Pizza Is Life

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Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
41,078
12,317
146
My favorite sushi place makes a fried Scallion-crust sushi pizza that is mind-blowing. Should probably be reported to Pizza Crimes, but I'll die on this hill lol

View attachment 123191
HARD PASS. LOL. At my last job, I had a co-worker, when asked what kind of pizza I should make this week, suggest that I make a sushi pizza. I HATE sushi. I settled by making a mac n' cheese pizza that he loved at a child. Of course, I made the mac n' cheese from scratch for the first time and used it as my base. Then, pecan smoked sausage finished off with fresh sliced jalapenos!



Just understand that this was probably a couple of years ago, early on in my latest pizza journey. I would make normal pizzas most of the time. But once every couple of months I would experiment in what I call "the different." It's fun to try out of the box combinations. Of course, you're taking a chance that it doesn't work (read: it sucks).

I kinda wonder how this would do today. Those guys over in r/pizza are pizza snobs. This one bombed on the subreddit. So many gate keep. You do a plain cheese, have cupping pepperoni or do a Margherita using fresh basil and you are loved... as long as you cook it the correct way. It did make me push myself harder to make a pizza that was not only yummy, but aesthetically pleasing (read: food porn). So, taking good shots of the process and sharing my methods/recipes made me more popular.

@DigDog, Nice thread!
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,340
2,805
126
oh god, i mean i'm sure it's delicious, but in my mind sushi is fish - wasabi -rice. At most a strip of nori. No mayo, no sesame seeds, no "dessert sushi", the same way that a pizza is only a pizza if it's got those specific "nonna approved" ingredients on it. mac & cheese pizza is not pizza, it's mac and cheese, served over a pizza or whatever's left of the pizza.
I guess if you're good at cooking you can make anything made well, even mac & cheese pizza, but it's a dish i could never see again and i wouldn't miss it.

Gatekeeping is an art. I myself an more guilty than Judas when it comes to gatekeeping, more traditionalist than a shinto priest, and it's not like i don't like mac & cheese, or any other food item - but i don't like when they get mashed together. They lose their "purity".

oh by the way, my reddit sub of choice when it comes to all things dough is not r/pizza, but rather r/breadit. "Bread-it". And "Redd-it", get it? Ahahahs hahahaha

oh by the way @Kaido the original, i mean THE original recipe for ragu' alla bolognese, calls for milk cream to be added. Specifically the recipe says to boil milk, let it foam and cool down, and then skim the "skin" and add that to the ragu. And it's another of those dishes that is far better when cooked the day before, to give it time to become soft again.
In simpler terms, when making a ragout just add some cream, and let is rest until it's cooled down.

I reasoned that this should work with chili as well, and in a way it does, but then it starts to not feel like chili anymore, but rather like some overspiced meat sauce. That's why i instead deviated to have my chili being half-cooked, half-raw, and the bolognese instead being smooth and creamy.

Oh and a great trick for dried-beans-based dishes is to add the beans in 2 stages. So that a portion of the beans maintains the bite and texture, but another melts completely.

Finally, a trick i recommend vehemently is for broths, i have learned it from Townsends
bake your onions, whole, unpeeled. It sweetens the onions .. kinda in the same way that french onion soup does .. in a fraction of the time. And once done & cooled, they keep well in the fridge, and can be used at a moment's notice for stock.
 
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Reactions: Kaido

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,340
2,805
126
also, again for @Kaido , surely you must be wrong when you say that american ovens are not vented?
I think they may be referring to ventilation, as you would in the restaurant. The big, loud hood above the range that sucks in air and spits it outside the house.
Because gas needs to combine with oxygen to burn. Yup, ChatGPT confirms that grid gas does not contain oxygen, and that it needs oxygen to combust, ergo "That’s why gas stoves have openings or air inlets around the burners—to mix the fuel with ambient air before ignition." <- GPT
So the ovens *must* have vents. Or when the oxygen trapped inside the oven is all consumed, the flame would go out, but the gas would continue pouring in the oven, with very BOOM results.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,340
2,805
126
When you got a traditional pizza oven, the floor of the oven (the stones on which you cook the pizza) is very thick. This allows for a lot of heat to be retained.

You may not know this, but when you cook in those ovens, you need to turn the pizza so that half of the cooking time one side faces the burning wood, then half for the other, so the sides don't burn. And, a specific skill is to return the pizza to the exact identical spot, because a single pizza will drain the heat from that spot. If you instead return it to somewhere else, that spot will have too much stored heat and will burn the bottom of the pizza.

This all means that retained heat is important. And modern refractory stones cannot retain as much heat. Pizza steel are also not as good as a traditional brick, because they transfer heat faster. Sure, this can help when you are using a home oven that has very little heat retention anywhere that can touch the base of the pizza, but if you had higher temperatures, the result would be inferior.

With the considered, if i was to buy myself an oven, i would almost certainly go with one of those that has a burner underneath the stone. This is such a minor change but such a brilliant idea, because, well the majority of these portable ovens are not designed by italians, because we're incapable of having a creative thought, they are built by americans who wouldn't necessarily put that much importance of the leopard spots.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski
Jul 27, 2020
24,499
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well the majority of these portable ovens are not designed by italians, because we're incapable of having a creative thought, they are built by americans who wouldn't necessarily put that much importance of the leopard spots.
That's why you need to don a business suit and pitch this idea to some American angel investor and start your pizza oven company. Would be most excellent if you call it the DigDog Oven.
 

bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
41,078
12,317
146
Ah, you are a gatekeeper! And that is not a good thing. Even the Italians have moved on from you. All those gatekeepers in that sub think they know everything about what is "real". They think that there's only one kind of true pizza. Nonsense. Those Italians are building and using modern equipment. The ones you deride. Those gatekeepers think that there's only one type of pizza made in Old Napoli. They are incorrect. I've been to Naples. I've been to Rome. I've had pizza in Livorno. I've had pizza and Sicily. It's different from region to region and from one pizzeria to another. There's good pizza and there's bad pizza everywhere.

