Please explain something to me...

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

A little OT, but I strongly oppose a taxpayer-funded "universal" health-care system. If anything, we need to get rid of insurance companies and HMOs as well in order to have a "free-market" of hospitals and doctors which "compete" for your money by providing health care at a competitive cost. We're all familiar with the insurance and HMO practices of billing as much as possible for a procedure or medicine, driving up costs for everybody. Don't even get me started about medical malpractice suits...

Gone are the days when a doctor just worried about treating his/her patients and didn't have to worry about paperwork up the arse.

We tried that system. It didn't work. People got sick...and died.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

A little OT, but I strongly oppose a taxpayer-funded "universal" health-care system. If anything, we need to get rid of insurance companies and HMOs as well in order to have a "free-market" of hospitals and doctors which "compete" for your money by providing health care at a competitive cost. We're all familiar with the insurance and HMO practices of billing as much as possible for a procedure or medicine, driving up costs for everybody. Don't even get me started about medical malpractice suits...

Gone are the days when a doctor just worried about treating his/her patients and didn't have to worry about paperwork up the arse.

We tried that system. It didn't work. People got sick...and died.

People get sick and die regardless. Furthermore, our much touted insurance and HMO plans don't do anything for the poorest segment of our population who are uninsured anyways (Yes, I was uninsured for most of my life. Lucky I never got anything serious). They do nothing but further drive up the already unaffordable cost of healthcare for those who can least afford to pay for it. In short, we need to get rid of this entitlement mentality as well as our health care bureaucracy so that we can bring health care costs down to an affordable level.

 

[mattpegher]

Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Rain, as a country we spend $2 trillion a year on healthcare.

Today our national budget is $2.9 trillion.

Now the government already pays a little less than %50 of all healthcare costs in this country, or about $1 trillion a year.
Now if we turn the whole system over to Washington we will have to come up with another $1 trillion a year in revenue to cover additional expenses.

So our national budget goes from $2.9 trillion to $3.9 trillion. A 33% increase, which would require a 33% increase in taxes to cover this additional cost.

Now we could see a reduction in overall spending in healthcare long term. But I am highly skeptical that this will happen. More likely we will see people who don?t see the doctor now for minor illnesses flooding the system every time they have a bad cold.

I'm not sure you could compare current spending on healthcare with what would be spent on a universal healthcare program. We spend almost twice as much money as a percentage of GDP on the healthcare industry compared with other industrialized countries.

I'm not saying universal healthcare is a good solution. I'm just saying it would not be the doomsday scenario many people put forth.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

How does this encourage illegal immigration?

Look at the public schools. The same thing will happen to health care.

Canada has universal health care, I bet millions of people are rushing there now.

Canada is on the border of a first world country, the U.S. is on the border with a 3rd world country. Do the math.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

I don't think anyone would vote for government regulation of the nutritional value of available food. One day in a hospital being served healthy low fat, low salt food and most patients are ready to kill the cook. Healthy alternatives have always been available but until recently required you to prepare them your self. As more americans choose healthy foods more corporations will provide them.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

I don't think anyone would vote for government regulation of the nutritional value of available food. One day in a hospital being served healthy low fat, low salt food and most patients are ready to kill the cook. Healthy alternatives have always been available but until recently required you to prepare them your self. As more americans choose healthy foods more corporations will provide them.

You're just making excuses for the corporations. They are poisoning Americans with high fat foods. Heart Disease is a major killer of Americans. We need to stop this now. First, the cigarette companies targeted our vulnerable teens. Now, food companies are targeting unhealthy americans. You can not blame food stamps for the blunders of the food industry.

 

[mattpegher]

I still believe that a fair market approach can decrease health care waste.
First, remove the group rate BS for health insurance. Why can I go to progressive.com and buy auto insurance but I need to be part of a group to get a good rate on health insurance. I understand group discounts but the 50% discount you get with the group is unfair and creates a relative monopoly against choice.
Secondly give the choice back to the consumer. I don't trust my employer to choose the best policy for me only the cheepest. I currently pay for health insurance without any employer input, but we are really just talking money here. Give it to me in my pay and let me choose how much and to whom I will pay the premiums. Or better yet, force all employers to provide a high deductable (5000) plan for catastrophic illness and allow the employee to purchase a secondary play of choice.

