Platoon defies orders in Iraq

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: conjur
I don't see how their story has changed. We're just seeing more detail on it now.

Can we wait to condemn them until we KNOW the facts, they are, after all fighting for your safety.

And we should be fighting for THEIR safety. That's why I'm on their side. If you have people with 10, 15, 20 years' experience in the military and they're purposefully disobeying orders, somethings awry and my guess is it's from the higher-ups.

 

[conjur]

Soldiers who refused duty said to face discipline
http://www.boston.com/news/wor...be%20--%20World%20News

WASHINGTON -- Soldiers from an Army Reserve unit in Iraq who refused to take part in a convoy last month, citing security concerns and maintenance problems with their vehicles, are facing disciplinary action and some could be charged criminally, Pentagon and military officials said yesterday.

As many as two dozen soldiers from the 343d Quartermaster Company, an Army Reserve based in Rock Hill, S.C., were part of the investigation that began Oct. 13 when soldiers refused to take part in a cross-country fuel convoy.

The mission was carried out later by others from the 120-soldier unit who took the convoy from Tallil air base near the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah to Taji north of Baghdad.

A Pentagon official, who requested anonymity, said a number of soldiers under investigation are facing an Article 15 -- an administrative action that could lead to a fine, loss of pay or rank -- or letters of reprimand. As many as five could be recommended for criminal charges and the possibility of courts martial, the official said.

Initially, the investigation centered on 17 soldiers who refused to travel in the convoy, although now as many as two dozen could face disciplinary action that includes charges of disobeying a lawful order and conspiracy, officials said.

Major Richard Spiegel, a spokesman for the 13th Corps Support Command, which includes the 343d, said in an e-mail that the command's top officer, Brigadier General James E. Chambers, has received the initial review into the incident. ''Certain administrative actions have been initiated as a result of this review and more actions, including criminal charges, are possible in the future," Spiegel wrote, declining to provide additional details.

The unit arrived in Iraq in February for a yearlong mission. Family members of the soldiers have said their relatives refused to go on the October mission because their vehicles were poorly maintained and without necessary armor. Moreover, the military confirmed another complaint of the soldiers, that the Oct. 13th mission was longer than their normal convoy operations.

After the soldiers refused to go on the mission, the unit's operations were halted while it underwent a two-week ''maintenance and safety training stand down."

Facing possible criminal charges because they feared for their lives due to apparent incompetence in their commander's order?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: conjurFacing possible criminal charges because they feared for their lives due to apparent incompetence in their commander's order?

Disobeying an order unless it is unlawful is against the USCMJ.

Incompetence by a commanding officer is not considered to be an unlawful order.

Regretfully, one can have a incompetent CO, however, you are required to obey oders from that person.

 

[maluckey]

Let's call them for what they are....stupid and scared. Many units in the exact same circumstances while in Iraq have performed the same mission without Mutiny, Barratry, or disobeying orders.

Link of Soldiers who had to do the 343rds' duty for them, and did it without complaints, under the same situation.

Risking your life is part of being a soldier. Anyone ever hear of Hamburger Hill, Fulda; perhaps Iwo-Jima?? Soldiers were ordered to attack, knowing that they had less than a one in four chance of returning alive, and less than 1 in three for being injured. The odds were far better than that in Iraq.

There was nothing unlawful about sending fuel trucks to deliver fuel, even though theiy had no escort. I agree that it sucked to be them, but the mission had to be done. The Commander had choices and he made the wrong one, and now he and all his soldiers lives are ruined by this poor choice. A Dishonorable Discharge can easily ruin your life.

 

[conjur]

Being forced to deliver contaminated fuel is ok?

 

[maluckey]

Conjur,

Doing the job you are told to do is always OK. I guess you are inferring that refusing to be a soldier is OK?

You sign on the line to risk your life for your country. You also sign that you will uphold the laws of the country you serve. You do not sign to select the laws you want to uphold, and discard those with which you disagree.