As far as my mac and cheese pizza, I am not original. I was just new in my pizza making journey. If I was to redo it today I probably could have a modest hit. I've seen other mac and cheese pizzas that did well on that sub. I know what issues I encountered. My experience now would allow me to make changes and that pizza would be a lot better.

As far as this week's pizza, I'm at 910 as of this morning. I might not get to a thousand this week. That's kind of my bellwether. It still was a successful submission.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,365
1,012
136
I won't ask for it or buy it, but I'd try a slice of sushi pizza were it offered to me.

Also, as far as controversial toppings go, pineapple does belong on pizza.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,226
6,440
136
also, again for @Kaido , surely you must be wrong when you say that american ovens are not vented?
I think they may be referring to ventilation, as you would in the restaurant. The big, loud hood above the range that sucks in air and spits it outside the house.
Because gas needs to combine with oxygen to burn. Yup, ChatGPT confirms that grid gas does not contain oxygen, and that it needs oxygen to combust, ergo "That’s why gas stoves have openings or air inlets around the burners—to mix the fuel with ambient air before ignition." <- GPT
So the ovens *must* have vents. Or when the oxygen trapped inside the oven is all consumed, the flame would go out, but the gas would continue pouring in the oven, with very BOOM results.

Right, meant ventilation. Most American homes do not have external ventilation for the kitchen room. We have these crappy recirculating filters that don't work lol.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,226
6,440
136
I won't ask for it or buy it, but I'd try a slice of sushi pizza were it offered to me.

Also, as far as controversial toppings go, pineapple does belong on pizza.

Canadian bacon + pineapple is a win for me!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,226
6,440
136

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,340
2,805
126
Ah, you are a gatekeeper! And that is not a good thing. Even the Italians have moved on from you. All those gatekeepers in that sub think they know everything about what is "real". They think that there's only one kind of true pizza. Nonsense. Those Italians are building and using modern equipment. The ones you deride. Those gatekeepers think that there's only one type of pizza made in Old Napoli. They are incorrect. I've been to Naples. I've been to Rome. I've had pizza in Livorno. I've had pizza and Sicily. It's different from region to region and from one pizzeria to another. There's good pizza and there's bad pizza everywhere.

As far as my mac and cheese pizza, I am not original. I was just new in my pizza making journey. If I was to redo it today I probably could have a modest hit. I've seen other mac and cheese pizzas that did well on that sub. I know what issues I encountered. My experience now would allow me to make changes and that pizza would be a lot better.

As far as this week's pizza, I'm at 910 as of this morning. I might not get to a thousand this week. That's kind of my bellwether. It still was a successful submission.
look, i think we're making it seem like it's worse than it is.

I believe that there is things that classify as "real pizza" and things that don't. I am not saying "if it's not real pizza, it's shit". There's plenty of bread-based foods that are great but are not pizza according to the Gatekeeper's Creed.

I often get into fights with people over what is considered carbonara, or amatriciana, which examplifies why i am a pro-gatekeeping. Let's take amatriciana.

This is a rather nasty dish that was made with an off-cut, pig cheek. It's very greasy, rancid. You then add a bit of acidity from the tomato, and you really just want to briefly cook the tomato sauce. Because of the acidity. You need that.

Now, if you add, let's say, charred peppers. It's not traditional, but the taste does work with the guanciale. And i have no problem with you calling it "amatriciana con i peperoni". But if you add idk, dill, or basil, or nduja, then i question what kind of taste you have. Because they don't work together.
The same way that "modern" chefs nowadays love making carbonara with guanciale. It just doesn't work, you don't want that rancid greasy taste with eggs and cream, nobody in their right mind would think hey, i got this omelette, you know what would be nice here, some pork fat that tastes of rancid and it's so astringent it makes your mouth hurt when you eat it.

We italianos are very attached to tradition; when you say "im making carbonara" we expect to get something very specific. We will not appreciate it if you've added clams or crabmeat or peas or soybeans or provolone. We're open to eating anything that tastes good, but we find it offensive when you say "this thing here is called THIS NAME" and it's not at all what we call that. And it's an italian dish.

Pizza is certainly different between naples and rome, or milan, or cremona. But it's all pizza. No italian goes to genova and says "oh THIS IS NOT PIZZA" because it's made according to the same sensibilities that govern neapolitan or any other.
The base will not be thick. It will not be soaked in sauce. The crust will taste of freshly baked bread, it will have a slight char, and the ingredients will be fresh, but the pizza overall will be a light meal, not something heavy or greasy.

The very "pineapple on pizza" works AGAINST those who accuse gatekeeping. Some guys from italy one day decided to make a good italian pizza with ham & pineapple and, well, they did, because they followed the rules of pizza. So the pizza was thin, the ingredients weren't full of water, the bread was well cooked, and it tasted nice - but that doesn't mean that you go to any US pizza joint and you ordern an hawaiian, and that an italian would say "wow this is really good pizza".
 
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