As for the poor, if we as a society are going to give them free health care then we need to change how we currently do this.
First the plan should pay the provider the same as if the patient had purchased the plan themselves. Remember my statement above Medicaid pays $6 for a $80 visit, so only desperate physician accept it.
Next some incentive needs to be in place to prevent abuse, ie going to the ER for a cold. You or I have a large copay or deductable that discourages us from going to the Er unless we need to.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

I don't think anyone would vote for government regulation of the nutritional value of available food. One day in a hospital being served healthy low fat, low salt food and most patients are ready to kill the cook. Healthy alternatives have always been available but until recently required you to prepare them your self. As more americans choose healthy foods more corporations will provide them.

You're just making excuses for the corporations. They are poisoning Americans with high fat foods. Heart Disease is a major killer of Americans. We need to stop this now. First, the cigarette companies targeted our vulnerable teens. Now, food companies are targeting unhealthy americans. You can not blame food stamps for the blunders of the food industry.

So the government should dictate what I eat as well? Are they going to tell me what to wear next? Or what music I should listen to?

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

I don't think anyone would vote for government regulation of the nutritional value of available food. One day in a hospital being served healthy low fat, low salt food and most patients are ready to kill the cook. Healthy alternatives have always been available but until recently required you to prepare them your self. As more americans choose healthy foods more corporations will provide them.

You're just making excuses for the corporations. They are poisoning Americans with high fat foods. Heart Disease is a major killer of Americans. We need to stop this now. First, the cigarette companies targeted our vulnerable teens. Now, food companies are targeting unhealthy americans. You can not blame food stamps for the blunders of the food industry.

So the government should dictate what I eat as well? Are they going to tell me what to wear next? Or what music I should listen to?

Yes, if the clothes you wear pose a risk to your life, the government should be able to take them off the market. Similarly, if, for some reason, a piece of music is harmful to you, the government should be able to take it off the market.

If there were no government regulation, contaminated food would seep into our country, people woud die by recklessly driving at 100 miles per hour on the highway, our medicines would be ridden with cheap sugar pills, and drugs would run rampant in our city streets.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

While you might be right about the insurance companies, I fail to see how those actually practicing medicine or developing new drugs will be hurt. A well run universal health care system works exactly like health care now, only instead of your employer or you yourself (or nobody at all) funding your health care, the government would do it. The simplest system would be where the government is basically the one and only health insurance company, where instead of making claims for coverage to your HMO or health care provider, you make claims to some department in the government. I see no reason this needs to fundamentally impact doctors or pharmaceutical companies.

Of course private insurance companies would be up a creek, at least under the system I suggested above. The workers probably wouldn't be for long, as SOMEONE needs to do their job, even if it's the government doing it, they still need actual folks to do the work. But what if "universal health care" was even further back than the government being the health insurance company...what if the government acted like your employer and just FUNDED your coverage? Federal government employees can chose from a number of different health insurance companies through their programs at their agencies, why not expand that principle to universal health care, EVERYONE gets to choose government funded coverage with the company of their choice. You still have free market health insurance companies and free market medical care, the money just comes from the government instead of employers or individuals.

A lot of opposition to universal health care seems to come from the idea that it HAS to be run like some Soviet Union program, but I don't see how that's a fundamental part of the idea. The problems with health coverage in this country aren't complex, a lot of people just don't have enough money, and employers that employ a lot of these people don't provide health coverage either. Government RUN health care wouldn't have a big advantage, but government FUNDED would solve this problem nicely.

I stopped reading after "well run healthcare system". If it's managed by our federal government, it's not going to be well run.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

While you might be right about the insurance companies, I fail to see how those actually practicing medicine or developing new drugs will be hurt. A well run universal health care system works exactly like health care now, only instead of your employer or you yourself (or nobody at all) funding your health care, the government would do it. The simplest system would be where the government is basically the one and only health insurance company, where instead of making claims for coverage to your HMO or health care provider, you make claims to some department in the government. I see no reason this needs to fundamentally impact doctors or pharmaceutical companies.

Of course private insurance companies would be up a creek, at least under the system I suggested above. The workers probably wouldn't be for long, as SOMEONE needs to do their job, even if it's the government doing it, they still need actual folks to do the work. But what if "universal health care" was even further back than the government being the health insurance company...what if the government acted like your employer and just FUNDED your coverage? Federal government employees can chose from a number of different health insurance companies through their programs at their agencies, why not expand that principle to universal health care, EVERYONE gets to choose government funded coverage with the company of their choice. You still have free market health insurance companies and free market medical care, the money just comes from the government instead of employers or individuals.

