Please, can someone help me understand?

ducksoup0

Member
Oct 20, 2004
39
0
0
Forget Iraq for a moment:

Bush has destroyed the economy by losing jobs and pushing us far further into debt;

he has raped the Constitution with the so-called "Patriot" Act and by funding religious organizations with public money;

he seems more interested in protecting his corporate sponsors than Americans;

many domestic security issues are allowed to flounder, like the inspection of imported cargo, or the protection of vital infrastructure;

his cabinet is filled with the scum of the Earth, and they have no accountability to the people when they screw up;

face it, there is nothing special he did on 9/11 or after it; he just got up there and hugged some firemen and families; now he is using it as a rallying cry, but it should be the shame of his administration


Don't just say that he's better than Kerry; Kerry wasn't president for the last 4 years, Bush had his chance.

What reason is there to support Bush, based on domestic policy alone?
 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Those are some very subjective statements.. The economy is not 'destroyed', its doing quite well.. even if you say its only doing 'average'.. Your statement that he destroyed it is just false.

99% of the U.S. Senate also supported the Patriot Act, do you include them in your criticism? Of course not, that wouldn't fit your agenda.. its all Bush's fault.. I would argue that the Patriot Act hasn't done any harm, but again, if we accept your premise, you need to also criticize tons of democrats for supporting it as well.

'More interested in protecting his corporate sponsors'.. Right, and Billionaire Kerry has NO corporate interests? Give me a break... All politicians do that.

You claim the Patriot Act is raping the constitution, but then claim he isn't doing enough to protect vital infrastucture... So, how exactly are we going to do that without limiting at least SOME rights of people? Just wave the magic Kerry wand and its all protected? Of course not, you need to give Police and other Law Enforcement the ability to DO their jobs.

Of course his cabinet has accountability.. don't like them, don't vote for Bush.. thats how its worked since George Washington, but we'll change our constitution becaues you don't like it.

He did nothing after 9/11.. Ok, if the President didn't do anything, what did KERRY do?

Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

Besides, this is like the 10 millionth time one of you libs have posted a topic like this.. try the search function Mr. 30 posts.
 

ITJunkie

Platinum Member
Apr 17, 2003
2,512
0
76
www.techange.com
Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

No offense here Buckwheat but isn't "we KNOW what Bush would do" reason enough to vote for Kerry?

 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

No offense here Buckwheat but isn't "we KNOW what Bush would do" reason enough to vote for Kerry?

Not for me, and not for about 50% of the rest of the population of the United States. One thing you liberals just can't STAND is the fact that people can actually have differing opinions than you. You claim to be the party of 'tolerance' and you have absolutely NONE for anyone who disagrees with you.

Here's a clue.. your opinion is not the only one.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

No offense here Buckwheat but isn't "we KNOW what Bush would do" reason enough to vote for Kerry?

Not for me, and not for about 50% of the rest of the population of the United States. One thing you liberals just can't STAND is the fact that people can actually have differing opinions than you. You claim to be the party of 'tolerance' and you have absolutely NONE for anyone who disagrees with you.

Here's a clue.. your opinion is not the only one.


I think we know what your opinion is. Now it's time to back it up with some facts and arguments. The OP obviously knows there are people that support Bush. He wants to know WHY. You can't answer that by saying, "I support Bush."
 

ducksoup0

Member
Oct 20, 2004
39
0
0
Originally posted by: Crimson
Those are some very subjective statements.. The economy is not 'destroyed', its doing quite well.. even if you say its only doing 'average'.. Your statement that he destroyed it is just false.

We were on track to eliminate our debts. Now we have more than ever. In addition, we've lost jobs over the last four years. How do you address that?

99% of the U.S. Senate also supported the Patriot Act, do you include them in your criticism? Of course not, that wouldn't fit your agenda.. its all Bush's fault.. I would argue that the Patriot Act hasn't done any harm, but again, if we accept your premise, you need to also criticize tons of democrats for supporting it as well.

In fact, I do. I think they all were a bunch of pussies for not standing up to Bush (no pun intended).

'More interested in protecting his corporate sponsors'.. Right, and Billionaire Kerry has NO corporate interests? Give me a break... All politicians do that.

So Bush should jump off a bridge if that's what everyone is doing?

You claim the Patriot Act is raping the constitution, but then claim he isn't doing enough to protect vital infrastucture... So, how exactly are we going to do that without limiting at least SOME rights of people? Just wave the magic Kerry wand and its all protected? Of course not, you need to give Police and other Law Enforcement the ability to DO their jobs.

How is being able to strip citizenship from someone giving the police the ability to do their jobs?

Of course his cabinet has accountability.. don't like them, don't vote for Bush.. thats how its worked since George Washington, but we'll change our constitution becaues you don't like it.

Actually, resignations and apologies would work quite well too.