If in the Military you disagree with your orders, you have legal methods of registering your complaints. We have little room for cowards, idiots or Mavericks. All three of those types get you killed. They deserve any punishment meted out o them. I just hope that they are not my support crew........

 

[conjur]

Is someone in the military required to follow an order that places non-combat personnel into improperly armored, improperly maintained vehicles to deliver fuel that was contaminated and, therefore, dangerous to those who would use it in the field of battle?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: conjur
Being forced to deliver contaminated fuel is ok?

Following orders is neccessary, you can question your officers reasons but in the end you should do what they tell you to do, if the commander can not get he troops to follow his orders there might be implications far beyond what the troops know which is why the line of command needs to be followed and never disobeyed.

They should be punished for this.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: conjur
Being forced to deliver contaminated fuel is ok?

Following orders is neccessary, you can question your officers reasons but in the end you should do what they tell you to do, if the commander can not get he troops to follow his orders there might be implications far beyond what the troops know which is why the line of command needs to be followed and never disobeyed.

They should be punished for this.

And the commander doesn't need to be reviewed by someone higher up?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: conjur
Is someone in the military required to follow an order that places non-combat personnel into improperly armored, improperly maintained vehicles to deliver fuel that was contaminated and, therefore, dangerous to those who would use it in the field of battle?

Yes.

As a soldier you do not have the information neccessary to make these judgements and have to rely on the chain of command and trust that they know what they are doing.

If you don't want to be in harms way, don't join the military.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: conjur
Being forced to deliver contaminated fuel is ok?

Following orders is neccessary, you can question your officers reasons but in the end you should do what they tell you to do, if the commander can not get he troops to follow his orders there might be implications far beyond what the troops know which is why the line of command needs to be followed and never disobeyed.

They should be punished for this.

And the commander doesn't need to be reviewed by someone higher up?

Oh trust me, we are reviewed.

It's not like we hand out orders on a whim without anyone reviewing our performance in the field, there are channels for the troops to complain and if they do they will be heard, but it is crucial that the men follow the orders they are given, it would be impossible to handle a strike if every platoon decided for themselves how they should handle the situation.

The different platoons depend on eachother and when one platoon defies orders it puts another in jeopardy.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: conjur
Is someone in the military required to follow an order that places non-combat personnel into improperly armored, improperly maintained vehicles to deliver fuel that was contaminated and, therefore, dangerous to those who would use it in the field of battle?

Yes.

As a soldier you do not have the information neccessary to make these judgements and have to rely on the chain of command and trust that they know what they are doing.

If you don't want to be in harms way, don't join the military.

Just doesn't strike me as the proper way to run an organization by sending a convoy out with poorly-maintained equipment into a hostile area to deliver contaminated fuel.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: conjur
Is someone in the military required to follow an order that places non-combat personnel into improperly armored, improperly maintained vehicles to deliver fuel that was contaminated and, therefore, dangerous to those who would use it in the field of battle?

Yes.

As a soldier you do not have the information neccessary to make these judgements and have to rely on the chain of command and trust that they know what they are doing.

If you don't want to be in harms way, don't join the military.

Just doesn't strike me as the proper way to run an organization by sending a convoy out with poorly-maintained equipment into a hostile area to deliver contaminated fuel.

This seems like a fvcked up world to any civilian but the orders and what they were don't really matter.

You do what you are ordered to do because you are a part of something bigger and if you don't do what you are ordered to do others will suffer for it.

These cowards disobeyed orders and others had to handle it for them, fortunantly nobody got hurt because of this but it is not something that is even close to being acceptable.

 

[maluckey]

Often times, Klixxer and I are at odds on many subjects, but on this one were are in lock-step. Soldiers have a duty to do as they are told. They also have a right to complain if they feel that they are mistreated. Complaints ARE reviewed. Commanders DO get disciplined.