A lot of opposition to universal health care seems to come from the idea that it HAS to be run like some Soviet Union program, but I don't see how that's a fundamental part of the idea. The problems with health coverage in this country aren't complex, a lot of people just don't have enough money, and employers that employ a lot of these people don't provide health coverage either. Government RUN health care wouldn't have a big advantage, but government FUNDED would solve this problem nicely.

I stopped reading after "well run healthcare system". If it's managed by our federal government, it's not going to be well run.

Why not? Social Security is. Medicare is.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

Well it's the American public that is gladly poisoning their bodies with crap so it's their fault not the corporations. The corporations would not make food that was sh!tty for you if there were no market for it.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

Well it's the American public that is gladly poisoning their bodies with crap so it's their fault not the corporations. The corporations would not make food that was sh!tty for you if there were no market for it.

I guess you can make the same arguement for drugs, cigarettes, and other toxins. Lets make them legal, for all ages. If you take it, its your fault, am I right?

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

Well it's the American public that is gladly poisoning their bodies with crap so it's their fault not the corporations. The corporations would not make food that was sh!tty for you if there were no market for it.

I guess you can make the same arguement for drugs, cigarettes, and other toxins. Lets make them legal, for all ages. If you take it, its your fault, am I right?

Well not for all ages because children aren't mentally developed enough to make those types of decisions. But yes I am in support of legalizing drugs.

 

[ProfJohn]

We should stop calling it Universal Healthcare and instead call it what it really would be "Government Healthcare" that should doom it alone.

Your healthcare will now be brought to you by the same people who educate your children, build your roads and provide your social services.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

While you might be right about the insurance companies, I fail to see how those actually practicing medicine or developing new drugs will be hurt. A well run universal health care system works exactly like health care now, only instead of your employer or you yourself (or nobody at all) funding your health care, the government would do it. The simplest system would be where the government is basically the one and only health insurance company, where instead of making claims for coverage to your HMO or health care provider, you make claims to some department in the government. I see no reason this needs to fundamentally impact doctors or pharmaceutical companies.

Of course private insurance companies would be up a creek, at least under the system I suggested above. The workers probably wouldn't be for long, as SOMEONE needs to do their job, even if it's the government doing it, they still need actual folks to do the work. But what if "universal health care" was even further back than the government being the health insurance company...what if the government acted like your employer and just FUNDED your coverage? Federal government employees can chose from a number of different health insurance companies through their programs at their agencies, why not expand that principle to universal health care, EVERYONE gets to choose government funded coverage with the company of their choice. You still have free market health insurance companies and free market medical care, the money just comes from the government instead of employers or individuals.

A lot of opposition to universal health care seems to come from the idea that it HAS to be run like some Soviet Union program, but I don't see how that's a fundamental part of the idea. The problems with health coverage in this country aren't complex, a lot of people just don't have enough money, and employers that employ a lot of these people don't provide health coverage either. Government RUN health care wouldn't have a big advantage, but government FUNDED would solve this problem nicely.

I stopped reading after "well run healthcare system". If it's managed by our federal government, it's not going to be well run.

Why not? Social Security is. Medicare is.

The only thing SS has going for it is the baby boomers. Once they die off you will realize the full mismanagement of that program.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Since someone brought it up, food stamps are a good example of a government assistance program gone wrong. First even those people who use food stamps for food do not make the healthy or frugal decisions regarding their choices. Recent spotlights on the program show that most buy more expensive fat laden preprocessed food than healthy basic foods that need to be prepaired. Statistics also show that the average adult food stamp recipient can be rated as obese.

If you give someone something for free they generally waste it.

Guess who makes the fat laden foods? Corporations. We need to crack down on the corporations that continue to poison the bodies of our fellow Americans.

Well it's the American public that is gladly poisoning their bodies with crap so it's their fault not the corporations. The corporations would not make food that was sh!tty for you if there were no market for it.

I guess you can make the same arguement for drugs, cigarettes, and other toxins. Lets make them legal, for all ages. If you take it, its your fault, am I right?