He did nothing after 9/11.. Ok, if the President didn't do anything, what did KERRY do?

What did you do? But who is the commander-in-chief?

Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

No, both Kerry AND Bush need to prove themselves, to us. But Bush has a lot more proof against him.

Besides, this is like the 10 millionth time one of you libs have posted a topic like this.. try the search function Mr. 30 posts.

You shouldn't assume I'm attacking Mr. Bush from the side of liberals, you know, not just liberals hate Bush. Economically, I am a conservative, but I cannot identify myself with Republicans because they carry way too much baggage in the form of mysticism and corporatism. But I would hardly classify Bush as a conservative, even though he is the Republican candidate. He spends too much money.
 

XaznPKdogX

Member
Feb 4, 2001
72
0
0
Not every man can lead. The choices we have are limited. Put yourself in Bush's shoe. You think everyone would see eye to eye with you. The military supports Bush. So he hugged some firemen. How would you feel picking up dead bodies from 9/11? So they met someone in high rank. I bet the firemen enjoyed that. I would enjoy it too. Just like fools enjoy seeing britney spears in person. I wanted to see him when he was in elmhurst, queens, ny which was only 5 minutes away from me hugging firemen. However I saw him in his car on 34th street going to the convention.

He's putting terrorism up on the list. Kerry wants to make it a nuisance. I support Bush and his actions to go into war and that is upmost reason why. You think giving them what they want will stop the killing? Decapitations and using God's name? They were so barbaric to run a plane into the Twin towers which I was not far from. I smelled the burning fuel and rubbel, which includes the souls of those unfortunate.

Bush is better, why? because he did what he did and Kerry says what he will do which is totally incompetent. Going back and forth on issues and issues he does stick to are ridiculous. And bringing up Cheney's daughter to go about the democratic campaign was humanely wrong.
 

XaznPKdogX

Member
Feb 4, 2001
72
0
0
Well to direct domesticly we have to be aware internationally. An economy fall in Britain will cause a ripple effect here. He did mention the economy. He brought up 9/11 too.
 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

No offense here Buckwheat but isn't "we KNOW what Bush would do" reason enough to vote for Kerry?

Not for me, and not for about 50% of the rest of the population of the United States. One thing you liberals just can't STAND is the fact that people can actually have differing opinions than you. You claim to be the party of 'tolerance' and you have absolutely NONE for anyone who disagrees with you.

Here's a clue.. your opinion is not the only one.


I think we know what your opinion is. Now it's time to back it up with some facts and arguments. The OP obviously knows there are people that support Bush. He wants to know WHY. You can't answer that by saying, "I support Bush."

You want facts? Bush has lowered taxes.. for EVERYONE.. Thats a good thing.. and thats the #1 reason I give bush the edge on domestic issues. My #1 most important issue to me and my family is how much money of MINE I am going to keep. Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.. And he also said he is going to rollback Bush's tax cuts. Those tax cuts helped me, my family, my relatives, everyone with a child.. just about every last person in this country who paid any taxes.

And thats a FACT.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Crimson
Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.

And thats a FACT.

To be fair he said he was going to increase taxes only on people earning over $200,000.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Crimson
Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.

And thats a FACT.
To be fair he said he was going to increase taxes only on people earning over $200,000.
Since when have people like Crimson tried to be fair? Let's not kid ourselves.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Kerry needs to prove himself, not the other way around.. we KNOW what Bush would do, we don't know what Kerry will do.. Its up to Kerry to prove himself better.. George already has the job..

No offense here Buckwheat but isn't "we KNOW what Bush would do" reason enough to vote for Kerry?

Not for me, and not for about 50% of the rest of the population of the United States. One thing you liberals just can't STAND is the fact that people can actually have differing opinions than you. You claim to be the party of 'tolerance' and you have absolutely NONE for anyone who disagrees with you.

Here's a clue.. your opinion is not the only one.


I think we know what your opinion is. Now it's time to back it up with some facts and arguments. The OP obviously knows there are people that support Bush. He wants to know WHY. You can't answer that by saying, "I support Bush."

You want facts? Bush has lowered taxes.. for EVERYONE.. Thats a good thing.. and thats the #1 reason I give bush the edge on domestic issues. My #1 most important issue to me and my family is how much money of MINE I am going to keep. Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.. And he also said he is going to rollback Bush's tax cuts. Those tax cuts helped me, my family, my relatives, everyone with a child.. just about every last person in this country who paid any taxes.

And thats a FACT.

I'm glad that you make over $200,000 per year. That's quite an achievement. I'm not quite there yet.....but would glady trade my salary for and tax cuts for a $200,000 per year one with no tax cuts.

You seemed to have cut off part of Kerry's tax plan..."on people making over $200,000 per year".

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Since when have people like Crimson tried to be fair? Let's not kid ourselves.

