMD and Nvidia merge, make war with Intel, make for some awesome prices and technology for all of us - who knows, maybe good old Matrix will come again with something, after all they was the 1st 3D card back in windows 95 days, shortly before S3 which is back going again too (always was as part of VIA).
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Jeez keys, you keep spinning my words around and around untill it makes my own head spin. I do infact advocate giving 2 ounces of thought to the immediate future, and the immediate future holds no important, or even mediocre physx titles that require hardware accelerated physx support which is only possible with a PPU or GPU from nvidia. Hence I don't think he should base his decision on wether his graphics card can run physx. He should buy the videocard that he thinks suits him best, and if he wants maximum performance on a 30" screen, then it has to be a HD4870X2, and he shouldn't worry about the fact that it doesn't ( yet ) support physx.
Sorry Marc. To me, even this post says, "Don't consider PhysX". PhysX should be considered. Some titles are here, with partial PhysX content, and one full title. UT3 and GRAW2 are pretty kewl. Warmonger is meh. Others are right around the corner. September is almost here, and with new titles out before Xmas, that is only 3-4 months out "max". To me, that is the immediate future and should very much be considered. I'm not trying to spin your words dude.
It looks like that is what you are posting.
"Right now I think it's foolish to choose a videocard based on a features not even being utilized. Just like dx10.1 is no reason to buy ATI over Nvidia."
But PhysX IS being utilized. Right now. DX10.1 is not. There is a difference there don't you think?
OP, are you gaming on a 30" screen?
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Keys, I review games. I've got 8 games lined up for september, of which NONE require hardware physx acceleration. There's tripple a titles like spore, warhammer online, brothers in arms, stalker clear sky, crysis warhead, mercenaries 2, of which none need hardware physx acceleration. I could continue with all the other games in october, november and even december, but there's NOTHING, zip, nada, niks, and more nothing. Then there's mirror's edge, it's basicaly a jump around kind of game, and no serious, groundbreaking, new gameplay like physx elements will be introduced, unless my information is way off ofcourse. But it is touted to be a major physx title.
So besides UT3 and Graw2, and only some maps at that, you've got nothing to stand on. Whats exactly right around the corner, perhaps you know more then I do? Perhaps in 4 months, but more like 6-8 months physx games might be round around the corner, and perhaps THEN I could agree with you, and then we should really consider physx as a important part to get nvidia over ATI, but not right now. ALL the major reviewing sites have been saying it, yet you still keep claiming the direct opposite. Physx games aren't here yet, and developerwide adoption of physx is a long way out.
Originally posted by: Wreckage
I think Physx was a major coup for NVIDIA. It really leaves ATI behind technology wise and I really don't see them catching up any time soon.
There is zero support for Havok on ATI GPUs and I doubt there ever will be.
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Yes CM123, you can 'tell' the gtx280 to just run graphics only, and have the PPU do all the physics. Just like you can SLI two nvidia videocards, on a non SLI mobo might I add, and tell one videocard to do graphics, and the other to do physics.
Originally posted by: apoppin
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
What are you talking about? ATI displayed GPU Havok Physic back in 2006 It's up to them, Intel, and MS to release it when their ready.Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: apoppin
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
Which ATI cards does this "press release" run on? What kind of frame rate hit do you get from using this "press release"? Have you yourself installed and ran this "press release" yet? Which games are currently supporting this "press release".
I assume you get my point. :roll:
NVIDIA HAS WORKING GPU PHYSICS. ATI DOES NOT. THESE ARE THE FACTS. You won't see Havok on an ATI card for years if ever. I would bet on it.
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: apoppin
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
Which ATI cards does this "press release" run on? What kind of frame rate hit do you get from using this "press release"? Have you yourself installed and ran this "press release" yet? Which games are currently supporting this "press release".
I assume you get my point. :roll:
NVIDIA HAS WORKING GPU PHYSICS. ATI DOES NOT. THESE ARE THE FACTS. You won't see Havok on an ATI card for years if ever. I would bet on it.
Our brash zealot does have a point here. AMD has been rather shady on Havok since that press release; they've been trying to imply that they're working on it, without ever committing to it. If they were trying to hide its development they would be saying nothing, if they were trying to boast about its development they would have solid details to provide. Instead all they talk about is "exploring" the situation, which tells me that they aren't making any kind of serious effort at this point.Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: apoppin
Did you miss the press releases where AMD and Havok agreed to work together to develop Havok for *both* CPU/GPU
Which ATI cards does this "press release" run on? What kind of frame rate hit do you get from using this "press release"? Have you yourself installed and ran this "press release" yet? Which games are currently supporting this "press release".