For legal adults yes, the war on drugs, another massive govt failure.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

While you might be right about the insurance companies, I fail to see how those actually practicing medicine or developing new drugs will be hurt. A well run universal health care system works exactly like health care now, only instead of your employer or you yourself (or nobody at all) funding your health care, the government would do it. The simplest system would be where the government is basically the one and only health insurance company, where instead of making claims for coverage to your HMO or health care provider, you make claims to some department in the government. I see no reason this needs to fundamentally impact doctors or pharmaceutical companies.

Of course private insurance companies would be up a creek, at least under the system I suggested above. The workers probably wouldn't be for long, as SOMEONE needs to do their job, even if it's the government doing it, they still need actual folks to do the work. But what if "universal health care" was even further back than the government being the health insurance company...what if the government acted like your employer and just FUNDED your coverage? Federal government employees can chose from a number of different health insurance companies through their programs at their agencies, why not expand that principle to universal health care, EVERYONE gets to choose government funded coverage with the company of their choice. You still have free market health insurance companies and free market medical care, the money just comes from the government instead of employers or individuals.

A lot of opposition to universal health care seems to come from the idea that it HAS to be run like some Soviet Union program, but I don't see how that's a fundamental part of the idea. The problems with health coverage in this country aren't complex, a lot of people just don't have enough money, and employers that employ a lot of these people don't provide health coverage either. Government RUN health care wouldn't have a big advantage, but government FUNDED would solve this problem nicely.

I stopped reading after "well run healthcare system". If it's managed by our federal government, it's not going to be well run.

Why not? Social Security is. Medicare is.

If someone in the private sector were to run a massive retirement program the way social security is run, they would be thrown in jail, and be publicly lambasted by the media and federal prosecutors for defrauding helpless old people out of their retirement savings. It would make Ken Lay look like a choir boy by comparision. That should tell you how well run social security is.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We should stop calling it Universal Healthcare and instead call it what it really would be "Government Healthcare" that should doom it alone.

Your healthcare will now be brought to you by the same people who educate your children, build your roads and provide your social services.

Also they put out fires, fight crime, and fly jet fighters and such.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
I stopped reading after "well run healthcare system". If it's managed by our federal government, it's not going to be well run.

Why not? Social Security is. Medicare is.

Is this a serious statement? I really, really expected [sarcasm] tags.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Have a question for those of you who endorse a universal health care. We've had many discussions in here about the need for reform, the need to implement universal health care, regulation, etc. etc. However, I don't ever recall a discussion on how to implement this system. How do we as a country, intelligently implement a system where everyone receives coverage without destroying the economy? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and of course the insurance companies will obviously not be able to profit as they do. Are we going to put these companies out of business and all the people who work for them (esp the insurance companies)? Will doctors be willing to take pay cuts or will they only offer services for exclusive clients?

Canada initiated its healthcare system with the money it saved by staying out of the Vietnam War. IMO the States should cut their military budget to properly fund universal health care. The wars you guys get involved in do nothing but kill ordinarly Americans to make the military companies rich, along with the oil industry.

Here in Canada, doctors do quite well; they generally earn over $100,000/year. They are employed by the government and AFAIK they are not allowed to charge anyone for care.

Pharmacists are private sector workers employed by drug stores. They generally make good money, probably close to $100,000 as well.

We also have lower drug prices here in Canada; I'm not quite sure why. I know very little about the pharmaceutical industry.

The insurance companies *deserve* to go broke, just like the millions of Americans that have gone bankrupt to fund various surgeries. Here in Canada we have health insurance companies, but they only cover things like dentists, chiropractors, and optometrists (we have to pay for that stuff out of pocket). They also cover us for medication.

 

[dyna]

I would like to see changes to the current system before we jump into "universal." I wouldn't be against a free govt hospital here and there for those that don't have insurance. That might at least give the US some perspective of what universal healthcare will cost and we can decide from there if its actually viable or not.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: dyna
I would like to see changes to the current system before we jump into "universal." I wouldn't be against a free govt hospital here and there for those that don't have insurance. That might at least give the US some perspective of what universal healthcare will cost and we can decide from there if its actually viable or not.

Universal health care costs less than 1/2 as much in Canada as the non-universal system in the US. The two countries have very similar economies. Where is the evidence that a universal system would cost more? The infrastructure to do it exists; all that needs to happen is some beaurocratic change.