Good poing. I asked myself in another thread just a moment ago why I'm bothering with him. I find it interesting that when the conversation starts getting somewhat civil or detailed he bails.
 

Luck JF

Senior member
Sep 4, 2004
203
0
0
Please try to understand the President's job is not to fix every ill in our nation. I do not believe we need any new laws. We have plenty of laws already. Let's just use the ones we have. So what I want is a President who is not going to try to change everything. Everything is working fine so just let it be.
Are medical costs rising? Yes, but a free market will drive the prices back down. It is best not to interfere with it at this point. When Doctors have no business because of their high prices they will lower their rates. It happens in every other industry.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Crimson
Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.

And thats a FACT.

To be fair he said he was going to increase taxes only on people earning over $200,000.

Well people making over 200k aren't people now are they?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Bush has destroyed the economy by losing jobs and pushing us far further into debt;

Economy grew at 4.6% in 2003 and I believe will meet that this year. If it was destroyed you would see something like the great depression with large negative growth rates and unemployment into the 30% range.

5.4% unemployment and positive GDP growth is a real long shot definition of "destroyed".

he has raped the Constitution with the so-called "Patriot" Act and by funding religious organizations with public money;

How many people have been prosecuted under the patriot act? How many abuses in 3 years? From what I can tell there has been 1 unlawful prosescution in 3 years. That guy got off on his appeal. Yeah I know many of you think the patriot act locks you up and throws away the key. But it doesnt.

face it, there is nothing special he did on 9/11 or after it; he just got up there and hugged some firemen and families; now he is using it as a rallying cry, but it should be the shame of his administration

If John Kerry was there he would have been getting a manicure. Dont believe me? Ask Johnny what he was doing in Florida before the first debate after a hurricane just ravaged the land. Bush was out helping people, Kerry was getting sleep, a fake tan, and his nails done. Brilliant humanitarian there.

We were on track to eliminate our debts. Now we have more than ever. In addition, we've lost jobs over the last four years. How do you address that?

Then the internet boom popped and all those revenues they were expecting for the surplus disappeared. you see during the internet boom the revenues from taxes skyrocketed as a record % of the people were employed. But what did the govt and senators like Kerry do? They spent right along with the unrealistic increase in revenues instead of actually paying down the debt. If the govt would have held the spending to 1997 levels instead of ballooning with the economic boom. Then we wouldnt be in the position we are today when it finally popped.

Even John Kerry cant tell us he expected the boom to last forever. Where was his foresight in all of this? Why didnt he addresss it until 4 years after the fact?

To be fair he said he was going to increase taxes only on people earning over $200,000.

Which will yield about 60 billion more in the govt coffers. How does that pay for his increases in govt? It doesnt, and if he gets elected we can only hope the repubs hold the house and senate. Because generating 60 billion more in tax revenues by taxing the top 1% will not offset the hudreds of billions he is proposing.


My take on the domestic policy of Bush is he has been too pre-occupied with the war on terror. He has done some good things like pass the child tax credit and the school act. But in the last debate he had a good overview of what he will do in the next 4 years.

#1. SS overhaul. This needs to be done or this country will be run into the dirt. FDR had a decent idea but this is not the 1930s where people lived to 60. We are living to 80+ with ease and the younger generations can not afford to pay the baby boomers. Kerry wants to keep it the way it is even if it is broken.
#2. Health savings plans. We already have them to an extent but I believe this is a good idea. Kerry wants to expand the govts reach into the private healthcare industry. A scary expensive proposition when you think about the baby boomers coming of age over the next 20-30 years. How do we pay for such a thing?
#3. Taxes and spending. Bush hasnt exactly been a model for fiscal responsibility. This comes with the time of war. The govt spent ~2.8 trillion on WWII. In todays dollars it would have cost us 34,610,800,000,000. Yes that is 34.6 trillion to fight WWII or 3x the gdp. Wars cost not only money but also the economy. Kerrys flimsy excuse to tax the top 1% to pay for everything is wishful thinking. The simple fact is a tax burden will be placed on everybody. Always has, always will.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Crimson
Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.

And thats a FACT.

To be fair he said he was going to increase taxes only on people earning over $200,000.

Well people making over 200k aren't people now are they?


Huh? Are you addressing me? Do you actually think I was saying that? He said Kerry is going to increase taxes. I specified that he would raise taxes on PEOPLE earning over $200,000. Maybe I'm missing something.
 

lordtyranus

Banned
Aug 23, 2004
1,324
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Crimson
Kerry says he is going to increase taxes.

And thats a FACT.
To be fair he said he was going to increase taxes only on people earning over $200,000.
Since when have people like Crimson tried to be fair? Let's not kid ourselves.

How is raising taxes only on a specific group of Americans fair? If we need more revenue it should come from all citizens.
 
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