I assume you get my point. :roll:
NVIDIA HAS WORKING GPU PHYSICS. ATI DOES NOT. THESE ARE THE FACTS. You won't see Havok on an ATI card for years if ever. I would bet on it.
That would be Havok FX, which is dead. It was a second-order (eyecandy-only) physics system executed through Shader Model 3.0. Havok killed it for reasons unknown, and it doesn't look like anything of it was kept. If Havok was working on a GPU physics system, it would have to be from the ground-up using some kind of more flexible high level language, such as CUDA or Brook+.Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
What are you talking about? ATI displayed GPU Havok Physic back in 2006 It's up to them, Intel, and MS to release it when their ready.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5838
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...sWkRE0&feature=related
Nvidia on the other hand has MS, Intel, and AMD/ATI to go against when the time comes. If you ask me Nvidia PhysX isn't going to last long going up against the big 3.
Originally posted by: cm123
who knows, maybe good old Matrix will come again with something, after all they was the 1st 3D card back in windows 95 days, shortly before S3 which is back going again too (always was as part of VIA).
Uhh, I have a S3 ViRGE sitting here that would gladly argue with you.Originally posted by: myocardia
Originally posted by: cm123
who knows, maybe good old Matrix will come again with something, after all they was the 1st 3D card back in windows 95 days, shortly before S3 which is back going again too (always was as part of VIA).
3dFX sold the first 3d video card (chip, or GPU). It used the Voodoo chip. Without 3dFX, we'd all still be gaming in 2d.
Originally posted by: ViRGE
. . . AMD has been rather shady on Havok since that press release; they've been trying to imply that they're working on it, without ever committing to it. If they were trying to hide its development they would be saying nothing, if they were trying to boast about its development they would have solid details to provide. Instead all they talk about is "exploring" the situation, which tells me that they aren't making any kind of serious effort at this point.
That's because sony had more people backing it up. The same can be said for havok. MS really didn't do anything to support HD-DVD. If they want to support it, then it would of came stock in all 360s.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
HD-DVD was backed by Microsoft and Intel, and yet HD-DVD players now serve as upconverting DVD players.
Originally posted by: taltamir
And sourthings... nvidia did not lose the performance crown. AMD simply initiated a very agressive price war that drove prices down across the board.
Right now:
Fastest overall: 3x GTX280
Fastest single slot: 4870x2
Fastest single GPU: GTX280
Best bang for the buck (the one figure that matters)? 4850, GTX260, and 4870 @ their respective price points.
Ironically. the 4870x2. touted as the GTX280 slayer, was delayed for so long, as it came out only 10 days before the 55nm G200b will supposedly arrive. mmm... which is actually, now. what happened? wasn't it gonna be released today or yesturday (i forgot which).
Along with the drivers will come a downloadable PhysX software pack containing free Unreal Tournament 3 maps, the full version of NetDevil's Warmonger, a couple of Nvidia demos, and sneak peeks at Object Software's Metal Knight Zero and Nurien Software's Nurien social-networking service.
Nvidia told us about two upcoming titles that will feature PhysX hardware acceleration. One of them is DICE's Mirror's Edge, which will feature awesome-looking first-person free running in a futuristic dystopia. Another is Natural Motion's Backbreaker, a third-person football sim. Nvidia claims studios have signed on to implement PhysX in another 10 games?and that's just in the month following the Ageia acquisition.
NVIDIA Corporation and Emergent Game Technologies have expanded their relationship resulting in NVIDIA PhysX technology being directly integrated into all upcoming versions of the Emergent Gamebryo game development platform. The union of PhysX technology and Gamebryo will give developers the power to push gaming to new levels of interactivity on all platforms and make world-class technology more accessible to the development community.
Gamebryo has been fully optimized for development on Playstation 3, Xbox 360, PC and Wii, and was recently selected as the development platform for the next-generation console titles Civilization Revolution by Firaxis and Splatterhouse by BottleRocket. Gamebryo is also being used by EA-Mythic for its upcoming game, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning as well as Divinity 2: Ego Draconis from Larian Studios.
Realtime Worlds? upcoming massively multiplayer online game, APB, will take advantage of NVIDIA® GeForce® GPUs and PhysX? technology to enhance the game?s free-form combat and real-time driving environments.